What the hell is with this constant BASHING of teachers and police officers

[bigdarryl]

I'm seeing this especially on the rethug side who has this reputation as to supporting police officers and not the democrats I know my union PBA supported more rethugs in the past than democrats. They even supported Governor FAT BOY of NEW JERSEY

[safeinOhio]

1. I have not seen anyone here

bashing cops for their pay and benefits. I think most here would like to see them raised to attract better people. Same for teachers. Any anti-labor folks are in the wrong place.

[ananda]

2. More scapegoating in a bad economy.

nt

[Pirate Smile]

3. Public servants - teachers, cops, firefighters, government workers are the new welfare queens to the

Republicans.

Government spending is just welfare for them.

This is the new Republican mantra.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

27. They were *always* depicted as "welfare queens." Anyone who is not a member of the private

Country Club are "welfare queens."

Sadly, it's working because we have a complacent corporate media, a disgustingly hateful right wing, and a tragically misinformed America public who are beginning to believe the rhetoric.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. someone must be giving orders?

[Pirate Smile]

5. Here is the plan:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8903528

By Greg Jones
Blacks4Barack
National Director

I frequently listen to the opposition, from Fox News to Rush, because I have always felt it very important to stay abreast of just how they're thinking. They don't know it, but I'm also on the email list to receive some of the right-wing emails/messages they send to their fellow Repubs. I received one today from Dick Morris, the guy who talks out of the side of his mouth as a regular pundit on Fox News. Morris, a former Democrat, was part of the Clinton administration and has re-devoted his life to Dem/Obama bashing.

Today I received Morris' latest email stating what he feels the Republican strategy should be if they were to regain control...his 'answer' to solving the economic problems created by the Bush Regime. To my amazement (I don't know why I'm so surprised), based on Morris, the Republican strategy is to literally block much needed financial aid to struggling states with the ultimate goal being to force all of the states INTO BANKRUPTCY ! They also plan to break ALL union agreements including wages, rules, pensions and more ! Not only does this explain why Repubs are voting against everything that could be helpful to The Recovery, but this email is absolutely, incredibly revealing and spells out exactly what we can expect should we allow the Repubs to regain power. Below are excerpts from the Morris email/newsletter. Truly dangerous stuff. Here's what Morris wrote:


*As Congress reconvenes next week to pass a $26 billion bailout of state and local governments entombed in their own deficits, we witness a foretaste of the crisis that will be the central event of the first half of next year: the collapse of state governments.

*As long as the Democrats control Congress, they will continue to rubber-stamp Obama's requests for bailouts of profligate states. But when the Republicans take control, they will be less than forthcoming. Republicans will ask the central question: Why should taxpayers from states that have cut their budgets and observed spending restraint, pay for the extravagances of the other states? Why should forty-seven states have to pay for California, New York, and Michigan?


*The Republican solution to state financial distress should be simple: The Party should insist on a change in the federal bankruptcy law providing for a procedure for state bankruptcy (none now exists). This process must call for abrogation (means=to end) of all state and local public employee union contracts as is usually done in private sector bankruptcies. By freeing states and local governments (including school boards) of their union obligations on wages, work rules, staffing, and pensions, they have a chance to survive and, indeed, to prosper. But merely subsidizing these massive expenditures just prolongs the misery of the states in question.

*The collapse of overspending state governments must trigger the diminution of the power unions hold over their budgets and their politics. Their coming bankruptcies offer an opportunity for reform and the Republican Congress - backed by newly elected Republican state governments - give us precisely the opportunity we need to effectuate it. (*=Excerpts from emailed Dick Morris.Com newsletter entitled "The Coming Catastrophe: State Governments")

FACT: If the Repubs regain power...
we're in BIG trouble as a nation.
The Time is NOW...TO FIGHT !

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. copies of his Morris's emails would make some excellent TV ads

[doc03]

6. It's because those are among the few occupations

that are represented by a Union. That's like bailing out Wall Street I didn't here anyone protesting that. It was when the government bailed out GM and Chrysler that employed UAW members when they started bitching, even some Democrats and Union members.

[rocktivity]

7. It's really about bashing their unions

Castrating labor power is a Rethuglican crime family value.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[lib2DaBone]

9. Repukes HATE unions. They know that a rising tide lifts all boats.....

but have been indoctrinated so long by talking points... they know the "Hate" unions.. but they can't remember why?

It "just is".. because Rush and Fox says it is so. Tea-Bag logic.

[JuniperLea]

10. Meg Whitman is running for Gov of CA...

She is fighting an uphill battle against "special interest groups" aka teachers, police, fire fighters... the same "special interest groups" Ahnold fought against. All the Repigs hate unions, and these three are on their top hit list.

Disgusting, isn't it?

Remember, people... "special interest groups" = unions, teachers, police, fire fighters!!!

Meg Witless is, well, Witless... and she didn't do any homework, otherwise she would have left alone all of Ahnold's failures... she's repeating them... guess that's all she's got! She never voted... what a moran.

[dkf]

11. Actually the problem is that public servants now make more than the private sector.

In better times good paying union jobs were able to support good paying public sector salaries. But in a time of hurt when union jobs are being cut and people can't find jobs at the same salaries if they can find jobs at all raising taxes on the already bleeding private sector worker to pay salaries of public employees who enjoy higher salaries and better benefits won't fly.

[Hansel]

12. No they don't. But nice right wing mythology there.

Maybe in the past they did, but public servants are paid barely on par or less than the private sector. I know, because I live with one. She makes about 20% less than a person doing the same job in the private sector would and her benefits are no where near as good as mine. Plus despite the fact that they keep piling on her job because of budget cuts, she is not allowed any overtime to finish her work.

This is the typical divide and conquer technique that the Republicans like to play. They want tax cuts. If they can get rid of public servants or make the vast majority of private sector workers believe public servants are getting some gravy wages and benefits, they can get the votes so they can continue to cut wages and benefits of public sector workers so that they can get their tax cuts. It's that simple.

Why any average American would root to have others paid less on behalf of greedy ass Republicans is beyond me. The public servants don't owe it to you to volunteer their time and they certainly are not being overpaid.

[dkf]

13. Federal pay ahead of private industry in 8 of 10 occupations.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

I've seen some other studies. I'll try to track it down.

http://docs.docstoc.com/pdf/846595/9bccfcde-2093-423d-a047-7dc1dd6e6bd5.pdf

Chicago federal reserve study shows average pay of state and local govts is $39.17 per hour vs $27.07 for private workers and I believe that doesn't take into account the better benefits of public sector workers where even part time employees can qualify for retirement benefits.

[Hansel]

14. Maybe. I'm talking state workers who are usually the ones being bashed.

At least in our local papers. And teachers and police are state workers.

Edit to correct: Teachers and police are not federal employees. My daughter works at a state college so she is a state worker. I think other teachers and police are subsidized by the state but might be local workers.

Also, federal workers may be paid more on an average because they are higher educated, just like teachers. But for comparable work in the private section I would bet that all government workers are paid less.

[dkf]

19. See second link. Those are state and local workers.

Average salaries are $39.18 for public and $27.07 for private done by one of the reserve banks.

http://docs.docstoc.com/pdf/846595/9bccfcde-2093-423d-a047-7dc1dd6e6bd5.pdf

Anyone will tell you private school teachers makes less than public school teachers and security guards make less than police officers. School janitors make more than your office cleaner too.

[LostinVA]

22. "Average salaries are $39.18 for public and $27.07 for private"

hahahahahahaha

SIDE SPLITTING COMEDY ON THE DU TONIGHT!!!!!!!

hahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaha

[dkf]

28. You do realize that is from the Chicago Federal Reserve?

[Go2Peace]

38. You do realize the largest component of "Private sector" jobs are retail and food service??? DUH!

If anything this points out a serious problem with what is happening to jobs in the country.

But your argument, that we cannot afford and must slash everyone's wages, is not only counterproductive, it is not supportable.

You say that we cannot afford to pay for our government. But yet, if you take all GNP we are more PROSPEROUS than we have *ever* been in this decade. You slash the percentage of gross profits that end up paying for services (through taxes on higher brackets, and super concentrate the money and of course we can't afford anything. Granted government needs reform. It has been under attack for decades.

You make a false, and REPUBLICAN, argument that avoids the reality and instead goes for the short term thinking solutions that got us here. You are out of step friend. Democrats generally are looking for well thought and future looking policies. They don't get into the dash to the bottom politics of the right.

[MikeW]

15. i dont know

Looks like they pulled skewed numbers from the GS table.

Some of those salaries look like starting salaries in the private sector and the comparable fed salary IS NOT a

starting GS salary.

I think this study has an agenda.

[dkf]

29. Well if you can find some other numbers....

[Go2Peace]

17. Nice selective use of stats. State and Local pay less than average

All any of this says is that Unions have done a better job of keeping closer to inflation than the private sector. So what essentially you are arguing for is the dissolution of the power of unions, which is quite an anti-democratic party idea, not to mention does not recognize the importance of unions in American prosperity.

Be careful friend. This site takes people who propagate anti-union propaganda very seriously. They tombstoned someone yesterday for making almost the same arguments you are.

The answers to our problems are not to pile on the only sector (union jobs) that has held up against the onslought of darwinian drive to the bottom economics. Instead, as democrats, we should fight for policies that make the country better.

[dkf]

23. If the salaries of the general population collapses can they afford to have taxes raised to keep

Or increase public sector wages? This is a debate they are having at conferences and at the Federal Reserve and we can't discuss it here? Wow. Just wow.

[Go2Peace]

32. That is not the "discussion" that is being had

Why disguise it to make it look more palitable on a board that tends toward liberal? Because you *know* well what is being discussed. They are going after pensions and after cutbacks that produce layoffs, and after breaking the unions.

[MikeW]

46. and its its no longer true

That Federal employee pensions are some fat paycheck.

Under CSRS we dont get anything near what they rec. on the old FERS system.

Our current pension plan is small it INCLUDES dependencey on socail security and then you have your own

TSP investments (exactly like 401K for private sector).

This report is a bunch of crap regarding salaries.

AND while im at it my blue cross is more expensive than my wife's private insurance.

I have NO DENTAL (the government doesnt have national dental) and NO VISION either.

[AngryAmish]

25. The one thing we can all agree on : private sector workers are utter shit.

scumbags. filth.

[Go2Peace]

33. what? Nobody is saying that. Show me an OP that says that?

[MichiganVote]

18. Really? What is your source for this comparison?

[dkf]

30. Two links here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=402728&mesg_id=402780

[LostinVA]

21. hahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahaha

That's all the Classifdied Staff in Virginia laughing their asses off at your statement.

I've worked both private and public, the latter in NC and VA, and you are so mistaken it is not even funny.

[dkf]

31. Govts jobs are less stratified.

Your position might make less than your private counterpart but your room cleaner probably makes many times my room cleaner.

[Go2Peace]

34. Sure, because most room cleaners and fast feed joints pay poverty wages

Governments generally don't pay poverty wages, so of course you can skew things and make it look like you are making a fair argument.
You should talk about this on a conservative board, where people are not as well educated and know that comparisons like you are offering only show one side and are selective. You would have better luck there.

[dkf]

42. This was in the federal reserve study. Did you even read it?

You guys just blindly pooh pooh stuff without even looking at it. Jeez.

[LostinVA]

41. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

$8/hr

[CreekDog]

40. SEC regulators make more than private sector employees in the securities market?

lawyers for the government make more than lawyers in the private sector?

chemists for the FDA make less than chemists working for the pharmaceutical industry?

presidents of the United States make more than presidents of companies?

[LostinVA]

43. The attorneys argument is especially silly

Most new State attorneys make around 34-45K, whereas a LOW salary for a corporate firm's first-year associate is 140-145k. Most states have alot of trouble recruiting and keeping attorneys.

[nemo137]

16. Delegitimzing government.

That's their long-term goal.

[treestar]

20. No there isn't

What do you mean by bashing? Disagreeing with someone? I see a lot of posts claiming Obama is turning his back on teachers, etc., is "bashing" disagreeing with that concept?

[Hansel]

24. I think the OP is talking about the new meme

that the right is using to bash teachers and police as being paid too much and that their wages and benefits should be cut because taxpayers shouldn't have to pay them so much.

Our local paper's comment section is loaded with Tea Baggers constantly bashing public workers, especially teachers and police, because they supposedly get paid more than anyone in the world and get completely free benefits. It's a divide and conquer campaign. It's basically a redux of the welfare queen wearing fur coats and driving Cadillacs.

[Go2Peace]

35. Exactly. And the only "counter" argument coming from our Party is

"you have a point, .....but". Because we are so afraid to actually counter and are afraid we end up adding fire to their fuel by our silence.

The only voices countering this crud is the small liberal media. One of these days we might figure out that if we articulate vision and confidence in our values people actually respond!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

26. They've been calling in all the talk shows and repeating all the talking points from the wingnuts.

They seem to be from New Jersey. The fat-ass governor has been doing a great job targeting teachers, lying about how teachers are being paid too much. (The same lie against the unions.) The problem is that these talking points are being repeated over and over and over and over again until even smart people like my father begin to believe it.

Fattie is trying to deflect blame from himself and direct it to the teachers, fire fighters, cops, first responders...all public sector jobs.

Why are Americans so fucking stupid!!!!

[Go2Peace]

36. And we have our own little anti-government/anti-union voices here as well

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

37. I've noticed that as of late. I work for the federal government, and I've seen posts

that suggests that I get paid too much, even though I live in D.C., have two masters and a Ph.D., with a school loan that most people wouldn't dare take on. And yet, I'm seeing people 'round these parts on the forum suggesting that somehow state and federal employees are paid too much! Fuck, I wish!!!

[AnnieBW]

39. My father was a high-school math teacher

Later he was a guidance counselor, then he became a vice-principal and later a principal. He was NOT a "welfare queen" (or king). We didn't have two cars until Mom went back to work when I was in fifth grade. Yes, their last two cars were Caddies. But they're RETIRED. My Mom always said that she was going to get a Cadillac when she retired, and she did. We weren't poor, but we certainly weren't rich. I didn't have a lot of the advantages that other kids that I grew up with did, and certainly not what kids today have.

When people bitch about teacher's unions, I always roll my eyes. Dad got his degree from the G.I. Bill, or else he'd be working in the factory like his father and brothers did. Teacher's unions do a lot for the teachers and the kids.

[Orsino]

44. It's a measure of the incredible trust we have historically placed in these professions...

...which exacerbates the inevitable abuses.

We thought that as long as we threw them money, they'd keep things running smoothly. Then, because things seemed to run so smoothly, we began letting the War Pigs shunt away more and more of that money, until even getting by became untenable.

[Greyhound]

45. False equivalency, n/t

:kick: & U

[MikeW]

47. dont worry Federal Employees are now in the bullseye this week