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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 12:53 AM
Original message
"The Stupidity of Liberal Apathy"
I'll go ahead and get the popcorn ready:



"Liberals have savaged these members and the lesson many will take is don’t stick your neck out because the left will kick your ass regardless."



The Stupidity of Liberal Apathy

Activists at last week’s Netroots Nation talked about disappointment and disillusionment. The polls show a slow, steady decline in support for the president among Democrats. Neither sample captures perfectly the state of the liberal mind this summer, but you’d have to be pretty oblivious not to see that President Obama, and the Democrats, are losing the love of their base.

It’s a somewhat predictable decline, given lofty expectations for the Obama presidency and the stubbornly slow recovery. It's also a relatively modest decline: After all, it’s not like anybody is talking about starting a third party. Still, the right is energized, the left is ambivalent, and that means Democrats are in big trouble this November.

If you This seems totally nuts, purely on the merits. Obama and the Democrats passed a major stimulus that cut taxes for the middle class and invested heavily in public works. They saved the auto industry, created a new regulatory framework for the financial industry, and enacted comprehensive health care reform. Compromises watered down each of these initiatives, to say nothing of the ideas (climate change!) that aren’t going to pass. And still this was the most productive liberal presidency in a generation or maybe two.

But liberal ambivalence isn't just foolish substantively. It's also foolish strategically.

The fact is that voting for these measures, particularly health care and (in the House) climate change, was tough for many members of Congress.
Liberals consider the Affordable Care Act a watered-down version of a watered-down of something resembling a true universal coverage system. But in Tennessee, Idaho, and a bunch of places in between, it's a government takeover of health care. Liberals think Waxman-Markey was a conservative half-solution to a planetary crisis. In more conservative districts--and, let's face it, plenty of liberal ones too--it's higher energy bills.

But consider what happened after the climate change vote in the House last year. When Democrats went back to their districts, conservatives pummeled them--in person and on the air--while liberals just shrugged. And consider what happened after the health care bill passed: Conservatives went into overdrive about socialized medicine, while liberals kept talking about what a lousy bill it was.

Not surprisingly, members from more conservative parts of the country are pretty frustrated, particularly when they're getting attacked directly by the left. As one senior Democratic aide told me on Wednesday, expressing a sentiment I've heard many times on Capitol Hill,

Liberals have savaged these members and the lesson many will take is don’t stick your neck out because the left will kick your ass regardless.


To be clear, sometimes ass-kicking is good. Call Kent Conrad a hypocrite on the deficit. Blast Joe Lieberman for carrying water on behalf of the insurance industry. Hold Obama accountable for the bureaucratic neglect that enabled the Gulf disaster. Liberals won't get anywhere by meekly accepting every compromise that comes down the pike or looking the other way when Democrats screw up. Politics goes is a two-way street and liberals need their leaders to lead sometimes.

But if the left is going to demand action, it has to do more than shrug when action--even modest action--actually happens. They have to show some enthusiasm, if not locally then at least nationally. Truth be told, a member in a Republican plus-three district probably benefits more from higher Obama approval ratings than an ad buy from Moveon.org. Otherwise office-holders, even ones from relatively liberal districts, won't have much incentive to vote liberal next time around. As another congressional aide told me, via email:

I hear this stuff all the time, about climate change, health reform, financial reform--members complaining about having to vote for these things because they were forced to by party leadership with NO upside for them. ... They’re getting hit on all sides. ... these members need more than just the stick, you also have to give them the carrot every once in a while.


It'd be nice if we lived in a world where politicians voted based on the public interest. But we happen to live in a world where, to varying degrees, politicians vote based on their immediate electoral needs. If liberals don't embrace politicians who vote with them today, then liberals can't expect the same politicians, or their replacements, to vote with them tomorrow.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/76637/dumb-liberal-stupidity-apathy
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think most politicians try to vote as they think the people who voted them want...
Edited on Thu Jul-29-10 01:06 AM by Ozymanithrax
But, since the average midterm and off year election rarely gets more than 39% of the vote, that means that, at best, a Congressman or Senator only gives a damn about 39% of the people. Most of them, only care about what their voters care about, and those members of 39% who voted against them are to be ignored. So the average Senator or Congressman cares only about what 18.51% of the electorate in his or her district or state care about.

They take polls to find out what that tiny number care about.

We have a government elected by a majority of the minority who vote.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. Over 69% of ALL Americans...
...OPPOSED Mandates without a Public Option.

A large majority OPPOSED the Great Wall Street Bailout Scam.

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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Um... am I missing something here?
"Liberals have savaged these members and the lesson many will take is don’t stick your neck out because the left will kick your ass regardless."

When did that ever happen? When has a liberal kicked ANYBODY's ass - unless it's our single solitary Congressional soulmate Alan Grayson? Even Obama didn't let 'em have it as much as he could/should have during Campaign 08.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. He's talking about liberal constituencies & interest groups with their Dem representatives in
Congress.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. No kidding. What cracks me up is first the complaint is
we're too loud and then because we're apathetic.

Make up your minds! lol
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. we're loudly apathetic?
I could care less. A lot less.
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bkozumplik Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. its the democracy, stupid
Let me help you author-- you are off fighting pet politics wars and are missing the big picture.
If you represent my interests, I will vote for you. You dont, I'll vote for someone else, or no one.
Its not a very difficult thing to understand. If the politicians want my vote, they can earn it.

I'm not in this to stick it to repubs or play games. I want my interests looked after, period.
that is all. Its really just that simple.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. +++
Worth repeating:
"I'm not in this to stick it to repubs or play games. I want my interests looked after, period.
that is all. Its really just that simple."


It IS that simple.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. More truth-telling that will bring out the unrec army
Self proclaimed "progressives" turned out to be not-a-very-smart group.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Truth telling, my granny. It isn't even coherent internally.
Edited on Thu Jul-29-10 02:26 AM by EFerrari
The guy can't decide if we're apathetic, ambivalent or demanding. He's whining about those poor Congress members that found it hard to vote for health insurance when their return rate is probably the highest of any federal body on the planet. And he's saying it as if there was liberal leadership on that bill.

lol

But it's very fashionable to beat up on liberals these days even if what you're saying it complete cr@p.

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Those lazy, arrogant, out of touch, sellout, idiots work for us
and apparently do not not deserve the privilege of serving the people of their states and districts so they NEED to get the fuck outta Dodge.

The carrot is your pampered ass lifestyle, the power, a fine wage, great benefits, and a lifetime pension.

We clearly have been far too lax in weeding our garden and I'm flabbergasted that someone would sympathize with the whining to tickle their taints for doing a lackluster job and selling out to big money.

Want a fucking monument? Then serve the people and lead instead of poll watching, triangulating, kickin it with "stakeholders", shaking the money tree, and selling absurd scams.

This is vile. Who the fuck do these pieces of spoiled rotten shit think they are?

There are plenty where that black hole came from, like every one of us they are totally replaceable and this piece makes me think that we should ruthlessly chew em up and spit em out until we find statesman that are public servants rather than slicksters playing a game for accolades for their least efforts for the "small people".

What a load of pathetic bullshit?!? Holy fuck! What a sense of entitlement! Do your motherfucking job or go the hell home or to work directly with your patrons.



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skeptical cynic Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. "Stupidity"--always with the name calling
Could it just be that a voter has a set of values that guides them?

It's certainly telling that standing by your principles, rather than being guided by the lower standard of pragmatism, is "stupid."

It may be, and it is, that I see so little difference between Democrats and Republicans from the perspective of my own set of values that not voting for one hardly seems different from not voting for the other.

My primary concern this election, and probably the next, is the wars in the Middle East. I am opposed to them. I will vote against anyone who supports them. The following makes sense to me:

I voted against the president who started the war in Afghanistan.
I will vote against the president who escalated the war in Afghanistan.
I will vote against my House and Senate members who vote to fund the war in Afghanistan.
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. ......
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. What a pant load.
Edited on Thu Jul-29-10 06:05 AM by Ganja Ninja
"If liberals don't embrace politicians who vote with them today"

:wtf:
Excuse me, We gave this party a super majority in both houses plus the presidency. They had all the votes they required to push through the agenda stated in their party platform. For whatever reason(s) they failed and we got less than half a loaf. They failed because they were done in by their own. They ran on a platform they didn't support. We've been gypped and now we're expected to cheer.

"you also have to give them the carrot every once in a while."

I'm sorry Wall Street, the war, banks, insurance companies, big oil and the health care industry have stole all our carrots and our homes and our pensions and our jobs.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Shallow understanding of Congress
No, they did not have the votes.

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NodQuestion Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. correct
THIS.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. If they had voted together they would have had the votes.
Time after time they had the same 1/2 dozen members stab them in the back. What are we suppose to do give them an 80% or 90% majority so they can deliver? We're in a fight against a party that is willing to let people lose everything. We can't afford to have the same people fuck us over while the other party votes in lock step.
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NodQuestion Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. duh
yeah if they voted together they would have had it, but they didn't because some of them are moderates. It's the price of holding a majority, the democratic coalition is diverse and to get the votes you would need to have gotten a majority that negated the around 5-9 moderates in the senate. It's math people.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Oh thanks for cluing me in genius.
So they aren't really a party but more of a rabble. A collection of free spirits that does whatever. :eyes:

But we should all rally around them for what? The op is about why people aren't enthusiastic about voting for the Democrats again. You don't seem to get it.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. Some of them are "moderates"?
No.
Some of them are Republicans with a "D" after their name.

Your argument would have some merit IF
The White House and former DLC President Clinton had NOT publicly campaigned to get these same "moderates" re-elected in Democratic Primaries when they were opposed by strong Pro-LABOR Democrats.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. GW Bush routinely pushed bills through with 51 votes
Democrats have no yarbles
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NodQuestion Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. not how congress works
That's resolution and most of healthcare / wall street couldn't get done on resolution. There's more to healthcare than the public option, in fact a lot of it is regulation on insurance companies, regulations that are pretty damn good. Crafting a resolution public option would have taken immense work and would have incurred massive backlash that would have left the democrats more fucked than they are now. If they wanted to get it passed they should have had a plan and a quicker reaction to the tea party, they didn't so it doesn't exist.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Bullshit
"Crafting a resolution public option would have taken immense work and would have incurred massive backlash that would have left the democrats more fucked than they are now"

Cowardice
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NodQuestion Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. no
Cowardice is expecting a bunch of people to do heavy lifting with no backup. We didn't show up to town halls until it was too late, we didn't march, and we didn't write to our congressional reps until lit was over. We were out maneuver and out gunned in the twilight hour for the public option in a way that made it impossible for blue dogs to bend, and created an opening in the senate for conservadems to worm out. It was contest of messaging and politics 101 and we lost in a way that cost us the public option. We offered no reward for people heavily sieged in their districts and on tv for weeks and demanded they do it without even showing up to the fight until it was over all so we would feel god that a plan that really didn't even exist beyond concept, had no definitive shape or range of services, and that had no message as to why it should exist until it was trounced, gave us a political victory that we weren't even willing to fight for until congressional reps and senators had be shouted at and literally physically assaulted. Our inability to fight for it when it needed us the most contributed to it's death just as much the no votes that made sure it never left comities.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Total crap
"We didn't show up to town halls until it was too late"

We voted for them and THEY were the ones that took it back to the town halls. Was that really necessary? What purpose did that serve? They were the ones that dragged the health care debate out because they couldn't get their own membership to honor the party platform. They never had to go back to the people for anything. They had a clear mandate from the election to do what they ran on, a single payer universal healthcare system and the public option was never mentioned during the campaign. That term was only coined after they abandoned single payer.
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NodQuestion Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. wrong
Single payer is never mentioned in the democratic platform or by any major dem, what they do say is that every American should be covered and able to chose between a public or private plan (http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html page 12). The public option is mentioned in the party platform explicitly. Also, winning 2008 was a battle and changing the country is a war. You want to win, you show up and back up dem reps and senators. The job of a Colorado democratic senator isn't to appease you if you aren't from Colorado. That's why they held town halls, because they had do it and because independents are real, they vote, and they make the difference in who wins elections. They aren't there to get beat up for us, we have a shared responsibility in implementing these changes that goes beyond just voting and yes politics is still very local which is why Ben Nelson doesn't and should care what my Colorado Democratic ass thinks, that doesn't mean there are ways of applying pressure and mobilizing local voters in his state.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. President Johnson didn't bother with 'town halls' in pushing social security through
He used the bully pulpit and twisted arms behind the scenes, and got it done, political consequences be damned. He did so because it was the right thing to do.

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NodQuestion Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. he did the same thing with vietnam
And you forgot all the marches, civil rights leaders, and events that made his legislation inevitable. These dame grassroots style events are what made the death the public option's death more palatable. Also, do you really want the President to backmail people, threaten to expose affairs, and all the stuff that went into Johnson's treatment. What you wrote only reinforces my argument, that there were forces beyond the president that were required to make the public option happen.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. LOL
The Public Option was too hard. :cry:

Americans will just have to settle for FAR LESS than the rest of the Civilized World takes for granted because the Public Option was too hard for the Democrats.

When did "Yes We CAN!"
morph into
"Its too hard." :cry:
.
.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. One size fits all excuse. I hear they have it trucked in on pallets. n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. But...but...but...
Its ALL Joe Lieberman's Fault! :cry:
He's Superman.



"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. kick
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. The New Republic- a publication stuck in the1990's
As transparent then as they are now.

Does anyone even read them anymore?

They're US News and World Report- and this author is essentially Mortimer Zuckerman.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. the stupidty of continuing to blame liberals for the shortcomings of the sensible centrists..
how should i put this? fuck. this. shit.
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
30. Someone stuck their neck out for liberals?
I must have missed that.
Or was "Sticking their neck out" when Rahm apologized for offending the delicate sensibilities of Palin when he said the left was acting retarded?
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
36. K&R..... the New Republic has it exactly right
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