Oooops. Big progressive hero Howard Dean Comes Out AGAINST Cordoba House

[impik]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/18/894321/-Shocker:-Howard-Dean-Comes-Out-AGAINST-Cordoba-House


Can't wait to read the comments.

[Common Sense Party]

1. "A big affront"?

"Another site would be a better idear."

[JamesA1102]

2. Why is anyone surprized by this?

Dean was the most conservative Democratic Governor back in the '90s. He started as a New York Republican and only switched parties to run in Vermont.

[dsc]

14. I lived in MS in the 1990's and can say, without a doubt

that the two Democratic governors they had in the 1990's were way more conservative than Dean or any other northern Democratic governor. In short, your post is ridiculous.

[JamesA1102]

24. You post no proof and resort to insults.

And let me also note that Gov. Dean was very close with the AIPAC lobby as well as with the NRA.

[dsc]

27. I vividly remember the gay rights bill that those MS governors signed

no wait, I remember no such thing. I vividly remember the program those governors produced insuring every single solitary child in MS, no wait I remember no such thing. I vividly remember those governors appointing gay legislators and judges, no wait I remember no such thing. I vividly remember those governors opposing the Iraq war, no wait I remember no such thing.

[JamesA1102]

28. Do you vividly remember their names?

Or that the Iraq war didn't begin in the 1990's but in 2003?

[dsc]

31. they are still alive you know

and could well have spoken out about it. Gov. Mabus and Gov Musgrove.

[JamesA1102]

42. Weak comeback.

And according to wikipedia Ray Mabus was only Governor until 1992 and was defeated by a Republican, Kirk Fordice, who was Governor until 2000. Ronnie Musgrove did not become Governor until after the '90s were over.

So for most of the 90s, MS had a Republican Governor.

Also according to Wikipedia about Ray Mabus:

"During his time as governor, he passed B.E.S.T. (Better Education for Success Tomorrow), one of the most comprehensive education reform programs in America; gave teachers the largest pay raise in the nation."

[dsc]

47. I didn't say he was a horrible governor

I met him and thought he was terrific but to say he was a liberal, or more liberal than Dean was absurd.

[JamesA1102]

69. I never said he was more liberal than Dean.

You put those words in my mouth.

[provis99]

44. I agree with you there.

Mabus and Musgrove may have been as liberal as a Mississippi governor will get, but they would be on the right-wing fringes any where outside of the South. But at least they were better than those closet Klansmen Fordice and Barbour.

[hlthe2b]

3. well, that's disappointing... n/t

[derby378]

4. As I said earlier...

...Dean seems to want an exclusion zone around Ground Zero where no churches, synagogues, or mosques are built.

[karynnj]

25. There's a major problem to that -

There were churches directly across the street from the WTC. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=51%20park%20place%20nyc&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

St Paul's chapel - http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/congregation/spc/ which is the oldest public building in continuous use in the US - which opened in 1766 - George Washington prayed there. "Despite being directly across from the site of the World Trade Centre, this little church was relatively undamaged in he aftermath of the attack - an ancient Sycamore tree fell over and its branches acted as a shield to save the church from almost certain destruction." (copied from one of the reviews - http://maps.google.com/maps?q=51%20park%20place%20nyc&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl (I worked in one of the small WTC buildings in the 1970s, and remember going over with co-workers to see this church and the gardens around it.)

and

St Peter's which is the oldest Roman Catholic parish in NYC - built in 1840. It currently has the cross that was made from WTC beams. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter%27s_Roman_Catholic_Church,_New_York

[Uzybone]

26. That is a more stupid idea

Why shouldn't I be able to built a place of worship on my property?

Unless he is advocating the government take control of all areas around Ground Zero.

[mrdmk]

5. I hear this and I hear that, most of it being a lot of bullshit

What I do not hear is from is the people who constructing the Cordoba House. Where is their story?

[bluestateguy]

6. And yet I'm for it, and I'm considered the one who is the DLC/CorporateWhore/BlueDog

Go figure.

[Gman]

13. LOL! Me too!

DLC/CorporateWhore/BlueDog/troll, etc. and I'm for it. I don't think there's any question, much less debate necessary.

[Arkana]

46. Bingo.

[iamthebandfanman]

68. guess you either recognize basic freedoms

or you dont.

;)


that and whether or not ur religious probably has some baring on it too

[Tarheel_Dem]

70. Thank You. That "brave" Howard Dean, following the polls again.

I guess he's not the Second Coming afterall. :thumbsup:

[DrDan]

7. oh brother - stoning people to death is from the "14th century"

but hanging or poison or a belt of electricity or a bullet to the head is ok.

[Gman]

8. I didn't hear him say he was against it

He said he thought a compromise could be worked out. And for that matter, I really don't recognize that as Dean's voice on the youtube video. I've never heard Dean pronounce the word "idea" as "id-e-er".

[dkf]

16. I-d-eer is totally Howard Dean.

Damn he is actually coming through for me on this. Now this is a peacemaker.

[Gman]

20. I never noticed it before...

[dkf]

35. I met him a few times.

And I used to watch out for him on TV. He is the reason I got involved. He is still the smartest politician I know of.

[JI7]

41. he has always procounced idea as "id--e-er"

[madfloridian]

9. Actually, did Breitbart edit this? Also Dean uses the word "compromise"

and speaks freely about respecting their religion.

Do I agree with him? Not really on this.

But did Breitbart just do it again? Dean did not say it should be moved, he said it was one possibility.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. No one could have predicted that Dean would shoot his mouth off.

[smalll]

11. Oooh! WORLDVIEW IMPLOSION!

:nuke: :crazy: :nuke:

Also,

Under

The

Bus!

[ProSense]

12. Glenn Greenwald

Howard Dean: "mosque" should move

Certain things are disappointing and surprising even for the most hardened cynics. Hearing Howard Dean -- the former liberal standard-bearer -- join Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin by saying the following is definitely one of them:

<...>


UPDATE: After hearing Dean say this, I wrote on Twitter: "Please: nobody ask Russ Feingold what he thinks of Park51 - really couldn't stomach hearing him say it should move - difficult race or not." Thanks to amites for pointing out that Feingold -- in an extremely difficult re-election battle in a purple state -- has already spoken out in favor of the community center remaining right where it is. Just as impressively, Alexi Giannoulias -- the Democratic nominee for Senate in Illinois (for Obama's old seat) who is also in a very close race -- came out and strongly supported Park51 as well. So those two stand in stark and impressive contrast to Dean. And see this Ann Tenales cartoon suggesting a new campaign ad for Harry Reid.

[karynnj]

48. I object to Greenwald refering to Dean as the former liberal stand-bearer

for 2 reasons.

Dean is now more liberal than he was as Governor and even then he was in 2004. Implying he is no longer liberal over one comment, where his position seems ambiguous is really having too much an "under the bus" mentality for me.

The second reason is that Dean was never the standard bearer - John Kerry, who is more liberal than Dean, was. Now, of course, Obama, who is as liberal is the standard bearer.

[ProSense]

55. It's a sign of the

flawed thinking some people engage in.

[davidkc]

74. My opinion about Dean's comments: Glenn Greenwald sucks! nt

[davidkc]

75. Who said he is "no longer liberal"?

?

[Uzybone]

15. Wow....holding further comment until we make sure this isn't a Breitbart type job

very disappointing from Dean.

Then again...maybe not so much. Dean isn't as liberal as many think.

[CBR]

17. This is the LAST straw for Dean!!! I will never support him again!!!!!

:rofl:


He is wrong on this. IMO.

[geek tragedy]

18. Still suffers from foot-in-mouth disease. nt

[flpoljunkie]

19. The resistance is mostly political-- a wedge issue ginned up by the GOP for the mid-terms

Howard Dean may think he is protecting cowardly Dems, but he's wrong.

[geek tragedy]

21. Now hiring for the following position:

"Leader, Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party."

[DFLforever]

23. LOL. First prize to you.

:evilgrin:

[CBR]

34. +1000.... LOL! nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

72. But is there anyone "pure" enough? I certainly wouldn't apply.

:rofl:

[Ignis]

22. Good thing this video wasn't posted by Breitbart.

If that were the case, we might not rush to take it at face value.

[ProSense]

29. Think Progress Transcript

Dean suggests ‘compromise’ on Park 51: No point doing ‘something good’ if met with ‘enormous resistance.’

[Uzybone]

30. wow. very cowardly by Dean

isn't there always resistance to good?

[Hansel]

43. Yep. Guess there's no point in progressive candidates running for office.

Or trying to resolve the immigration issue. Or trying to stop any form of discrimination. Or encouraging religious tolerance. Or trying to reform drug laws so people's lives aren't destroyed. Or trying to get a public option in HCR. Or trying to do anything that helps the middle class.

This must be the philosophy of our Senators as well.

Let's all curl up in a fetal position and let the bigots reign.

[karynnj]

50. Reading the transcript, Dean is clearly misinformed - which is better than if he weren't and said

this. From context, he clearly thinks this is part of the WTC site itself, which might be why he says it is for everyone.

I think some prominent news people or politicians need to get the true geography out there. There is no visibility of ground zero from the site and you won't see the site from ground zero. It is next door to a bar, that from all desriptions I would not enter. One block behind it, is a strip club. Apparently these are ok.

[MrsBrady]

65. KO did a whole segment on this the other night.

Did u see it? The building that it's going to be in was damaged
on 9/11 and has been vacant since.
Nobody wanted the damaged building, until now.
And yes, it's not even visible from the wtc site.

[karynnj]

53. I'm glad there are people who fight for decades - in spite of resistance -

for things that are important to them. Martin Luther King jr kind of knew there would be enormous resistance.

I have been enormously impressed that in spite of enormous effort being blocked by the Republicans, Kerry is still working hard on climete change. (He must be doing enough because the Washington Times has an editorial that essentially claims it would be wrong to pass something in the lame duck session.)

[Arkana]

61. Wow, what would Dean have said about the Freedom Riders

and the sit-ins in Greensboro? How about the day James Meredith tried to enroll at Ole Miss or the day Orval Faubus called out the National Guard to stop black children from enrolling in a white public school in Arkansas?

Where's the firebrand from the 2004 elections? Where's the genius head of the DNC? I can only hope he's misinformed and does not realize where the building will be--because the alternative is far too shameful.

[Phx_Dem]

32. I wonder if Dean is against free speech too?

[totodeinhere]

33. It's funny how so many posters here are more than willing to throw anybody under the bus,

even Howard Dean, who disagrees with them about anything.

[Mass]

36. Even good people are wrong sometimes. Reading the transcript makes me think

that he was speaking about an issue he is poorly informed about.

[DFLforever]

37. Be nice if DUers could keep that in mind

and apply it to a few more prominent Democrats.

[Mass]

38. I could not agree more.

[karynnj]

54. same here - he sounds like he think it is on ground zero proper nt

[Jennicut]

39. If this is true then I never though I would see the day when Ted Olson made more sense then Howard

Dean. I was never a backer of Dean in the primaries in 2004 but I came to deeply respect him. How utterly disappointing. And I am proud of our Prez...he had "no regrets" today. Damn the political consequences, he did the right thing. Sometimes the public is wrong.

[hulka38]

40. I saw Jordan miss a dunk one time.

Still the greatest - Jordan that is.

[Arkana]

45. This I absolutely cannot believe. He AND Nancy Pelosi are following Reid's lead?

Dean's not even an elected official! He has no reason to care what the right thinks!

[ProSense]

49. Pelosi did not say the building should be moved

She initially said that there should be an investigation into who is funding the attacks against the center, but then issued a clarification that she was for transparency. Still her only comment was that it was a local issue, not that it should be moved.

[Arkana]

51. Ah, OK.

That's better, but somehow not much better.

[ProSense]

52. Dean stands by remarks

Dean Stands By Mosque Remarks, Charges Liberal Critics With Being Inflexible

In an interview late Wednesday, former DNC Chair Howard Dean reiterated his belief that the controversial "Ground Zero" mosque should be re-located, arguing that critics of his position were "guilty of" the same type of absolutism on the issue that they've accused Republicans of harboring.

The former Governor of Vermont told the Huffington Post that he "stood by" the remarks he had made earlier in the day on WABC radio in which he called the mosque plan "a real affront to people who lost their lives ." But in a clarification of sorts, he stressed that he would not have a problem if the proposed Islamic cultural center ultimately ended up being built in the current location.

"It won't upset me," Dean said, "except I think it is a missed opportunity to show some flexibility... I don't believe all this nonsense the right wing is putting out about radicals and all that stuff. I take the congregation at its word that it is a moderate congregation trying to heal the wounds of 9/11. But the best way to heal the wounds is not to have a court battle, but to sit down and try to work things out."

As Dean explained, the purpose of the Ground Zero mosque -- which is, in essence, to promote cross-cultural reconciliation -- became irrevocably compromised once the controversy began bubbling around the project. This is no fault of the planners behind the Cordoba House, Dean acknowledged. Nor was there any debate that the constitution was on their side. But that didn't nullify the argument that they would be better served

<...>

Well, it's a good thing Dean wasn't around to advise Rosa Parks.

[saltpoint]

57. Dean's a peach but I think he's got this one wrong.

[Tarheel_Dem]

73. "Dean Stands By Mosque Remarks, Charges Liberal Critics With Being Inflexible "

"Inflexible Liberal Critics"? There's no such animal, just ask Prez Obama. :rofl:

[ecstatic]

56. It's surprising when these things come up and we find out we're not all on the same page

i thought it was a no brainer that they have the right to build a mosque wherever allowed. FFS, I thought we'd all be unanimous on that.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

58. No point in doing it if it will be met with resistance?!

Are you fucking KIDDING ME? Dr. Dean, with all due respect, you were the guy who helped the Democratic Party its spine after the 2004 Election. Now you're telling us we should abandon principle because some asshat in Alabama is going to be in a snit?

Screw that.

[LittleBlue]

59. What a bigoted twat

He has stained himself permanently with this display of bigotry.

[CTLawGuy]

60. what burns me up the most about the opposition to the Cordoba House

is the implicit presumption that all Muslims are morally responsible for what the 9-11 hijackers did, that 1.5 Billion people are accountable for what a few wackjobs did, so it would be "insensitive" to put their cultural center near there.

[Jennicut]

62. Yup. Let's group em all in together. No wonder the United States comes off looking intolerant.

[frazzled]

63. Not only that: he doesn't even seem to understand the facts

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/08/maybe_better_not_to_speak_at_all.php?ref=fpblg

But frankly, it doesn't surprise me all that much. I like Howard Dean, but he's never impressed me as being one of the brightest bulbs on the tree.

[Jefferson23]

64. He should be ashamed of himself, horrible position. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

66. I don't know that I can stomach this from anyone. Flexibility on basic rights is not something I

find laudable or reasonable. Dean is feeding the bigots and give comfort to their worldview.

Some issues are one strike and under the bus. Being good on most subjects but horrible on religious freedom and establishment doesn't cut it.

There is no peace to be made and no middle ground to be found, you support American values and the fundamental basis of our law or not.

[iamthebandfanman]

67. oh noes i guess that means nobody can have an opposing opinion!#$ n/t

[Honeyporter735]

71. I agree with Howard

okay kids, flame away.

[bvar22]

76. DU is an amazing place.

Dr Dean AGREES with President Obama on an issue,
and the most hardened supporters of President Obama ATTACK Howard Dean?

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

77. This is an utter disgrace!

Howard Dean should be ashamed of himself to sell out the religious liberties of others and encourage bigotry and intolerance.