Dump Biden, ex-Va. governor urges Obama

[babylonsister]

Wilder is WAY out of line imo. What gaffe has Biden made recently, and what's Wilder's beef with him?

Dump Biden, ex-Va. governor urges Obama

By NICOLE GAUDIANO and GINGER GIBSON • The News Journal • August 3, 2010


Vice President Joe Biden's infamous gaffes have prompted a member of his own party to call for him to get the boot.

Former Virginia Gov. Douglas Wilder, the first black to be elected governor, is calling for President Barack Obama to sack Biden and make Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton his running mate in 2012.

The Democrat wrote Monday in a highly critical Politico column that the move would help win over working-class and middle-class independent voters who have grown distant from Obama.

Wilder, who supported Obama over Clinton in 2008, says Clinton is better suited as a political and governing partner for Obama and that Biden hasn't distinguished himself except with gaffes.

"I realize many say that he brings some more humanity to this administration," Wilder wrote of Biden. "But there are too many YouTube moments."

more...

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20100803/NEWS/8030330/Dump-Biden-ex-Va-governor-urges-Obama

[Blue_Tires]

1. oh, ferfuxake.....

[babylonsister]

3. No kidding. No gripes AGAINST RETHUGS, Mr. Wilder?

Ugh. We can be our own worst enemies.

[Blue_Tires]

14. Don't forget he also stumped for McDonnell last November....

and wonders why he's persona non grata in his own party...

[Steely_Dan]

2. Actually...

I think they need to take the reigns off of him. He speaks his mind and rarely puts up with RW crap. Since he has been VP, he seems to have been muzzled. Just my 2 cents.

[PatSeg]

25. Yep, I agree totally

His interviews and public appearances have been very persuasive and informative. He communicates better with the average voter better than Obama. He is an under-used asset for this administration.

Long time no see Steely Dan. How have you been?

[Steely_Dan]

45. Hey Hey....

Hello...Doing Good...waiting for back surgery in about two weeks...Still a huge Biden supporter...and Obama. How you????

[PatSeg]

58. Still a huge Biden supporter as well

The attraction never wore off. Obama/Biden turned out to be an excellent combo. I've never seen anything like them in my lifetime.

Sorry to hear you need surgery. Hope all goes well.

Always like running into the old gang. Some still drop by the Biden support group now and then.

[WheelWalker]

31. Roger that !!!

[Lost4words]

4. I'd rather have NBMA Joe over any Clinton! Good God!

[Bitwit1234]

12. I would rather have had Hillary as president but as we see you

can't have everything and sometimes we the people make the wrong choice.
They did.

[AtomicKitten]

28. lol

:nopity:

[rury]

38. ROTFL

:nopity:

[fadedrose]

33. I love Biden & didn't he come out for Obama instead of Clinton in 2008?

Somebody's tightening the screws because of that . . .

[fadedrose]

34. Matthews said that Clinton may not be willing to be SOS again...

and he seemed to suggest that NOBODY could take her place because she's doing such a good job.

That's ridiculous, like a lot of stuff Matthews says...

[karynnj]

80. Rather ridiculous

She has been a credible Secretary of State, but not one that will even be considered exceptional at this point in time. The only diplomatic effort I have seen credited just to her was preventing the Turkey/ Armenia signing of an agreement from breaking down. What has been more notable is her absence when some key diplomatic events occurred.

She was not that prominent on Iraq, here Biden has been more visible. She was not that prominent when the flotilla was an issue. Her trip to Pakistan was not a success, though it was set up to be.

[laugle]

90. Don't

blame Hillary for Pakistan, it's Obama they hate. How soon you forget during the campaign he talked of bombing them. They burned American flags in the street, people were outraged. Now Hillary is sent to clean-up the mess!!

You've always hated Hillary, and it's clouded your reality!

[karynnj]

96. I did follow what happened in Pakistan - likely more than you did

It had nothing to do with anything that Obama said in the campaign.

It DID have to do with the American policy to use drones, but it was more complicated than that. Whether you bothered to follow it or not, there was a major shift in our DIPLOMATIC effort. The Congress passed Kerry/Lugar/Berman, which was an effort to greatly increase aid that would directly aid the Pakistani people. The idea behind it was the observation of Kerry, Biden and Hagel after they were in Pakistan in the wake of an earthquake that there was an enormous amount of good will created as Americans were seen really helping the people. The bill started as Biden/Lugar as they were the top Senators on the SFRC. With Obama as President and Biden as VP, this bill had full administration support.

The bill included strict provisions on oversight - directed at the state department requiring that there be controls that the money go for what was intended. These controls were needed because far over half of similar moneys in the past were diverted. These provisions angered some Pakistanis, especially the army - largely because this money was intended to somewhat change the balance of power - helping the then fledgling fragile newly elected government. That government, as flawed as it is, is our best hope.

The Pakistanis objected to some of the language and immediately before the bill was signed by Obama, Kerry and Lugar wrote a statement on intent that lowered the anger somewhat. Kerry then went to Pakistan meeting with the government, the media, the army etc. Those of us in the JK group followed the coverage in the Pakistani and Indian media. It was a rough trip, but by its conclusion there was significant support for the legislation and the concerns were tamped down.

Hillary's trip was about 3 weeks later. She was the one who was there to officially announce some major projects that would be done with the money from that bill. (I think there were 10) The pre-visit US and Pakistani coverage was 100% positive. It was treated almost like a Presidential ceremonial visit. It started out that way - until Hillary - again angered by a reasonable, but critical question - responded with the OBL crack. You can question why the State Department put her in the position of doing what was essentially a town hall in Pakistan.

Having read many Pakistani editorials in the period before Kerry's trip though Clinton's, one thing that was in many was a sense in Pakistan that the US did not really understand or value the real effort and risk that their government was taking in going after the Pakistani Taliban - leading to more than a million internally displaced refugees. Now, even before Wikileaks, the links between Pakistan's ISI and the Afghan Taliban and the fact that Pakistan helped the Taliban to power originally were known. But, in many of the editorials, that was not mentioned and they focused only on the painful current effort - and their collective noses were out of joint thinking we did not appreciate what they were doing at that time.

The problem here is that Hillary's anger led to her saying things that very well might be the truth as far as the US information goes, but which negatively impacted the goal of her meeting. Even the US media did not praise the trip after it ended. (In fact, she continued to meet with Israel and Pakistan and the State Department had to walk back a statement of hers on settlements where she moved from Obama's "NO" settlements position.

As to whether I always hatred Hillary. you are incredibly wrong. As my now 25 year old daughter teased me in 2008, she was brought up with Hillary as a role model. She did vote for Obama, but only after seriously considering Clinton. My opinion on both Clintons soured as I saw the negative things that especially Bill Clinton did in 2000 and 2004. (Imagine if Jimmy Carter put out a book on his Presidency and was able to command the media as Clinton did and chose to release it in July 1992. this would have led to media discussions of the problems of the Carter years - right when Bill Clinton needed the air to create hope for his campaign. That is what Bill did to Kerry - so, in July 2004, the Lewinsky mess was rehashed and on current events, Clinton criticized the "left" of the party for saying that Iraq was the "wrong war")

As to Hillary, the moment that I stopped respecting her was her reaction to Kerry's 2006 botched joke. Had she said that that it was a gaffe and not helpful I would have had no problem. The first was completely true and the second opinion. However, she joined the Republicans in saying it was inappropriate. The only way it could be "inappropriate" is if it did disparage the troops. Given Kerry's long history with troops and vets, this was despicable - especially when you remember that war hero Kerry defended Bill Clinton eloquently and beautifully in 1992 when Clinton was called a draft dodger by Bob Kerrey.

Now, it was not just that one comment that caused my change - it validated negatives things that others said about Hillary Clinton, including many things written by Clinton officials in the 1990s. I do think, like most people, she is a very complex person. On the plus side, she can be very nice and friendly and she is clearly intelligent. On the negative side, she has always been very thin skinned and when she feels attacked hits back - often not in proportion to the cause. It is this that I think makes her less affective than she otherwise would be as a diplomat.

[laugle]

89. Greta

Van Susteran did an interview with HRC a few months back. She said she will be leaving after one term. She talked about the rigors of the job and all the traveling she's been doing. Frankly, I think she is more of a hawk than Obama and would have a different foreign policy if she had been president. That's my take anyway. That's why I don't think she would accept the VP slot, she already said it was offered to her before Biden, and she turned it down.

Hillary also talked about what she would do after leaving office, and it had nothing to do with politics, writing, or something, I can't remember....

I think she's tired.....it's sad....she would have made a great president, she would have gotten a real health care bill through with a public option. That woman has courage! She will be missed..........

[AtomicKitten]

97. "... she already said (VP) was offered to her before Biden, and she turned it down"

Ah, no.

Hillary Rodham Clinton, who ran so closely to Obama in the primary, was never seriously considered, said two officials involved with the search. She asked not to be vetted unless she was going to be picked, the two officials said, speaking on a condition of anonymity to describe the private discussions.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12713.html

“She was never vetted,” a Democratic official reported. “She was not asked for a single piece of paper. She and Senator Obama have never had a single conversation about it.

“This would be the biggest leap of faith ever,” the official said. “She’s waiting for the text message like everyone else.”

[laugle]

101. Anonymous sources

from Politico doesn't make it true. But this is an old story and not worth re-hashing.........

Nice to see you back, hope all is well......

BTW, she didn't want the SOS job either, and I got that straight from her lips.......

[AtomicKitten]

105. She was not considered for VP although she said she was "open" to it.

This is the history of events and I'm not sure why anybody would feel it necessary to revise the history. This stuff has been documented in a number of sources:

Clinton said she was "open" to VP slot if it was offered:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/06/hillary_clinton_open_to_vp_slo.html

It was not offered:

22 August 2008
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/22/source-clinton-has-been-told-shes-not-the-vp-pick/

(CNN) – Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama has ruled out Senator Hillary Clinton as his vice presidential running mate, a senior Democratic official told CNN on Friday night.

Clinton - Obama's main rival during the primary season - has been informed by Obama's campaign that she is not his choice to be his vice presidential candidate, the source said.

Although Clinton insiders suggested open civil war over VP slot:
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/2008/05/23/clinton-insiders-suggest-open-civil-war-over-vp-spot/

She was, however, open to the SOS spot:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/17/hillary-clinton-secretary-of-state

[karynnj]

99. How would she have gotten a "real health care bill through with a public option"?

She would have faced the same Congress - and if you look at the votes, there was NOT a big margin in either House. This likely is the most that could have passed. The public option, more than anything else constrains cost. I suspect that the insurance companies likely realize that they will get a public option competitor if they fail to themselves reduce costs. Passing just that would be a far simpler feat given the entire structure that is in place.

[laugle]

100. Did you happen to see the Frontline

program called "Obama's deal?" It was a 1 hour summary documentary of how the so called HCR bill was hammered out. Although I don't find it productive at this time go into detail re the bill, since it is a done deal, I have concluded that the POTUS sold out to the insurance companies early on, and should have fought harder on the PO.

As far as Hillary goes, she's a fighter, and I felt she was passionate about real HC reform and our chances would have been greater for a better bill.

IMO, the best option would have been to allow people to buy into medicare early. It seems to me this would have been real competition and reduced costs for all. I strongly believe that most of the country would have supported this.

Time will tell.....if the current HCR bill will be a success, personally, I think it is going to be a logistical and financial nightmare!

[karynnj]

110. Do you remember 1993? Her passion did not come close to leading to better HC

Hillary fought hard for the nomination, but obviously so did Obama. No one ever gets a nomination handed to them on a silver platter. (In fact, the powers that be came closer to doing that for Clinton than any other non incumbent President or VP)

Hillary's efforts really lead to an excellent HCR bill. The fact is that buying into medicare early for those over 55 was an excellent idea, but it did not have the votes. There was no chance to allow everyone - no matter the age to buy into Medicare. You can strongly believe the country would have supported this or you can look at what actually happened. There were not 60 votes for even extending it to age 55.

I agree that Medicare for all would be a better plan - and one that Hillary, to my knowledge, never has said she is for. The fact though is that Bernie Sanders has said that a single payer plan would get fewer than 10 votes in the Senate.

[Top Cat]

39. I agree they need to leave Joe alone... Hillary is not a good fit in the VP role with the Potus

[theoldman]

5. I am sure Obama will write himself a note.

The note will say not to listen to Wilder.

[still_one]

6. Why does Wilder think it important to PUBLICLY urge Obama to do this?

He could have met PRIVATELY with Obama and expressed his views, but no, let's create as much division in the party as we can and make it public

Is he selling a book or something, because it sure seems that he could care less what happens in the midterms

[NorthCarolina]

35. He wants Hillary in the VP slot so that she's a shoe-in for 2016.

I hope she doesn't run as I cast my last vote EVER for a DLC New Dem when I voted for Obama. Never again will I support a DLC New Dem candidate in any capacity or for any office. As such, Hillary would not get my vote.

[Tempest]

7. Who hasn't Wilder called on Obama to fire?

Back in February Wilder was calling for Kaine's ouster as DNC head.

[SoxFan]

108. Bo

[WI_DEM]

8. Biden has done a great job and deserves to be on the ticket again.

[ProSense]

9. "Biden hasn't distinguished himself except with gaffes."

Like there aren't gaffes of Hillary all over You Tube.

"I realize many say that he brings some more humanity to this administration," Wilder wrote of Biden. "But there are too many YouTube moments."

What a completely idiotic statement.

[Metric System]

13. Leave it to you to turn this into an attack on Hillary, as if she's responsible for what this

primary Obama supporter has to say.

[ProSense]

19. What attack on Hillary? It's a fact.

Leave it to you to get defensive about a point based directly on Wilder's comment.

[Gordan Shumway]

20. Maybe you missed the part where Hillary was

the suggested replacement for Biden. Perfectly fine to point out that they both have Youtube gaffes.

[Drunken Irishman]

23. No. I think she's saying that Clinton too has her gaffes...

So if Wilder wants Biden off the ticket because he's a walking gaffe, he should be consistent.

[PatSeg]

26. They ALL have gaffes,

but the media goes out of its way to report on anything Biden says or does that might be perceived as a gaffe. Once the media puts a tag on someone, they seem to be stuck with it for life. Lazy journalism.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

48. +1

[laugle]

91. Yes,

the Hillary haters are out! If I were them, I'd be more concerned about what Democrat will run against Obama in the primary if the economy doesn't pick up and we continue with these senseless wars.........

[wisteria]

18. I agree. n/t

[Number23]

47. Good point, Pro.

I do agree to a point with the statement that Biden has only distinguished himself by his gaffes (although the "BFD" one was priceless) but Clinton has had her fair share too.

Her statement to the Pakistanis about "why can't they just get Bin Laden" and her completely idiotic and bizarre response to the student in the Congo when he was mistakenly translated to sound as though he was asking her for her husband's opinion come to mind. But I still think very highly of both Hillary and Joe.

Doug Wilder I think is just trying to stay relevant. It's a shame too, I used to think very highly of him.

[Beacool]

56. Her response in Congo was far from "idiotic" and was NOT mistranslated.

The names Obama and Clinton are not similar at all, and anyone who spoke French understood the question.

She had been in Goma that day, the refugee camp where most women and girls had been brutally raped. She then gets asked: "Mrs. Clinton, we've all heard about the Chinese contracts in this country. The interference is from the World Bank against this contract. What does Mr. Clinton think through the mouth of Mrs. Clinton and what does Mr. Mutombo think on this situation? Thank you very much."

The question was insulting. What does Mr. Clinton (or Obama for that matter) think through the mouth of Mrs. Clinton? How chauvinist can it get???

[Number23]

60. Hmmm, who to believe -- Beacool or... anyone??

Think I'll go with Option B.

It was widely documented that the question was mistranslated or that the person asking the question misspoke. Either way, for the SoS to act that way towards a Congolese student was disgraceful. She could have and should have found a more dignified way to respond.

As a foreign policy expert said at the time: "If a student in the Congo can get under your skin with a mistranslation and you're unable to deflect it in a gracious diplomatic way, one gets a little concerned when an issue of more consequence comes along,” Robert Schadler, of the American Foreign Policy Council."

The student insisted at the time that he'd mistakenly said President Clinton when he meant to say President Obama. Still no excuse for her ridiculous reaction.

[Beacool]

61. Her reaction was not ridiculous.

Of course around here anything Clinton is to be bashed.

So long......

[Number23]

62. Her reaction was absolutely ridiculous. Even the DoS has acknowledged that

If you choose to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative but that doesn't make your opinion right.

And not that it's any of your business, but in my first post I said that I still have tons of respect and still like Hillary and Joe so why you're getting all bent out of shape makes no sense at all.

[karynnj]

82. Her reaction was horrible and not diplomatical

Even in the US, running for President, had someone asked her for Bill's opinion on something, the best response would have been a laugh and saying she were running. Then giving the answer.

Too brittle and far too angry.

From the video, the student's demeanor did not suggest that he was attacking Clinton. Consider the difference in their power. She humiliated him before the entire world.

[AtomicKitten]

98. I agree.

"Too brittle and far too angry."

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23730969-video-hillary-clinton-faces-backlash-over-hissy-fit-in-congo.do

“If a student in the Congo can get under your skin with a mistranslation and you're unable to deflect it in a gracious diplomatic way, one gets a little concerned when an issue of more consequence comes along,” said Robert Schadler, of the American Foreign Policy Council.

Former US diplomat Ray Walser added: “It was a flippish response. I think it was far from diplomatic.”

[karynnj]

81. She was there as the US's top diplomat

Did she have the right to fell annoyed - of course. Did she handle it diplomatically - no.

This was not a good way to handle it - and she never answered the man's question. She could have answered the question and simply prefaced it with - "MY opinion is .... or if there were an administration position - "The obama admministration's position is ... pointedly ignoring that he asked for Bill's position.

As a diplomat, she will face people from very different cultures and sometimes there will be non PC questions.

Here, all she succeeded in doing was showing her anger and changing the story from the point of the trip to "Hillary gets mad".

[laugle]

92. Amen to that!

[Beacool]

54. I like Biden just fine, but leave it to you to go after Hillary.

Same book, different page.

:eyes:

[fugop]

10. Quelle surprise

As soon as I saw "ex. Va. governor" blasting a member of Obama's admin, I knew it was Wilder. Didn't even have to open the message. But alas, I did. Wilder is beyond ridiculous. He can just go away now ... again.

[elleng]

32. As a Virginian, do you have any 'inside info' on Wilder?

Notice 'change' over the years? I used to like him!

[superduperfarleft]

11. Wilder just gets kookier and kookier.

I have no idea what happened to him, but he seems to be losing it even more as the years go by.

[Phx_Dem]

15. No thanks, I prefer Biden. And butt out Wilder, whoever the hell you are.

[Jennicut]

16. Er, lets get rid of the one person in the administration who really connects with people

and who has had some decent ideas on Afghanistan. Alrighty then.

[PatSeg]

27. I think the guy is just looking for some

media coverage. Say something outrageous and you're all over the news. How pathetic.

[wisteria]

17. He should have kept his opinion to himself.

I believe he has always been a Clinton supporter making his opinion a bit biased.
Frankly, I think VP Biden is doing a good job. In general, VP's don't make the news much anyway. Why are we even getting into this now? Why is it that every time things look gray, people think we need a Clinton to save us?

[seattleblue]

24. He supported Obama over Clinton in the primaries.

Is his opinion "biased" now?

[wisteria]

36. You are correct on whom he finally supported, but he waited a long time to offer his support

AND, it was expected that he would support Clinton. So, I still think his opinion is biased.
I had forgotten that he ultimately-late in the primary-backed Obama.

[laugle]

93. He did

not support Obama. In fact he said that Obama was not qualified to be president. Geez....people have a short memory...........

[laugle]

94. Oops, I thought you were talking about Biden, never mind...

[northernlights]

21. Biden wanted to downscale our war in Afghanistan

and narrow the focus to al Qaeda. I say make *him* the next president, get Warren or Grayson or somebody like that as VP... and send the armchair warriors packing.

[Arkana]

22. Wilder can go to hell.

Joe Biden fucking rules. He's the very model of an elder statesman.

[RBInMaine]

29. STUPID idea.

[AtomicKitten]

30. lolol

[Radical Activist]

37. Dumping Biden wouldn't be a bad idea.

But adding Hillary won't help on election day. Hillary's main source of "support" from working class voters in the primary was her familiar last name and not being black. She would lose Obama votes in the general election.

[southernyankeebelle]

40. He had a very good point. I think Biden would like that Sec job.

[Cognitive_Resonance]

41. Wilder is not helping, and he's not even making sense. nt

[Leontius]

42. Nobody cares what Wilder says anymore

He wasn't a bad Governor but since he left office he expects any Democrat to kiss his ass for endorsements. Screw him. Piss off Doug your act is tiresome.

[bigdarryl]

43. Must be a SLOW news day

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

44. Wilder has been such a disappointment.

I voted for him for Richmond Mayor when he successfully lobbied to get that position changed from council appointment to being elected. I thought that was a good idea. Unfortunately, he basically used this new authority to engage in BS stuff like a really stupid turf battle over office space with the schools Dept. which was a total debacle and waste. From there he's followed a pattern of saying stupid shit like this.

[saltpoint]

46. Well, Wilder's view notwithstanding, I hope Joe is

retained.

I really like this vice president.

I definitely didn't care for the previous vice president.

[angee_is_mad]

49. he need to get back on the front porch

with that bullshit. Fortunately he is TOTALLY irrevelant, except when the msm want to use him to make the POTUS look bad. Black on Black crime I call it.

[ShadowLiberal]

50. It's too early to talk about replacing the VP in 2012

Unless Biden suddenly gets involved in some kind of major corruption scandal, or accused with lots of convincing evidence of a serious criminal offense, lets stop the talk of replacing him until late 2011 at least ok people. There's no need to force Biden to say he won't run in 2012 right now, nor is there a reason to force him out of office early to get a 'better' VP.

Plus, all these calls to dump Biden miss reality, lots of insiders since Obama won the election have said that Biden is Obama's closest and most trusted adviser, and that most of the people he's picked for his cabinet/etc were people on Biden's short list of suggested candidates for those jobs. Does that sound like a VP who the president will want to dump in 2012 to you?

[Beacool]

51. Ahhhh, the ship must be in danger of sinking............

So many calls lately for Hillary to be VP in 2012.

:D

[wisteria]

52. We don't need a Clinton to save anything-Obama is doing just fine.

I will stick with Obama and Biden. This is one Democrat who wishes the Clinton's would retire.

[Beacool]

53. Well, this is one Democrat who wishes that Obama had stayed in the Senate.

Chacun à son goût.........

:shrug:


;)

[suzie]

66. This is another Democrat who also wishes that the Clintons would stop their endless

manipulation and retire.

[Beacool]

69. Well, unfortunately for those who think like you.......

There are millions of people who wish that they continue with their "manipulations". Who are the top three most popular public figures in the country? Michelle O. by 64% and the Clintons by 61% each.

:D

[suzie]

95. Yeah, I'm sure there are all kinds of Republican office holders who are praying for the

Clintons to keep up their manipulations.

Especially those Republican governors and Senators who owe their election to the disastrous canddidates--but Clinton loyalists--foisted upon Democrats by the Clintons.

[dionysus]

68. Now Bea.. behave!

here, take this;

:hi:

[Beacool]

73. Banky!!!!

Thanks, friend!!!

:hug:

[laugle]

102. Hey there,

you little pot-stirrer...........LOL...........nice to see you........

[Beacool]

103. That's me, the "pot stirrer". LOL!!!

I hate group think. We are still allowed independent thought in this country.

Nice seeing you too!!!

:hi:

[laugle]

104. Well.....

you know what they say, "the more things change, the more they stay the same!" And so it goes............

[Beacool]

106. Yep, the economy still sucks and millions are still unemployed.

The only ones doing great are financial institutions and large corporations. Why do we even have two parties?

:(

[NYC Liberal]

65. Would she want it though? VP is a pretty dull job.

I know she loved the Senate and I would love to see her run for her old seat again if/when she retires as SoS.

How does Senate Majority Leader sound? She certainly has experience dealing with the Rethugs and knows just how to handle them. :D

[Beacool]

70. I don't know if she would want the position or not.

Yes, she truly loved the Senate, but I don't think that she would consider running for her seat again. The truth of the matter is that the one position that she's more than qualified to fulfill is that of president. But, who knows how she'll feel about it in a few years.

[SoxFan]

109. Get a grip, will you?

Hillary lost, and you've never been able to cope with that fact. Your constant pissing and moaning is embarrassing.

[Hawkeye-X]

55. Wilder? Douglas Effin' Wilder?

I take little credence on him.

Who do they expect to replace Biden? Effin' Lieberman?

Hawkeye-X

[craigmatic]

57. Biden is probably the most grounded person in the executive branch.

If Clinton wants to run she'd be better off leaving state and running as an outsider in 2016. Sitting VP's very rarely win the big office anyway.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

59. He also urged Obama to dump Tim Kaine at DNC Chair. Now, I could get with that! n/t

[DonCoquixote]

63. Two points

One: I agree that Biden has been muzzled. This admin NEEDS a "bad cop" to Barack's "Good cop" and Joe was the perfect fit.
Two: If Barack wants to ensure he loses in 2012, he will have Hillary as VP. His past year has been roughly translated to "let me move to the center even though I beat Clinton by going to the left." Having Hillary as his VP would be like saying "ALL OF YOU LEFTIES CAN GO TO HELL!", if anything, he would need to put someone like Dean, or even Dennis K in the VP slot, as step one of his apology to all the people under Rahm's bus.

[smalll]

64. Hillary was slightly less left than Barack -- but at least she knows how to fight.

Sayin'! :shrug:

[DonCoquixote]

88. ah, but for WHAT?

Fighting to make sure no one steps in her friend Israel's toes? Fighting to make sure her old company, Wal-Mart, stays profitable? Again, the main disapoointment with Obama is that he adapted Clinton policies and used Clinton wonks.

[Beacool]

71. Actually, putting a lefty would guarantee him a loss.

In case you haven't noticed, the majority of the country (whether we like it or not) are centrists.

;)

[DonCoquixote]

86. Actually,

Most of the people mad at him on the Democratic side are people to the left of him. The shark jumped when he took on Hillary's ideas for healthcare, like mandatory insurance purchases, and sank more when he chose Hillary's slavish support for Israel.

[Mass]

67. It is interesting to see how democrats eat each others

It is indeed sad. For my part, Biden should stay, and I would just hope the Clinton supporters stop their campaign. There are more important things to do in this country than to make Hillary Clinton president.

[Beacool]

72. The party is not monolithic.

Besides, Wilder was an Obama supporter in 2008.

:shrug:

[DonCoquixote]

87. It's funny

Usually when I make a point about Hillary, her supporters yell at me and say "The primaries are over", funny how it seems that it is not so some here. Of course, they do not get so mouthy when you point out that things like NAFTA or DADT, or trashing Glass-Stegall, were Clinton ideas (remember, even Bill said they were a team.) They never say how the person who helped put these policies in place is supposed to demolish them. And let's not even bring up that bit where someone threatened to "obliterate" Iran, if her beloved Israel was threatened. By why bring it up, the primaries ARE over, right?

[nyc 4 Biden]

74. biden's been great, and besides...

...he's more liberal than BO. (am I crazy for thinking that? i think it's true.)

[Steely_Dan]

75. I Think You Are Correct....

he is more to the left than BO.

[opihimoimoi]

76. Wilder showing signs of heavy Meth use...his thinking is gettimg wacko

[BlueMTexpat]

77. Please leave Hillary alone and

let her stay where she is.
She's doing a great job as SOS, IMHO.

[karynnj]

78. PUMA version 2

They just don't give up.

The fact is that Hillary Clinton herself has not been "gaffe proof" and there are you tubes of those gaffes too.

[Vinca]

79. Biden is the least of Obama's problems.

[Fearless]

83. Bush didn't dump Cheney... And Biden is not even CLOSE to Cheney. So? WTF?

[BeyondGeography]

84. Biden's easily a net plus and some of those "youtube moments" are pure righteousness, Doug

Get lost.

[Phx_Dem]

85. If WIlder had such great political instincts, people would know who he is,

yet no one does. He sounds like a fool.

[SoxFan]

107. Wilder is a donut short of a dozen

Whenever he craves attention, he pulls some sort of idiotic stunt:

-Trying to get the VP slot on Ross Perot's ticket
-Endorsing Republicans for a host of offices in Virginia
-Leaving the Democratic Party in a huff and changing his registration to Independent
-Running for US Senate as an Independent
-Kneecapping Democratic gubernatorial nominee Creigh Deeds

I stopped giving a rat's ass about his opinion a long time ago.