Does Joe Biden Win or Lose in Obama Afghanistan Review?

[babylonsister]

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2009/12/does_joe_biden/

Does Joe Biden Win or Lose in Obama Afghanistan Review?
Steve Clemons


From what we know of Joe Biden's "skunk at the White House picnic" skepticism of increasing troop deployments to Afghanistan during President Obama's three month strategy review process, it would appear -- on the surface -- that Biden didn't come up with the winning hand.

After all, Obama is committing to sending 30,000 more US troops next year on top of the 68,000 there now. Doesn't sound like the Biden plan.

Or does it?

Scratching beneath the surface, the fact is that a lot of the new framing and focus -- and the so-called exit horizon -- are all solidly Biden.

Given what I have seen of the speech leaks thus far, Joe Biden deserves significant credit for key parts of the President's plan and also gave President Obama what he wanted through this process -- a public airing of civil debate and heterodoxy of thought that came smack dab up to President Obama's desk.

Biden played his advisor-in-chief role and worked vigorously for a "narrowing" of America's objectives and commitments in Afghanistan.

According to a senior White House source, Vice President Biden believes that the review led by the President has produced a sound strategy -- but that the Vice President's contributions helped shape clear, narrow and achievable goals for Afghanistan: denying Al Qaeda sanctuary, disrupting the Taliban so it can't topple the government, and accelerating transition to Afghan responsibility for their own security and governance.

Biden has helped choke down the nation building script and encouraged that the surge Obama will outline not be open-ended.

According to this senior White House official, "the strategy calls for a commitment of additional resources up front, but it also tells American people how and when this ends."

The how and when it ends part is very much Bidenesque.

[knightinwhitesatin]

1. Joe Biden

goes right on trucking, the American people lose.

[babylonsister]

2. Yea, compared to darth cheney, he really sucks. nt

[knightinwhitesatin]

4. That doesn't even make sense

Biden does not win or lose anything.

The families of soldiers who die from this folly lose a lot. Keep your eye on the ball please.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[knightinwhitesatin]

9. I wasn't here then

but if you must know, the war in Iraq is a gross lie and misuse of American power. When I arrived in Iraq I was gung-ho to fight people who were a danger to our country. On my first tour I realized that there were a lot of good people in Iraq and only some bad people and I wanted to fight the bad people. I realized bush lied us into that war, but we were there and we should stay to help.

On my second tour I realized that the Iraqis did not want our help and that the lie that was sold to the American people was even worse than I thought because people were being asked to support a lie that was killing innocent Iraqis for no good reason other than Shrub's idea of somehow him being remembered throughout history as the great white liberator of the arabs.

On my third tour when my best friend in the world died in an IED blast not 50 feet from me, I came to hate the war, I came to hate Bush and Cheney and every other God Damn neocon that sold that pile of shit to the American people. I reenlisted in 2008 when Obama was making his run because I believed with all my heart that once he was sworn in (I knew he was going to win, I have faith in the American people every once in a while) he would see the folly of both wars and get us out. He is SLOWLY doing the right thing in Iraq but he is now escalating the war in Afghanistan based on reports from PETRAEUS and MCCHRYSTAL, they are liars.......So now I am getting out when this enlistment is over. I will never work, donate to, or canvas for any Democrat that supported this surge. If they want to sleep at night while 30,000 more americans are going into the meat grinder. Fuck them. My time is better spent on the Democrats who know war is a folly, not the ones that enable more of it.

PS If I ever see Bush once I am out of uniform I am going to walk up to him, show him a picture of my dead friend and his wife and ask him, was his life worth it you piece of crap?

[dgibby]

14. Thank you for your service,

and thank you for telling your story. I am deeply sorry about your friend and all the others who have died in these wars.

I went into the Navy in'69 as an RN. I dare anyone to go to a military or VA hospital and still support war.: :cry:

Stay safe, I'm pulling for you.:hug:

[frylock]

18. welcome aboard..

i have a brother in the Corp and i'm sickened and worried at the thought of him being sent back.

[wryter2000]

33. I'm so sorry about your friend

Of course, everyone who died -- American soldier or Iraqi civilian -- was someone's friend/father/mother/son/daughter.

I hope some day you get to confront Bush. If you do, please get a picture somehow so we can all see it.

:patriot:

[frylock]

17. really?!

you really should delete this post and to try save a little face.

[babylonsister]

19. Thanks for your concern. Not. nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

30. The person you are insulting is a veteran of the Iraq war.

Read down.

And then , if you could,, consider taking it back.

Civility is never a bad thing.

[Clio the Leo]

3. Joe Biden

.... is a sexy man beast and we're lucking to have him living above Cheney's bunker.

[vaberella]

16. I'm no Biden Babe for nothing!! ^_^ n/t

[xultar]

6. Joe won.

[timeforpeace]

29. Whatever. The only thing that matters is that the country lost.

[xultar]

35. I told y'all Obama and Hillary were basically the same and all I got was no Obama is

A progressive. So we got fucking snickered cuz no one wanted to believe reality they chose to believe a concocted brand. So as u said, whatever.

[smalll]

7. He's OBAMA's Vice-President -- if things go well with this surge,

then Joe, and Obama, and the nation, and the party, will "win."

If things go badly, Obama, the nation, the party -- and Joe -- will "lose."

Any other questions?

[rwheeler31]

8. Joe gets it.

[ClarkUSA]

10. I was hoping that Pres. Obama would listen to Biden rather than Hillary's pro-McChrystal advice.

One former Senator learned from their FUBAR IWR vote, the other one never did.

[jillan]

11. I was hoping for that too.

[ClarkUSA]

13. I'm glad we both got our hopes answered.

:)

[freddie mertz]

32. Um, we didn't.

[BlooInBloo]

37. Oooh I see what you did.

And I lol'd.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. I doubt he extensively consulted with Secretary Clinton

No offense to her, as she has done a magnificent job representing the country abroad and running her department (from what I've heard from career state people) but she is not an expert in foreign policy. She sits in on the meetings no doubt (when she's not out of the country) but I doubt she is one of the key players in this debate.

[girl_interrupted]

24. I doubt it too

But you know some people..they always have to find someone else to take the blame.

[ClarkUSA]

26. After she sided w/McChrystal's "80K troop escalation for 10 more years" advice he may have tuned out

I know I would have. Perhaps that's why she was sent on so many trips during the time this decision was made. ;)

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Do you have a source for that claim?

[girl_interrupted]

22. Aww poor Obama can't do anything without Hillary's advice?

Hiding behind Hillary's skirts again? Not man enough to stand up to her? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound? And what you make Obama look like in the process? Obama must listen to Hillary and not Biden? Because why? He can't make his own decisions?

Dude, you are beyond lame.

[ClarkUSA]

25. It's obvious that your reading comprehension is as execrable as your logic.

<<Do you have any idea how stupid you sound? >>

Ah, the irony. :rofl:

[babylonsister]

23. He was listened to, and that's a good thing. nt

[jillan]

12. K & R for Biden.

[Cha]

15. My friend, who taught poli-sci for decades,

and is very much still into politics told me tonight, as we had our roundup discussion at my job where she was volunteering, that Joe Biden is one the most working VPs ever.

We didn't think cheney counted bc wasn't he just really the acting pres(sic)?

[ClarkUSA]

27. Pres. Obama made the best choice for VP, hands down.

:fistbump:

[freddie mertz]

31. Seems like Joe did his best.

Maybe I should have supported him in the primary after all.

[Jennicut]

34. That is how I feel. He did his best and gave the best advice he could.

[ShortnFiery]

36. We all LOSE but only the troops, insurgents and innocents in Afghanistan die for MIC profits.

Afghanistan = Looting = War Profiteering = Trillion dollars = Nothing MORE, nothing LESS. :grr:

Does anyone HONESTLY BELIEVE that bombing people who had NOTHING to do with 9/11 (Taliban) and killing thousands of innocents in the crossfire will KEEP AMERICANS SAFER? REALLY?!?