Another Proud Woodchuck!

[SoxFan]

If being a woodchuck means supporting a president who negotiated a significant arms reduction agreement with the Russians, expanded AmeriCorps, provided new assistance to economically troubled urban communities, and made sure that vets with PTSD get the care they deserve, than I am proud to be a woodchuck!

[liberal N proud]

1. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

I just had to through that in.

I couldn't chuck much wood myself.

[jaxx]

2. Yes!

:thumbsup:

[Kahuna]

3. If being a woodchuck means being pragmatic....

Count me in. :patriot:

[WonderGrunion]

4. K&R SoxFan

From one proud woodchuck to another.

[Jakes Progress]

5. It's the only sensibobble thing to do.

Claim you meagre record as a victory and ignore reality. Like the pep rally for the team that's 2 and 8 for the season. Rah. rah.

[SoxFan]

6. Blah Blah Blah

Tragedy is easy. Whining is hard!

[Jakes Progress]

9. How sensibiliciious.

[Ignis]

94. Oh, so close! But I'm afraid the correct answer is "Yargle Bargle Blargh."

Better luck next time!

[WonderGrunion]

7. Seriously, you're just pissed that we're winning games with RBIs

instead of belting out home runs. The fact is, we are still winning games.

Go back to the beer tent and drown your sorrows out.

[Jakes Progress]

8. No hits. No runs. A few walks. No pennant.

Lots of first downs. No touchdowns.

Some free throws. Lots of fancy dribbling. Still down by 20 at half-time. (Forget three pointers, but style points for holding the ball cool and looking dreamy in shorts.)

Beer? Only for photo ops on the lawn.

[stevenleser]

18. Nope, more like Obama's critics here are claiming the team that is 50-1 "just isn't that good"

Nice try though

[madinmaryland]

10. This whistle-pig finds that very sensible...

[spoony]

11. You lot need to get on the same page

Half of you are embracing your inner woodchuck and half are spending unwholesome amounts of time brutalising a cartoon character in their avatars and sig lines. The common theme seems to be violence, for some reason.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spoony]

20. I'm surprised by the level of chaos it has introduced to some posters

First the foot stomping. Then the complaining. Then, weeks later and amid more complaining, the spectacularly bad photoshopped rewrites. And the avatars. And the siglines. Now some kind of bizarre tent revival.

Over a cartoon woodchuck.

Get a grip? Indeed.

[Arkana]

21. You know who argues the exact same way you just argued with me?

Glenn Beck.

I'm serious. This is exactly what he does. He says something really outlandish and stupid (i.e. the pimping of that stupid cartoon as some sort of broad brush smear of everyone who doesn't think the President is a filthy traitor), and then when the opposition fights back, he backs off and pretends to be "just a guy asking questions", smirks, and says "If it's not true how come you're so pissed off?"

Maybe we're pissed off because we're sick of the breathless, dramatic hyperbole. We're tired of being told that we have to be addicted to outrage like you. We're tired of being told that we have to reject Senators and Congressmen who have been loyal to our cause for so long because they voted ONCE in a manner we didn't like. We're sick and fucking tired of being told to sandbag our own chances in November because "It'll teach those fucks a lesson!" It won't. All it will do is help a few self-righteous bloggers and Chicken Littles stroke their egos.

[spoony]

22. Holy shit, calm down.

Talk about addicted to outrage and hyperbole. Seriously, it was funny how upset a woodchuck can make nutty people online, but it's getting to unhealthy levels now.

[MineralMan]

26. Embrace Chuckles! Take back the avatar!

You want outrage. There's plenty of outrage about people taking the avatar back.

[spoony]

27. At least you're just an attention hound

I can comprehend, and pity, that. Some of your friends are rather deranged, though.

[MineralMan]

28. I prefer "attention whore," if you don't mind.

If you're going to insult me, at least get the terminology right. Thanks.

[DevonRex]

38. Uh oh, MM. You're in for another round of "*&@% you MM" posts now.

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

40. Whatever. That's why I post here. The rules prohibit such

childish nonsense. Thank goodness for DU!

If someone wants to post childish things somewhere else, that's fine with me. I suppose it would give someone something to do.

[WonderGrunion]

33. I've seen some liberal sites start to get pissed off already at us

for taking back the woodchuck. It's fun watching them get their knickers in a bunch over the woodchuck for a change.

[spoony]

46. You like pissing off liberals?

Wait...I think there's a word that fits that...

[WonderGrunion]

47. I use the term "liberal sites" as a euphemism

for the Site That Will Not Be Named. I don't believe anyone at that site is an actual Democrat and I truly doubt they are actually liberal.

But go back to "The Crisis" and wallow in your hatred of all the things President Obama has accomplished.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WonderGrunion]

50. Nah, I'll just keep it old-school, cold war diplomacy style

You and I both know what we aren't talking about. I've read the posts that show I'm getting under the skin of "liberal sites".

I look forward to future talks with you comrade.

[spoony]

76. Red-baiting? Really? Up your game, comrade.

And I don't see you getting under anyone's skin. You're the punchline, which is your choice. Have a ball.

[grantcart]

80. You want pissed you should see the Workers wing of the brother/sisterhood

of the Trotskyite supporters of the Engels faction of the Revolutionary/Pro Marx/Hate Stalin/Ambivalent on Lenin/Love Che Literary Group of the Fourth International.

They have declared that in solidarity with the woodchuck they are going to go 'commando' and are not wearing any underwear until the woodchuck's prestine iconic status has been restored to its 'Idealized Proletarian Status'.

Things could get messy.

[NYC_SKP]

83. How very unoriginal of them.

Why must they copy what they see happening in these United States?

Why?

:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

68. ...and... you do it again

Arkana pegged you perfectly.

Deep down, even you know it.

[spoony]

75. So pointing out that it's an overreaction to obsess over a cartoon

is equal to being Glenn Beck. Right. Makes perfect sense. Sure did peg me. What a rightwing fuck I must be, to laugh my ass off at centrist dipshits online who spend all their time being ridiculously hypersensitive to animated woodchucks in bow ties. Blimey, no wonder it's so easy for Obama to keep some of you under his thumb no matter what.

[scheming daemons]

81. She wasn't comparing you and Beck in degree... only in tactics

..and she was dead on.

Quit while you're behind.

[Arkana]

82. I'm a guy, but the support is appreciated.

[azmouse]

32. Very, very well said!!

:applause:

[Bobbie Jo]

44. +1000

:applause:

[Hekate]

79. +1

[SoxFan]

86. +1,000,000

[Ignis]

92. "just a guy asking questions"

Yeah, we have several ever-so-concerned individuals "just asking questions" in this thread.

How strange that you've only pointed out some of those instances, and not others. :freak:

[Arkana]

95. Please, enlighten me. What instances did I miss?

[Ignis]

96. Here you go:

1. View the full thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x401958

2. Press Ctrl-F to open a browser search bar.

3. Enter "just asking," "just wondering," etc., in the browser search bar.

4. Use the Next and Previous arrows to scroll through the results (two will be from this sub-thread, of course).

[WonderGrunion]

48. How is embracing our sensibile side violent?

You see things that aren't actually things.

[spoony]

74. Yeah, machine guns and bloody cartoons. Not at all violent imagery. nt

[flamingdem]

12. Right chuckin' on brother (or sister as the case may be) nt

[Greyhound]

13. IOKIYAD, eh?

[JohnnyLib2]

14. What is a "meme," someone asked recently.

Ta-daaaaaaaa!

[LWolf]

15. Your sensible pragmatism is changealicious.

[MineralMan]

23. Do you have permission from the copyright holder to do this

wholesale posting of his work? Just wondering. I'd hate to see DU get in trouble over a copyright violation.

[spoony]

25. Anything for some attention, huh?

Lol.

[MineralMan]

29. It's a valid question.

It's not about me.

[LWolf]

39. I can find his cartoons posted as far back as

the archives allow, without any concerns by mods or anyone else about copyright infringement.

'Toons are posted on DU every day, and I've never seen a concern before.

[MineralMan]

41. OK. I was just asking. There is a copyright notice on each

of the cartoons. The cartoonist's website says something about contacting him for reprint rights. But if it's OK with him, that's fine with me. I was just asking, you see.

[LWolf]

56. I'm not sure how to answer you.

Since DU has always printed whole cartoons, I'm not really sure where the difference lies, just that it has been standard practice for as long as I can remember.

[Ignis]

59. The difference, of course, is pragmatism.

It's only sensible to be selectively outraged!

[spoony]

77. I enjoy those outraged on behalf of copyright holders

while committing the same questionable "violation" by their avatar.

[Ignis]

98. I didn't see that same outrage over the "I can has MS Paint" edited versions.

That's curious, isn't it? :shrug:

I mean, if one were truly worried about exposing DU to the threat of copyright litigation, wouldn't one be up in arms over a ham-fisted chop job that retained Tom Tomorrow's name?

[MineralMan]

62. I have no idea. There's an email link on the site. You could ask

the cartoonist. See, I have made my living by writing most of my life. One time, someone just reprinted one of my articles. I asked the magazine I wrote it for about that. I got paid for the reprint.

Intellectual property comes with conditions. When I see a copyright notice, I figure the person who created it is trying to make a living through his or her work, and always ask before using the material. Usually, it's OK, as long as I'm not profiting from it. Similarly, material from my old mineral website, particularly photos, have been used worldwide, with permission. Some have even shown up in scientific papers, since I had photos of some very rare minerals. I was always happy to give permission, as long as it was not a commercial use. However, not all copyright holders feel the same way.

When in doubt, ask. That's the right thing to do.

[madinmaryland]

53. I have never seen you express those concerns to n2doc and her

toon threads? Why this one?

[Ignis]

60. Hmm, that's a puzzler.

We have daily toon round-up threads constantly in Page 1 of GD. Hard to miss, I'd think. :shrug:

[MineralMan]

64. I don't look at cartoon threads, so I have no idea.

I saw these in this thread. So I asked. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I just asked. Intellectual property is the property of the copyright holder. If it's republished without permission, that violates the copyright laws, which are designed to protect the creator of that property. It's really, really simple. Now, if you're one of those people who don't believe in copyright, you can take your chances.

[Ignis]

89. But you've never even noticed the title of one of the many threads?

I mean, GD is lousy with them most days, and they're all titled "<day> Toon Roundup" or something similarly obvious. Yet you've never scrolled through GD and noticed them? Not once?

C'mon, pull the other one. :eyes:

Intellectual property is the property of the copyright holder. If it's republished without permission, that violates the copyright laws, which are designed to protect the creator of that property. It's really, really simple. Now, if you're one of those people who don't believe in copyright, you can take your chances.

Again, if you feel so strongly that fair use is being violated--and thus putting DU at risk for litigation--you should hit Alert or contact an Admin. After all, posters who really do violate copyright aren't putting themselves at risk; they're putting DU at risk.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fair+use&l=1

[MineralMan]

63. I have no idea what threads you are talking about.

The thing is that I've made my living most of my life by creating intellectual content. When that content is used without permission, I get pretty annoyed. I have no idea what the creator of those cartoons thinks. There's an email address on his site. It's easy enough to ask.

When I've been asked, and it has been many times, I'm always happy to give permission to reuse my content, as long as it's not for a profit-making site. If it is, then I expect to be paid for my work. Each case is an individual one. Each content creator deserves a chance to say yes to a request for republication.

It's not just a good idea...it's the law. I don't know what cartoons from some other poster you are talking about. Maybe I haven't seen them. I'd have the same question, though. It's not politics...it's the copyright law. If there's a copyright notice on something, there's a reason for that. It means you can't use the material without permission. That's how it works.

If I saw the cartoons you're talking about, I'd have the same question.

[madinmaryland]

69. From today, my friend...

If this is such an issue, then please stand up and alert. Thank you, Sir.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8908186

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8908156

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8908177

Please feel free to make your concerns known in these threads, also.

[madinmaryland]

73. ** crickets **

[Ignis]

97. Hmm, no posts from our fierce copyright advocate in those threads yet.

Curious, no? :shrug:

[Ignis]

57. Here's how to contact the site admins:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/contact.html

You can also click "Alert" if you feel the DU Rules have been broken. Here's the relevant section of the rules:

Copyright issues and Bandwidth Theft

Do not post entire copyrighted articles. If you wish to reference an article, provide a brief excerpt and include a link to the original source. Generally, excerpts should not exceed three or four paragraphs.

Do not plagiarize.

Do not steal someone else's bandwidth by posting images that are hosted on another website. Democratic Underground is a high-traffic website, so posting images from other sites will cause their server load to increase dramatically, and might even cost the website owner money. If you wish to post an image from another website, you must contact the owner of the other website to get their consent.

Democratic Underground has the ability to block remote linking to images hosted on other websites. If you are a website administrator and you would like images from your website blocked, please send us an email to let us know.

Do not link or share copyrighted digital media such as mp3s or DVDs.

Wherever possible, please make an effort to link directly to the original source of an article, instead of linking to sites that have re-published someone else's content.

Either of those two options is more likely to produce results than this:

[MineralMan]

65. I'm not reporting anyone. I'm asking a question.

I do hope that's OK with you. For all I know, the poster has permission, so I asked the question. Isn't that more polite than reporting the poster? I think so.

[Ignis]

87. You're asking a question about site administration and/or the rules.

Thus, the chances of having your question answered completely and accurately rise dramatically when you ask it of the source. We peons can only point you towards the published DU rules or suggest you alert if you suspect rules violations.

However, I'm looking forward to seeing you ask the same probing question of every toon compilation thread in GD. We've have them almost daily for years.

Strange that you haven't done so yet--it's almost as if there were something special about this particular cartoon or cartoonist.

[Warren Stupidity]

70. ^ how this thread was lost ^

[WonderGrunion]

35. I personally find it to be Hopetastic!

To each their own.

[Jennicut]

16. WTF is a woodchuck anyway? In the northeast we call them groundhogs.

You know, they come out in February and if they see their shadows there is 5 more crappy weeks of winter left?
Ironically, our official state groundhog is called Chuckles (in CT).

[spoony]

24. A woodchuck is an animal that causes rage disorders. nt

[MineralMan]

30. Not really. Woodchucks or groundhogs are pretty inoffensive

rodents. Well, except for their burrowing habits, which can cause some damage. I have one in my backyard. She takes peanuts from my hand now, and I'm working on scratching her head.

[Jennicut]

37. LOL! They are cute. Just watch out for their teeth.

And they like to eat stuff from your gardens. I saw one once when I was working at a summer camp. He just stared at me and then ran away. We get a lot of them in CT.

[MineralMan]

43. Oh, I always respect the teeth. Even a peaceful woodchuck

has a pretty impressive set of front incisors. It's probably best not to annoy woodchucks from too close a position. Still, the peanuts will probably convince her that I mean her no harm. I'll take my time.

[WonderGrunion]

51. Will scritching them behind the ears annoy them?

Just want to make sure before I try.

[MineralMan]

61. So far, I haven't been able to do that. When I put my hand out, she

shows that she's not quite ready for that, yet. Reminds me of my first high school girlfriend. I'll give it some more time, since that seemed to work pretty well. :hide:

[MineralMan]

17. Take back the pragmatic avatar!

It's easy to do. I did it.

Just right click on the avatar and select Save as: to copy it to your hard drive, noting the file name and destination. Then, go to the Options menu, choose Edit Your Profile and upload your new avatar. It's all ready made for you to use, thanks to some kind individual.

It's OK to be a Democrat. Especially on Democratic Underground.

[WonderGrunion]

31. Thanks, I'll hijack the avatar "they" created

It seems to be really pissing off some in the liberal blogosphere.

[donco6]

72. I'm just happy to see you embracing your true identity.

It's really the start of any life change, you know.

[FrenchieCat]

34. Whatever it takes to win the war against those who want Republicans to win,

I support!

[WonderGrunion]

36. Exactly, there are only TWO parties in contention for power.

And if you're fighting against the Democrats and President Obama, you can truly only be fighting for one thing.

[MineralMan]

42. +10

[MadHound]

45. The fact that you are so obsessed with a cartoon,

Simply goes to show how politically, or perhaps otherwise, insecure you are.

[MineralMan]

66. Uh, it was others who started using that avatar. Perhaps you should

speak to them. It shows nothing but a reaction to those who originally copied part of a cartoon to use as an avatar. Anyone can do that, apparently. I believe the ownership in the image belongs to the artist, not to a group of DUers. You'll notice that I've changed my avatar, too. It's an option anyone can take.

[MadHound]

78. As yes, but after umpteen thread around this place,

Posted by those who were offended by others who took delight in the cartoon, I would say that at least some around here are obsessing over the whole manner in a way that is both entertaining, and rather disturbing that supposed adults are taking part.

[felix_numinous]

52. I don't know about this woodchuck icon

it reminds me of an old fart republican sock puppet, plus when I hear personal expression interpreted as whining, it does remind me of a republican I know, and this is giving me a headache. I support Obama but I am not going for this.

[Fire1]

54. I LOVE it!! LOL!!! n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

55. What's with this Woodchuck yo!

[Ignis]

58. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

- M. Gandhi

[MineralMan]

67. So what stage are you currently experiencing?

[Ignis]

88. Schadenfreude

Normally, I save that emotion for the Right, but when self-proclaimed "liberals" display months of petulance and tetchiness over a cartoon character--well, who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth?

[POAS]

90. I think that is what the Trojans said isn't it? n/t

[Ignis]

91. It's all Greek to me.

[donco6]

71. Not sure that was really the point of the cartoon, but maybe this will refresh

[WonderGrunion]

84. Well, the swastika wasn't always a Nazi symbol either.

Sometimes the meanings of things change over the time.

Godwin's Law for the win!

[VMI Dem]

85. You should try to take that one back too.

:hi:

[donco6]

93. Suit yourself.

We can all laugh at you, or at you.


OOPS, I meant "with you" - really.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

99. Proud woodchuck here !!!!!!

:patriot: