Pleeeeeeese help me respond, my blood is boiling and I have to reply.....

[rainy]

I know you guys say don't bother but it has been on going on Facebook and I want to make an intelligent response. Heeeeeelp!!!!

This what my old high school "friend" said after we got into a discussion about the DOJ sueing Arizona

:
"The drug violence has escaleted, multi-nationals are coming in through the border and Obama has not sued states the are breaking the law by giving sancuary to illegals, other states have similar laws and the DOJ has not sued them. As an American, if you think any of your arguments makes it okay for our government to sue the citiezens of a state for defending themselves that's okay to express because supposedly we are a free country. This is really a national security issue and if the Commander and Chief doesn't get it, we're all in trouble, because the terrorists and drug pushes aren't limiting this to Arizona and border states, they are just entering there. "

[tabatha]

1. Did Obama not say in one of his latest speeches

that they would be going after employers. Find the speech.

Also, why did Bush as C.I.C. not do anything?

Obama has sent more troops to the border than Bush.
Once again I have no reference. Need to google.

[treestar]

2. Turns out the claims about the violence on the AZ border are not true

Looking up crime statistics, you find crime has gone down there over the past ten years or so.

There is information about that somewhere on DU - I was reading it today - let's try to find it.

[treestar]

3. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x369744

[rainy]

7. I told her a few days ago that violence had gone down because she tried

to use that. Now she specifies "Drug" violence.

[kimmylavin]

17. There's stuff in there about drugs:

"Without question, illegal immigration and Mexican drug cartels are huge problems. And there is a real danger that the alarming and growing violence in Mexico could spread north. But beyond anecdotes -- the slaying of a rancher and the shooting of a sheriff's deputy -- there is no evidence that it has."

Two crimes. And they haven't even been connected to the subject at hand.

"Next, there's Brewer's claim that "the majority" of people immigrating illegally "are coming here and they're bringing drugs, and they're doing drop houses and they're extorting people and they're terrorizing the families. That is the truth." No, it isn't. The Border Patrol's Tucson Sector has apprehended more than 170,000 undocumented immigrants since Oct. 1, but only about 1,100 drug prosecutions have been filed in Arizona in that time."

Looks like .65% to me (and nowhere NEAR that "majority" she's talking about), but I was never that good at math.

I understand about your blood boiling... :)

[Berserker]

8. Which makes me

wonder about that statement.(Turns out the claims about the violence on the AZ border are not true)
If you were to sell drugs or any other type of illegal crime would you do it on the steps of the police station or would you try to get further away?
So that statement don't hold water for me.

[The Magistrate]

4. Try Here, Ma'am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/09/AR2010070902342.html

[flpoljunkie]

27. "But really the person who hasn't 'did' her job is Brewer."

Excellent! Thanks for the link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/09/AR2010070902342.html

[gateley]

5. As a DUer wrote the other day, answer a question with a question --

"what drug violence has escalated?' 'what states have similar laws?' -- innocently make him/her give you the proof. "what did Bush do regarding this national security problem that you feel Obama should continue?'

[rainy]

9. everything you say is right. I just want to make a very good, intelligent point.

I'm working on a response and you guys always give such good advice.

[gateley]

12. Man - these guys are the best! Right there with the links, references. Where

I'm like "I think I heard something about..." they know exactly what has been said/done. I love DU - it's the best resource!

Keep us posted!

[lisa58]

6. Try this article about how the Obama Administration is...

...auditing businesses to find out if they are hiring illegals...

Doing more than Bush, etc., etc., etc.


Audits, not raids mark U.S. immigration crackdown: report

http://www.news90.com/top-news/audits-not-raids-mark-u-s-immigration-crackdown-report/6272.

[rainy]

10. that page can't be found, do you have a better link?

[gateley]

13. Here:

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-50030920100710

[lisa58]

15. sorry about that - thanks gateley

[boppers]

11. I'd ask if they're a Native American, or if they're descended from "illegal" immigrants.

It's one or the other.

[Avalux]

14. Ugh. Can't get past the poor spelling and grammar.

It's difficult to reply to someone who can't write; an indication they probably won't be able to comprehend your reply.

[lisa58]

16. Really? Even though you know they are under stress...

...want to get a point across and need some assistance?

[polmaven]

26. The poor spelling and grammar

appear to be directly on the part of the person to whom the OP wanted to respond. It looked to me as if the OP had cut and pasted the comments.

[rainy]

18. Here's what I sent:

Drug violence has not escalated, see article below with statements by Arizona state Police. Obama is not suing the people, his DOJ is upholding the constitution by suing over one small part of the new law and that is the part that allows local police to ask for papers. Even the local police don't feel comfortable doing that. The boarder is now on this very day more safe than it has been in 20 years. You want to hate Obama because Faux News tells you he is bad but most of our politicians suck. They are corporate owned and operated. Even if in his heart Obama wanted to lean to the left he never could because the corporate owned media would destroy him. He has to do the bidding of the lobbyists who fight very hard to keep Immigration as it is for cheep labor for the big companies. That is why Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama won't do much about Immigration. Can't you see that? It's all about a big corporate run country. Me you all of us should be upset over that. We should stop listening to the mouth pieces that keep us dumb and hating each other so that the corporations can run our country into the ground, rape our national treasure and send our sons and daughters off to fight to steal natural resources from other countries and kill innocent citizens. Remind me again why we invaded Iraq???? Paul Wolfowitz said it was for oil but that the american people would not agree to go to war over that so they agreed to say it was for WMD. We all know how that turned out
Here's the article about the drug violence:
NOGALES, Ariz. - Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez shakes his head and smiles when he hears politicians and pundits declaring that Mexican cartel violence is overrunning his Arizona border town.

"We have not, thank God, witnessed any spillover violence from Mexico," Bermudez says emphatically. "You can look at the crime stats. I think Nogales, Arizona, is one of the safest places to live in all of America."

FBI Uniform Crime Reports and statistics provided by police agencies, in fact, show that the crime rates in Nogales, Douglas, Yuma and other Arizona border towns have remained essentially flat for the past decade, even as drug-related violence has spiraled out of control on the other side of the international line. Statewide, rates of violent crime also are down.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/02/20100502arizona-border-violence-mexico.html#ixzz0tKgJYzwC

[Orsino]

19. Your friend is a lazy coward, who belies what he's told by rich assholes. n/t

[Mz Pip]

20. This just started 18 months ago?

All the drug violence, the drug smuggling, the 11 million illegals did not just begin on Jan 20, 2009. Guess Bush didn't get it either.

[southernyankeebelle]

21. Tell him to stop watching Fox news. Nuff said.

[Raine1967]

22. If they are coming with drugs--- who are buying those drugs?

it's a circular red herring type argument.

They aren't going to bring drugs if there is no black market for them, and last time I checked -- there is a pretty big black market for them.

Seriously -- if there was no job market for people to come across the border for -- well, you know.... They might not come. It's not just an illegal employer thing.

[LiberalFighter]

23. First major point about your friend. She is seriously uneducated and probably graduated at...

the bottom of her class.

Does she know what a multi-national is considered? The term multi-national is used in the following context: corporations, military force, or state. Not an individual. BUT if she is trying to apply it to persons that would defeat her point. Because the most logical usage would be for persons to have dual citizenships. Of which the USA would be one possibility.

Ask her if she knows what other states have similar laws or who the hell is telling her this. Too many times people make general statements on the spur of the moment without any facts to back it up. That is what Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly and their buddies do all the time. Those that use radio as their medium are able to get away with it easier because they don't have to provide visual documentation. And when they do provide facts how many are in the situation that they can drop everything and check it out? So much easier to just believe them and let it go.

[Vinca]

24. You might ask this dim bulb if Arizona plans to set up concentration camps

and stockpile all the people they pick up forever since they are not authorized by the Constitution to deport them.

[timo]

25. ????

"Obama has not sued states the are breaking the law by giving sancuary to illegals, other states have similar laws and the DOJ has not sued them."

I havent heard anyone talk about this.

[rainy]

28. ha ha, here's what she said next:

"See the signs the FED posted along the border. There is much proof that drug violence and terrorists do use that border. If you think this is acceptable and that the DOJ cherry picking enforcemen for politial gain and costing the state of Arizona money in a lawsuit that can be used for enforcement and call that good government, you have plenty of company, which is really a sad statement about our country. "



and here's what I said: Good Government???? How has Obama's predecessors protected that border? You have missed everything I have said. Are you reading my posts. The issue with DOJ suing is ONLY over ONE point in the law and that is the point where local police officers have to ask for papers. THAT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL CAN YOU HEAR ME?????? The DOJ is suing over a constitutional issue which is their job. Checking for papers has nothing to do with protecting the border. If you would read my post you would see the evidence that the border is actually much safer now then in 20 years but politicians, congress not the President has to fix the border and they wont because they are bought and paid for by the corps who benefit from the CHEEP LABOR. GET IT????????

I didn't mean to yell I was just fed up.