I don't support War.......

[FrenchieCat]

But I do support President Obama's Exit Plan out of Afghanistan.

I hate War, and marched against the Iraq War twice...
and I didn't even vote for the Afghanistan war indirectly
or directly, because even my Representative didn't vote for it,
and she was the only one.


What is unfortunate for Barack Obama is that
the Afghanistan War had already started before he got there....

So now that he is going to extricate us out of there,
I will support him in doing just that,
in the way that he has determined,
cause that IS what I voted for.

[FSogol]

1. k & r same here. n/t

[HughMoran]

2. Well, you're a "more war fan" then

Yes, that's what anybody who's against war is called if they don't throw a mental fit and link Obama to Palin, Lieberman and, or course, Bush.

[Soylent Brice]

97. hello. i would like to kindly ask that

people would please realize that there are some of us here that do not support war, and are not likening Obama to *, and the like.

i would also like to ask that people also see that it is possible that those who are against the Afghan escalation are not bashing Obama.

i can't speak for everyone, but for me this situation is like seeing a good president make a bad decision. i'm disappointed.

please take that into consideration and try not to broad brush all of us into the sentiment you have for those speaking out for peace.

i don't think those who are supporting the president are "more war fan(s)". i think it's DUers who have decided to support the president in all the decisions he makes so that someone has his back. i understand that concept. i, personally, just can't bring myself to support the president on this issue. i am not a single issue voter, and i do support the president on many other things he has done.

i just hope that others understand this. it is innate in my being to not support war. that's me, and that's a lot of other DUers. granted there are those that are saying the things you mentioned. again, i just kindly ask you and others to remember not to lump everyone together. we are still individuals, with individual opinions, no matter how similar they may appear at first glance.

thank you! :)

[dionysus]

99. well, obviously there's a huge difference between you and the guy saying he's a war criminal.

and that kind of thing is being said by quite a few.

[Soylent Brice]

101. people are also angry. angry people say things they regret, and also

have difficulty expressing their true feelings.

i imagine their is a little anger and frustration coming from boths sides on this issue.

[HughMoran]

104. I agree - making broad-brush attacks is no way to make an argument

Clearly my snark (actual words used by a DUer) was based on the overwhelming number of broad-brush attacks against anybody who is merely ambivalent to the latest continuation of the build-up of troops started when Obama entered office.

I am glad you are not with the broad-brush folks - neither am I. I'm certainly not a supporter of war and I've said repeatedly that this mission is doomed to fail. I'd be more than happy to discuss our differences in a reasonable and friendly manner - nothing would please me more.

BTW, the recent decision (see Nov. '09) is not out-of-line with what he's been doing since getting into office:

[Soylent Brice]

106. i've noticed the incrmental increases since february.

was not okay with it then. not okay with this latest either.

i think for me this one was the last straw.
i'm glad you replied back. thank you for clarifying!

[mr_show_time]

3. Ah

I must say that this is the first time I meet someone that claims to hate war, yet uses scare tactics -- i.e. terrorist attacks on New York City -- if we don't go along with the Leader.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Sorry that you were offended, but It was a very real scenario.........

that The Republicans would not hesitate in "using",
and enough suckers would buy it....
which was the exact point of my OP......
which is why it hit a nerve, obviously.

I'm not giving up on the Democratic Agenda
because of a war that has been going on
for 8 years, that everyone and their mama voted for,
just so you can feel righteous.

The issue is way too complicated for you to comment,
obviously....since attacking me appears to be your only real calling
here.

[mr_show_time]

13. Actually

I lost all respect for you when I read that thread, FrenchieCat. It was uncalled for and juvenile. One of the reasons I despise Republicans is that they don't hesitate to exploit the victims of 9/11 to further their agenda. You resorted to that tactic nonetheless. And why? Just to garner support for Obama's Afghan plan.

[Cha]

14. Yeah, it's way over his head.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patrice]

23. How do you know YOU aren't blind? Deaf? Insensate?

Prove you aren't.

[mr_show_time]

27. Huh?

You want me to prove that I don't follow Obama blindly? Just read my previous posts. Case closed.

[patrice]

49. No, bright one, prove that you don't blindly attack.

Prove that there is nothing that you do not see, understand, hear, feel and, oh by the way, if you ARE blind/deaf/insensate how can you know you what it is that you don't see/hear/feel?

[Cha]

34. He can't prove anything..just project onto others.

[Cha]

25. Yeah, it's over your head.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mr_show_time]

44. Yawn.

[patrice]

50. There's some substantive commentary for us. You're just showing more and more what your are.

[BlueCaliDem]

29. Dear "leader"??? That's what reichwingers call Pres. Obama

Yeah, being a blind PRESIDENT Obama h8er, of course you are offended.

It's a two-edge sword.

[mr_show_time]

32. Yeah, I hate Obama so much

I voted for him, and I'll probably vote for him against any Republican.

Of course, any criticism of Obama makes one an "Obama hater," right?

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, sweetie.

[BlueCaliDem]

100. Accepting reality is the first step towards healing

and confession is good for the soul.

I've got nothing against constructive criticism of President Obama or any other Democrat, but when you start posting chit like "leader", you lose all credibility when you claim you've voted for him.

I don't drink kool-aid, and I won't start by drinking yours... Sweetie.

[dionysus]

102. pssst...use of the words dear leader and koolaid give you away.

try and remember that for your next incarnation.

[Oregone]

4. The "exit plan" is a carrot for the morons

The only thing you know thats going to happen now is an escalation

[babylonsister]

28. Your anti-Obama rhetoric is getting old. nt

[Cha]

36. No, that's the only thing you know..others are more knowledgeable.

[SwampG8r]

38. you sir

are the only one so far that gets that simple point
we are promised the escalation and that promise will be fulfilled
we are also promised the with-drawl but we must all be experienced enough to understand that the withdrawal will only happen if the escalation is successfull
no president wants to have a war loss as part of his resume
and its easier to keep the fighting going if it acts as a political expedient

lets all remember bush made the war and then used it to justify itself for 6 1/2 years
proving patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel

[jeanpalmer]

82. Like Obama said

"I have the gift of speech."

[still_one]

5. I don't support it, but I tell what, I do believe he should be given a chance

I know, that is screwed up logic, but he won the election, and he at least deserves that chance.

Gee, they gave bush an 8 year chance, we will know in two years whether the fates are kind

[dgibby]

11. What about the 30,000 more troops he's sending over there?

Don't they get a chance?

[still_one]

73. The 30000 had a choice, the Afghan people are the ones who don't have a choice, and that is

where your argument should be focused

[CTLawGuy]

90. and if we were to leave now,

what would become of the Afghan people? You do know their government is currently incapable of providing basic law and order, right? They don't call Karzai the "Mayor of Kabul" for nothing. Part of the purpose of the strategy is to more quickly train the Afghan forces to actually provide their own security so that when we leave, it isn't an even bigger bloodbath.

[still_one]

105. I am very skeptical about the whole affair. The "training" is always the excuse why we can't leave

we did the same thing in Nam, and I suspect it will be a long painful experience here also

Of course I hope not. I sincerely hope we are successful, and that I am wrong, and hope that I am pleasantly surprised

[Cha]

46. bush was on a "mission from god" when he abandoned

Afghanistan and bombed Iraq on March 20, 2003. And, in the process he aided and abetted the taliban and al qaeda in Afghanistan and fomented more terrorists in Iraq.

[still_one]

74. You don't have an argument from me. From the start I didn't believe we needed to

invade Afghanistan to get bin laden, and I was never for the invasion of Iraq, under both bush's, both times

[rwheeler31]

7. I do not support this occupation, I know this President

is smarter than I am. I want him to be correct.

[patrice]

8. The idea that our ideas and values exist in somekind of vacuum protected

by their rectitude and righteousness from the collective context in which we live is as dysfunctional as those whom we oppose.

[havocmom]

9. Yeah, what patrice said!

K&R

[JeffR]

26. Well said, patrice

[patrice]

31. Yeah, all you gotta do is be "right" then what happens after that is everyone else's fault.

(just in case) :sarcasm:

[JeffR]

62. ! !

:patriot:

[Cha]

37. I like the way you

expressed that, patrice.

[patrice]

40. I'm old. I speak from experience. Oh yeah . . . thanks!

[janx]

61. George Orwell is rolling in his grave. n/t

[arcadian]

10. So... you're for war then.

Essentially.

[FrenchieCat]

15. The war is already there......

really.

[patrice]

20. Idealism is such a cop out.

Everything tied up in pretty, tidy, false dichotomies. Done. No need to live in the real world. No need to live values in the harshest and most contradictory of environments. No need to make them real in a real world. Just go around and recruit others to get a buzz on about ________________ and then just buzz, buzz, buzzzz away until Reality suddenly reminds you in some rather decidedly un-tidy way, usually, that you aren't God.

[Jakes Progress]

12. In sneaky Jon Lovitz voice:

"Yeah. Yeah. That's the ticket. We'll call it a....We'll call it an exit. Yeah. That's it. An exit."

[FrenchieCat]

16. President Obama request that you hold him accountable

if he doesn't follow through....

So no, it ain't a hoodwink.
Sorry.

[Jakes Progress]

18. "Yeah. We'll call it a measure of accountability.

That's the ticket."

[mvd]

45. I really hope the plan works. I have my doubts, and..

if the President stays beyond 2011, I do think he should be held accountable. He has shown at least a wlllingness to adapt, have strategy, and deliberate - something we didn't have before under Bush.

[JohnnyLib2]

19. Rec for your willingness to stand up and speak up.

There had to be some sort of plan and it was inevitably going to be controversial. So, here we are and some of reaction will fade soon.

I don't think the plan will work, but on we go. I'll probably work the local D activities in 2010 and can't foresee, at this point, what mixture of questions and comments might be heard then.

Steady as she goes.....

[patrice]

39. The point is that there IS a plan with a DEADLNE. A real plan. The accountability is up to us.

Or would you all just rather yell negative shit on Obama on this board and then just stand back and cheer his failure and say I told you so when the chips are down?

You don't have to answer that question; I think I already know.

[FrenchieCat]

52. JohnnyLib2 was quite gracious in his response, I thought.......

Maybe you meant this as a reply to a harsher poster?

(BTW, I agree about the fact that President Obama
had to get us out of Afghanistan, and he has to try
the best way he knows how (based on how fucked up it is)
before doing so).

[patrice]

55. Yes, that was a generic "you". Sorry, JohnnyLib2!!

:blush:

[JohnnyLib2]

76. Just woke up. We're good.

[bigjohn16]

21. With a plan like this I may get on board.

I've already heard Secretary Clinton, and Gates hedge on the "exit" date. I'm not willing to support throwing more blood and treasure on a mission that history shows us has little chance of success.

[FrenchieCat]

22. I respect your choice to not support an exit plan

even if the exit date only lists July, and not the day or the hour....
Even if it gets held up a month or so,
after 8 years of unending war,
I will go with what this President said
that he would do.

your big drawing doesn't really solve anything.
Sorry.

[bigjohn16]

41. It's not my drawing. It's from the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and is the official strategy.

I don't just take the President's words on faith 8 years of Bush made sure of that. His own cabinet was back tracking less than 24 hours later when pushed on the issue. July 2011 is there to placate the left and most aren't buying it.

[FrenchieCat]

43. I disagree.

As 18 months is not far enough away for that to work.

[bigjohn16]

47. That's why when December 2010 comes around...

and the reassessment shows the plan isn't working we'll get another speech saying why we need to give it more time to work. I just hope they don't want more troops to go along with it.

[FrenchieCat]

48. We shall see.

It ain't like we are going anywhere.....
considering it's been 8 years already.

[bigjohn16]

51. The lives lost aren't worth it.

Sadly that number can only go up.

[FrenchieCat]

53. We cannot predict the future.....

We really do not know how many might die.

Had I been speaking to you on 9/10....
I would have laughted if you told me that
some folks hated us enough to kill civilians
here in this country......
I would have been wrong.

[bigjohn16]

56. Use 9/11 all you want to justify your agenda but I find it disgusting. nt

[FrenchieCat]

58. I'm allowed to talk about 9/11.....

just because Bush pimped it,
and fucked the shit out of it,
he may own it, cause he caused it,
but the tragedy ain't his alone.

For you to punish Americans,
and act like 9/11 is a curse word,
is what is quite creepy.

That's the part you don't get.

[bigjohn16]

60. You're using 9/11 to justify President Obama's escalation.

You aren't just "talking" about it.

[FrenchieCat]

65. I am talking about it.

And I have that right.

You don't get it.

You cannot say on the one hand you are a liberal,
and then tell me what I can and cannot say.

It doesn't work.

[bigjohn16]

66. I didn't tell you what you could or couldn't say.

I said it disgusted me.

[FrenchieCat]

67. But you have already said that many times.......

It's getting as tiring as me saying 9/11.

[knightinwhitesatin]

117. We don't know how many more will die

what we do know is that President Obama has guaranteed that 30,000 Americans who originally were not going to be in Afghanistan now are at a risk for death in combat that many of them were not facing before.

Look you can spin this 8 ways from Sunday and say you hate war, etc............ At the end of the day you are giving support to a policy that will kill many Americans and many more innocent Afghanis and you are doing it from the safety of your living room. Meanwhile 30,000 families are getting ready to say goodbye to their loved ones for perhaps the last time based on the lies of people like Petraeus and Mcchrystal. And YOU ARE SUPPORTING THIS. YOU are supporting more war, hem and haw anyway you want, YOU are supporting more needless death.

[Orsino]

110. "They're still here!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZVQ2RJ9tLk

I'm glad to hear of an eventual beginning of an exit, despite the equivocating as the Administration members get their talking points in order. I see nothing to celebrate just yet.

[KakistocracyHater]

24. kill the war

*

[FrenchieCat]

35. Or try to fix it and then leave.

I support my vote.

[KakistocracyHater]

77. like how Enron fixed what they did to California? & how the banksters

........nevermind. I do not hear anything about "responsibility" re: America.

[FrenchieCat]

78. What does Enron have to do with Obama...?

He fucking had to wear a flagpin to even get elected,
and he and his wife have been shown as monkeys,
and even had his 8 and 11 year old kids fucking dogged!

Think about that shit!

This man ain't against what is right.
He is doing what he believes is right,
and what he has always said he would do.....
and if you voted for him, you already know that.....

and now, he is getting kicked in the butt for it.

That's some dumb shit on our part, far as I'm concerned.

Nobody has to be Pro-War to support what he is doing now,
they just have to know that he will do the best that he can,
and I believe that his best is the most realistic thing to do, considering.

[KakistocracyHater]

108. Enron is just 1 corporation that helped knock America down

the state of America is what I am talking about, the person talked of U.S. responsibility to "rebuild" Afghanistan. I argued that we can't, we didn't have fraud-prevention measures in place under Bush, it's been 8 years already, Berlin Food Drop is best. We can't make them 'obey' & it's stupid to try; we can't fix what wasn't there to begin with. Kill the war.

[ClassWarrior]

54. Unrecs?? Really?...

:eyes:

NGU.

[FrenchieCat]

57. Only one voice can be heard,

as long as it isn't mine.

It is the new way.

[ClassWarrior]

59. We won't let that happen, French.

:pals:

NGU.

[FrenchieCat]

64. Thanks!

:hug:

[NYC_SKP]

63. K and R.

I'm a proud cheerleader or whatever they want to call me.

Thanks.

Recommended.

[kid a]

68. K&R

[grasswire]

69. how do you ask a soldier to be the last one to die for a lie, Frenchie? (eom)

[FrenchieCat]

70. I don't. They enlist.

[girl_interrupted]

72. Then Obama asks them to die

[FrenchieCat]

79. I have to let you go.

You obviously didn't vote for the man.
There is no way.

[Orsino]

111. One cannot honestly claim to support a plan for war...

...without accepting a bit of responsibility for the resulting death and misery.

[ipaint]

71. A second escalation in a 8 year old war we can't win

is not an exit strategy.

[FrenchieCat]

75. That's what you say.......

[Raine]

80. I'm sending President Obama positive

thoughts that this plan succeeds.

[FrenchieCat]

86. I am too. For the good of this Nation and that part of the world,

it needs to succeeds well enough for us to leave.
That's what I'm hoping for.

[cali]

81. It is not, primarily or even secondarily an exit plan, despite your Orwellian attempt

to deem it as such. It's an escalation. You support it, so yeah, you're supporting this war. I wish you could be honest about it.

[jeanpalmer]

83. It was just doubletalk

of the type that is becoming his trademark. I wonder if he ever loses sleep at night thinking about how he has tricked us.

[FrenchieCat]

85. Tricked you my ass.

That's the kind of dishonesty that glows in the dark.
Such utter bullshit.

[jeanpalmer]

87. doubletalk and self delusion

of the type that can turn an escalation into a withdrawal.

[FrenchieCat]

88. Better than the type that refuses to hear what is being said.......

and then have the nerves to talk about being tricked.
You fucking tricked yourself.
How does it feel to have been so full of self delusion,
you didn't even have a clue as to what was being said?
Was it good to you?

[jeanpalmer]

89. I understood right away what was being said

Obama was escalating but had to throw a bone to the true believers so they could rationalize an increase in soldiers as a decrease. And of course they bit into it hook, line and sinker. Sending 30,000 soldiers over there and bringing 20,000 home would not be a withdrawal. There would still be a net escalation of 10,000 soldiers. But the way Mullen and Jones are talking, the withdrawal will be dependent on facts on the ground and might amount to "very few" soldiers. Or how about none?

[FrenchieCat]

84. I'm not supporting this war, It's been going on too long for me to all of the sudden support it.

I've tolerated, yes, for 8 years,
just like most people on this board,
if they would be honest.
And yes, it is an escalation...(for Bush, use Surge),
but I already knew that was going to happen.....
and I still voted for the man,
so I was quite more fucking honest than the folks
who can't seem to believe it, and are calling betrayal and shit.

At the end of the day,
It's not like you get to tell me what I believe,
but thank you anyways.
:hi:

[CTLawGuy]

91. actually it is

but you refuse to believe so. The point of the "escalation," as you call it, is to FACILITATE the exit plan by creating conditions that allow our safe exit.

But I guess next you will say, without evidence, that Obama is lying about the exit plan.

[cali]

95. look, you can call a huge escalation in forces- and it is huge

a withdrawal plan until you're blue in the face, but it won't change the facts that it's a build up and escalation, first and foremost. And no, I don't think Obama is lying. I think, however, he's making a big and tragic mistake.

You're the one doing the twisting.

[tkmorris]

92. Yes you do

You are just really good at self deception.

[FrenchieCat]

93. That's what I say about those who are forcing themselves to feel deceived

for three years he told us what he would do.
and then he was elected, and now he's doing it.

You tolerated this War for 8 years,
cause I know your ass wasn't out there protesting
the Afghanistan War....
and if you were, it was you and a handful, not more.

If you voted for Barack Obama,
then you deceived yourself.....
If you didn't vote for him,
than I've got another word for you.

[HopeOverFear]

96. You go, girl! Tell them fools off

:toast:

[MadHound]

94. What is Obama's exit plan out of Afghanistan?

Yeah, he is beginning troop withdraw in the summer of eleven, but when will he finish it?

And once we're out of Afghanistan, where will we go next. Given the hints dropped in the speech the other night, we could wind up with war forever and ever, amen, following Al Qaeda into Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, wherever.

We need to get out now, at this juncture, while we still can.

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. +1

[dionysus]

103. i don't see obama starting any new wars. are you so jaded that you do?

people here don't seem to realize he's not george bush.

i disagree with this increase but i'm not yet so jaded to believe he isn't operating with good intentions

[MadHound]

113. Actually it seems as though he's indicating that he would do just that, according to his speech

"Now, let me be clear: none of this will be easy. The struggle against violent extremism will not be finished quickly, and it extends well beyond Afghanistan and Pakistan. It will be an enduring test of our free society, and our leadership in the world. And unlike the great power conflicts and clear lines of division that defined the 20th century, our effort will involve disorderly regions, failed states, diffuse enemies."

So as a result, America will have to show our strength in the way that we end wars and prevent conflict. We will have to be nimble and precise in our use of military power. Where al Qaeda and its allies attempt to establish a foothold -- whether in Somalia or Yemen or elsewhere -- they must be confronted by growing pressure and strong partnerships."

War forever and ever, amen,

Jaded, yes, cynical, yes. Sadly my government outdoes my cynicism with great regularity. This seems to be another case of that.

[Bluerthanblue]

107. I agree Frenchie- thanks for

saying this.

I was against both wars from the start- I've marched, vigiled, written letters, made phone calls, lost friends and family relationships because of my stand, yet I still support the President because I genuinely believe he is working to get us out of there.

k&r

:hi:

[Cha]

109. Hi Bluerthanblue~

Here's a site that is dedicated to helping our Soldiers who are in harm's way.

http://www.anysoldier.com/

[Bluerthanblue]

122. thanks Cha,

I just spent quite a while looking there and have bookmarked it. You've probably already posted this as a separate thread on it's own, it might be good to repeat it. Especially now.

I appreciate your pointing me there.

:hi:

[Cha]

123. No, I haven't but I've

been posting it around to people who would appreciate it.

:hi:Bluest

[Bluenorthwest]

112. You admit you did not vote until 2000, but still you should know

that in addition to your Rep in the House, you have two Senators. Each of them voted for the Afghanistan incursion. So you whole claim of your votes not going toward it is vapid. It has a DiFi shaped hole and a Boxer sized gap.
It is very sad what you are doing. Making predictions that others must bear out in blood, as if that blood is already spilled and the victory won.
You are wrong about who represents you with their war votes, and you are wrong about the exit. It is very unwise to declare as finished that which is not started and is of great difficulty.
And just as today is not victory day, it is not the past. So while you may not have previously supported war, you are doing so in the present moment. With words, not with actions of course. With other people's loved ones, not yours, of course.
If you favor the escalation, and wish to say so that is just fine. It is not just fine to claim as won a victory for which you and yours will not be fighting. Say you wish them well, that you will be constantly thinking or praying for them. But to call going in an exit is very disrespectful to those who will be going to a war zone in our stead.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

114. So if you only support the war because of our extrication in 2011

Do you still support it today?

No Afghanistan withdrawal in 2011'

Mark Mardell | 17:56 UK time, Friday, 4 December 2009

The US won't pull out of Afghanistan in 2011.

President Obama's top national security adviser, who has played a key part in designing the new Afghanistan and Pakistan strategy, has been trying to clear up some confusion about the exit strategy.

Gen James Jones told me that "in no manner, shape or form" would the US withdraw from Afghanistan in 2011.


In his speech on Tuesday, President Obama for the first time put a date on the beginning of the end of the United States presence in Afghanistan.

He said "these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011. Just as we have done in Iraq, we will execute this transition responsibly, taking into account conditions on the ground."

While it was a necessary political message to those Americans who are doubtful about this war, sweetening the pill of the troop increase, it has worried many in the region, where some have interpreted it starkly as meaning that America will pull out in a year and a half's time.

Gen Jones was deeply involved in designing the new strategy, attending all 10 meetings between the president and his top advisers at which the strategy was discussed. And he told me that wasn't so.

He said that "with a relentless application of this new force in 2011 we will be successful in reaching our goals...That will allow us to start pulling some of our forces out. So there is no contradiction."

I put it to him that that wasn't the way the speech had been seen in the region. This was his response:

"Its very important that people in Afghanistan hear this very clearly: this is not a withdrawal of the United States from Afghanistan in 2011, it is a decision to turn over to the Afghans some of the responsibility where they are ready to accept that responsibility. But in no manner, shape or form is the United States leaving Afghanistan in 2011."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/no_afghanistan_withdrawal_in_2.html

[mkultra]

115. i support killing AQ

[asdjrocky]

116. A person that uses the "ticking time bomb" theory,

Or plays the "what if" game with peoples lives can not be taken seriously. I look at you the same way I would look at, oh let's say, Dick Cheney.

I lost someone in that one of those towers that day, and you offended me a great deal with that post.

You should be ashamed of yourself and you should apologize to DU in general or you should leave.

[FrenchieCat]

118. I'm sorry if you were offended,

but by the same token, you have offended me many times,
but since I don't believe that you come to this forum
with the objective of making me feel good and comfortable,
I don't suggest that you need to do anything about anything that you have
ever said.....and I guess that is the difference between us; I believe in debate,
while you believe in folks being in lockstep with your sensibilities.

If the scenario, one that I clearly stated would be
what the Republicans would put forth with the media's assistance,
ended up making you feel bad about the person you lost, that wasn't the intent,
My intent was to showcase the possibility of how things could go if Obama reniged on his
many times made pledge made during the campaign, and to pull us out without even trying to do all that he could in reference to making sure what happened on 9/11 doesn't ever happen again, and if
it did, it wouldn't be from his lack of trying to insure otherwise.

As for being ashamed, there is no reason that I should be,
simply because you don't like what I said, and because you have deliberately chosen
to interpret those comments in the worse light possible according to you.

I'm not about to "watch what I say" or succumb to those who, like you did,
request that I leave this forum because they have decided
that I am "with you are I am aginst you".
That would only mean that George Bush's tactics have won,
and as far as I'm concerned, they didn't.

[asdjrocky]

119. When have I ever offended you?

Name what I have ever written that you have found offensive. Just one thing, you can go to my journal and take a look. I've never used the death of one of your loved ones to make a point. Sick, sad and stupid. It was a really, really low thing to do. Something that a neocon would do.

Sometimes people cross the line and they should be held accountable. I thought DU was a little different but I'm slowly and sadly learning this is not the case. I should have known better.

And since you are all for debate, tell me, it what scenario will the republicans not blame President Obama for the terrorist attack on our own soil that you must know is inevitable?

When I fuck up I say so. When you fuck up you just keep talking, that's the difference. I don't say I'm sorry, but, I say I'm sorry. That's the difference. Do you realize that when people bring it up it hurts? It takes me back to the day when she died?

Would you like to know her name? Everyone that died that day had a name. And everyone that will die in Afghanistan will have a name too.

[FrenchieCat]

120. I wasn't keeping "score".

As for the Republicans blaming Obama if there was a terror attack,
and the fact that they would do so regardless,
the difference for me is whether he would have done all that he could
that he felt was appropriate to prevent them.
That was the problem with Bush if you recall. It wasn't the terror attach so much,
as the fact that he had been amply warned, and did nothing about it;
that became a big ass problem for me.

I support Obama doing what he believes is necessary to do what he believes is the right thing
in this serious case, rather than leave in a hurry because a bunch of folks at Du decided for him
that it was the only thing to do.

As for your friend who died on 9/11, again, I offer you my condolescence,
but that is all that I can do, beyond speaking my mind about how I envision
we need to proceed in order to keep it from happening again.

Your stance against most of what Obama does may or may not be linked to your Friend's death,
but my stance has everything to do with what I believe is the right thing to do,
considering the circumstances.

You can lay it all at the feet of Obama if it helps you,
but it would not make you right.

[asdjrocky]

121. Okay. Then I'll just feel sorry for you.

[Orsino]

124. That's actually a war you're supporting.

I can only hope that some troops will begin exiting as soon as possible.