The Plumline: On Harry Reid throwing both Obama and whole Dem caucus under the bus

[flpoljunkie]

(What politicians won't do when they are in a tight re-election! I wish he had thought better of it. Why do some Dems always fall for the Republicans' hateful wedge issues.)

Reid calls for mosque to be built "someplace else"

Harry Reid is breaking with the President, claiming that while he respects freedom of religion, he's not willing to support an Islamic center near Ground Zero.

Specifically, says Reid spokesman Jim Manley, he thinks the "mosque" should be built "some place else":

The First Amendment protects freedom of religion. Senator Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else. If the Republicans are being sincere, they would help us pass this long overdue bill to help the first responders whose health and livelihoods have been devastated because of their bravery on 911, rather than continuing to block this much-needed legislation.

The second most powerful Democrat in the country is not willing to support the President in his efforts to defend the right of Muslims to build a cultural center on private property, if the site in question is in the vicinity of Ground Zero. This comes after his opponent, Sharron Angle, attacked him on the issue this morning.

Some are pointing out that Reid, by citing the First Amendment and religious freedom, is reaffirming the group's right to build the project. That's true. But it's not terribly relevant in the current political context. First off, that's not a difficult position to take. Many Republicans also respect the group's right to build, while claiming that the group is wrong to exercise that right.

Despite Reid's reaffirmation of this right, his response is still weak and indefensible. And it leaves the President hanging after he took a big risk to do the right thing. Obama did not explicitly endorse the decision to build the center. But Obama did say that if the group does proceed with that decision, we must respect that decision, in accordance with American values.

Reid is not willing to say that. Rather, he's saying, in effect, that even if he supports the group's right to build the center, he's not willing to respect the decision to do so. That's unacceptable, and leaves Obama isolated at a very sensitive moment.

What's more, it's unclear why coming out against the plan in the manner Reid did is even good politics for Democrats at this point. Reid basically threw the whole Dem caucus under the bus: With the Senate leader at odds with the president, the media will press every Senate Dem to declare which side they're on.

And this fuels a bad narrative for Dems, too. Literally seconds after Reid's statement hit the wire, Republicans blasted out a press release mocking the Dem disarray on this issue with this tagline: "Great moments in August Democratic Messaging." This just makes the Dems look weak, unorganized, cowardly, and unwilling to take a stand for principles they plainly believe in.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/breaking_reid_calls_for_mosque.html

[RandomThoughts]

1. Who is building the mosque?

Private companies.

Anyone got a problem with that?

The whole issue is perspective to create noise.

[flpoljunkie]

2. Creating a 'wedge' issue requires noise. The Republicans are very good at this.

Too bad Harry Reid fell into their trap.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

17. it's not a Mosque

[Honeycombe8]

20. What private companies? Whose $ is funding it?

It's okay to ask questions. Simple questions. There should be simple answers.

You go down my street and ask the Methodist Church who funded the building of their church years ago, and tell them there's a good reason to ask (like some of the people belonging to the Methodist Church used that religion's beliefs as proof for the justness of their murders of a few thousand people)...I have no doubt that the Methodist Church would release a list of the funders, to show that it's all on the up and up. They might not release it to the public, but they would surely show it to some leaders in private, on condition donors' names not be released to the public. I'm positive it would. After all, why wouldnt it? That would be a simple way to dispell any discomfort and worry about the presence of the Church or any threat it might pose (some might say a reasonable worry, given the circumstances).

[dflprincess]

3. If New York City is okay with this

why does anyone else even think their opinion should matter?

[flpoljunkie]

4. That's beside the point. It's evidently a great 'wedge' issue for the Republicans for the mid-terms

Ahhh, Sacred Ground

Josh Marshall
August 16, 2010, 5:20PM

Welcome to the New York Dolls strip club, about a block from the site of the Cordoba House Islamic cultural center.

[seattleblue]

13. New York City is not okay with this.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/New-Yorkers-Oppose-Ground-Zero-Mosque-Poll-97602569.html Most in the city oppose it.

[dflprincess]

15. From your link

Broken down by borough, Manhattan was the most in favor of the mosque, with only 36 percent of residents against it. On the other end of the spectrum was Staten Island, where 73 percent of respondents were opposed.

According to the poll, 56 percent of white voters, 45 percent of black voters, and 60 percent of Hispanic voters oppose the mosque. Along religious lines, 66 percent of Jews, 66 percent of Catholics, and 46 percent of Protestants were opposed.

The poll also researched New Yorkers' opinions of Islam. Fifty-five percent of New Yorkers believe that mainstream Islam is a "peaceful religion, while only 22 percent said Islam "encourages violence against non-Muslims." Twenty-three percent of New Yorkers are undecided. The full report can be found here.

Quinnipiac researchers questioned 1,183 registered New York City voters from June 21-28. The margin of error was approximately 2.9 points.

I wonder if the poll asked about a mosque or a community center - which is actually what the proposal is. There's already a mosque in the area.

[nyc 4 Biden]

24. 90% of the folks I know are ok with it.

it really is a ridiculous issue. telling someone where they can and cannot build based on their religion is not right.

[Chris P. Bacon]

16. The Constitution trumps polls among New York City residents

That's why.

If members of a particular city support doing something anti-constitutional, they're on the wrong side of the debate, if we assume the Constitution isn't just any piece of paper.

[dflprincess]

19. I agree

really, no one's opion trumps the Constitution.

I read somewhere that the plan was approved by the local community board (don't remember it's official name) by a vote of 19-1. I believe their authority is like any planning commission's, it looks over a project and makes sure it fits all the codes and use requirements for an area and they said this project fits just fine. I would think it's preferable to an empty store front.

My point really wasn't that New Yorkers have a right to ignore the Constitution but that, if Bloomberg and other New Yorkers aren't in hysterics, and the local planning commission could see beyond prejudice and decide this was good for the area then these jerks that are no where near NYC have no business fanning the flames.

[Honeycombe8]

21. The issue isn't legality. It's doing what's right, or at least trying to dispell worries...

very real worries. They could have a discussion w/leaders of victims' families, answer a few questions (like who is paying for the Center), assure the victims that their intent is friendly or at least neutral, etc., etc.

But they took an aggressive stance: We have the right to do this, we are paying the City Council a lot of money so that they'll let us do this, and the City Council has approved the building permit. So there. Take your concerns elsewhere; it doesn't concern us.

Doesn't do a lot to ease the fear and worry. To express concern does not make people bigots.

No one is saying they don't have the LEGAL right. It was legal to own slaves once. It was legal to deny women the right to vote. Lots of things have been legal, but weren't right.

[flpoljunkie]

5. Sharron Angle responds on Twitter to Reid's opposition to the Ground Zero Islamic Center

Sharron Angle responds on Twitter to Harry Reid's opposition to the Islamic center near Ground Zero:

Nice of you to join us, @HarryReid.

In other words, all coming out against the project accomplished was to allow Angle and Republicans to claim -- rightly -- that they're setting the agenda and that Reid only took his position in response to her criticism.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/happy_hour_roundup_73.html

[dflprincess]

14. Whoops posted in wrong spot n/t

[Uzybone]

6. Reid should go fuck himself

This cowardice because of reading polls is really annoying.

[Honeycombe8]

22. What makes you think he doesn't really feel that way? Most people in the country do,

according to the polls I saw.

And given that Reid is himself a moderate Democrat from a moderate state, it's not surprising that he'd hold that view. I hold that view, and I hold some pretty liberal views on certain issues.

Well, I don't hold that precise view. My view is that the leaders of the mosque should do something to ease what I see as real concern and worry about the mosque. They can be more expressive in their assurances that everything will be fine, it's just a regular center and mosque, etc., etc. And they can let some NYC leaders see the list of funders. And the mosque leader can explain the statement that the US is partly to blame for the 911 incident (sort of like saying a beaten up wife was partly to blame because she provoked the violent husband. Some people truly believe that. But of course the legal view is...no matter what someone says or does, you have no right to beat them up, unless it's in self defense.)

[karynnj]

7. What I resent is that no one is asking what the residents of lower Manhattan think

The Manhattan Community board passed this 29 to 1, with 10 abstentions. No exactly a close vote. Mayor Bloomberg is in favor of it. Manhattan is an incredibly diverse area - that already has mosques in that area and others - and they cause no trouble.

Where do people in the rest of the country get off when they want the site of the WTC kept forever as a wound. It is nearly 9 years ago and there are still fights over what to build - most of which were symbolic without consideration of what was needed by Manhattan. (The idea - that stemmed mostly from elsewhere to rebuild them - possibly higher - never made any sense. It is abundantly clear that those buildings would be targets. Would you accept a job offer (if you had choices), if it was there? This is a building that was formerly a Burlington Coat Factory building! It also can not be seen from the site of the WTC hole (where of course no one is if they are not there for construction purposes.) Buildings in lower Manhattan are BIG - 2 blocks away can not be seen unless you are at a high enough floor - and there are no floors at the WTC. (This is why the picture that the right paints - that the WTC is now a hole and standing above it is this mosque is crazy - and shows they know the bulk of their audience has never been to NYC.

Maybe we can make a deal with these red staters, they IGNORE anything that is built in Manhattan and those of us in Manhattan or near it will not comment on any buildings in Nevada, Texas or Georgia!

[Imajika]

8. I think a majority of New Yorkers oppose it as well..

At least from the few polls I remember seeing about it. Those might have been of people from New York state and not just the city though.

Anyway, this thing is unpopular. No two ways about it. Yes, we know it is a BS wedge issue, but sometimes wedge issues work. Sometimes politicians simply can't say and do the right thing all the time. Get out too far ahead of popular opinion on an emotional issue like this and an otherwise excellent politician can get bounced out in favor of some wingnut. Reid is not an excellent politician, but he is vastly better than Angle - and despite all the wishful thinking here about how Angle couldn't possibly win, polling tells a different story.

Would be nice if the public actually considered this thing in a reasoned, intellectual way - but they don't now and probably never will. Human nature is what it is.

While I was proud of Obama saying the right thing about this on Friday night, I rather suspect we would all be better off if he had just not addressed this issue at all.

[flpoljunkie]

11. I don't think those who live in Manhattan, where Islamic Center will be built, oppose it.

[karynnj]

12. But most of the people of Manhattan do.

Parts of NY are hundreds of miles from NYC - Suburban NJ is closer.

[Jennicut]

10. I totally agree. I don't live that far from New York or NYC in particular.

But even as someone in the next state over in CT, I feel it is not up to me to tell the residents of NYC what to do.

[rury]

9. Harry Reid is a spineless jellyfish

[Rosa Luxemburg]

18. I guess even jellyfish are entitled to their opinion - it's not a Mosque by the way

[oasis]

23. I can't blame Harry for finally looking out for himself.