So, if Obama gets the credit for "ending the war in Iraq"...

[Jokerman]

does that mean that he will also get the blame when Iraq remains unstable, as it most likely will?

By accepting credit for Bush's withdrawal plan, we're just giving the right-wing ammo for the inevitable accusations that the troops were pulled out too soon.

[denimgirly]

1. Damned Either Way -- Welcome to being a Democrat.

It's all about the oil and when that is the case and money is involved a region will always be rife with corruption and instability. Nothing unexpected. Iraq is controllably unstable right now which will expectedly rise in instability over the years. But by that time Obama will be out of office and kicking back on $millions of appearance fees like Clinton.

[DevonRex]

2. Look, they told you NOT to take the blue pills.

Now you're gonna need a guide from New Mexico. They're the best.

[zipplewrath]

3. that's the strange part about his choice

By executing a withdrawl plan that Bush probably didn't even expect to execute, he basically accepted the plan Bush made. Okay, there's a political calculation there of CYA with the right if and when things go to hell. "I accepted the plan that Bush negotiated and didn't want to try to renegotiate". I don't like the concept, but it has its political calculation.

But he is now trying to do the whole "I got us out if Iraq". Well, yeah, I suspect he will considering that Bush/McCain never intended to get this far. But if he was going to take ownership of it, why not do something for which he could truly claim credit, such as accelerating it. He seems to lose both ways here. He had little to do with it, and it may go to shit. How's that gonna work out for him?

[JuniperLea]

11. Reagan took credit for the Berlin Wall..

:shrug:

[ProSense]

4. "By accepting credit for Bush's withdrawal plan" It's not Bush's withdrawal plan

Frankly, on the issue of Iraq, Bush deserves nothing but scorn. This is all President Obama.

[Jokerman]

9. Wrong.

U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement:

"On December 14, 2008, U.S. President George W. Bush signed the security pact with Iraq."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

[JuniperLea]

10. Are you saying that Obama took a Bush lie and made it happen?

Good on him, if that's the case. I'm still not convinced... and Wiki has led me down the garden path more than once.

[ProSense]

12. Not wrong,

Bush resisted withdrawal with every fiber in his body. He was forced to make the agreement.

Bush signed the agreement to try to salvage his legacy

On December 14, 2008, U.S. President George W. Bush signed the security pact with Iraq. In his fourth and final trip to Iraq, the president appeared with Iraq's prime minister and said more work is to be done.<61> During the press conference discussing the signing of the pact<62> with Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in his palace in the heavily fortified Green Zone, President Bush dodged two shoes thrown at him from the audience. The man who threw his shoes, Muntadhar al-Zaidi, an Iraqi journalist with Egypt-based al-Baghdadia television network, could be heard yelling in Arabic: "This is a farewell ... you dog!" When throwing his second shoe, al-Zaidi could be heard yelling: "This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq!”<63> While pinned on the ground by security personnel, he screamed: "You killed the Iraqis!"<64> As the man’s screaming could be heard outside, Bush said “That’s what people do in a free society, draw attention to themselves."

And you can best believe if Bush or McCain had their way, the U.S. would be in Iraq for 10 more years.

A referendum on the pact between the United States and Iraq will be held in Iraq before 30 July 2009.<69> If the referendum result is against the SOFA, the Iraqi government will give notice to end the agreement and US troops will be required to leave Iraq within one year - by July 2010.<70> "If the Iraqi people reject the pact in the referendum ... the government of Iraq will be committed, according to the law, to the result of the referendum and will convey this will to the American administration. The pact will be annulled", Iraq's Sunni Vice-President Tareq al-Hashemi said. The deal can be terminated if either signatory gives the other side a year's notice.<71>

White House spokesman Dana Perino said in December 2008 that "if there is a national referendum, Iraq is a sovereign country, and they could decide to do lots of different things with it." "But I think that the fact that their representative leadership has signed this agreement today, that they recognize that they are going to continue to need our help for the next little while", she continued.<72>

"We do understand that the Iraqi military is not going to get built out in the three years. We do need many more years. It might be 10 years," Iraqi government spokesman Ali al Dabbagh said in December 2008. "We expected something odd," said Alaa Maki, a member of a Sunni Muslim political bloc that's forced Maliki to put the security agreement before voters as a referendum next year. "That is the reason we pushed for the referendum", he said. Mahmoud Othman, a Kurdish member of parliament who also voted for the pact, said "for us to think about extending the U.S. presence by planning another (security agreement) is premature."<73> "What was announced about the Iraqi forces needing 10 years in order to be ready is only his personal point of view and it doesn't represent the opinion of the Iraqi government," Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's office said in a written statement. "I think that al-Dabbagh's comments are the first sign that nobody is going to adhere to the timetables and the U.S. soldiers are staying in Iraq beyond the 2011 date," said Sadrist MP Nasir al-Saadi.<74>

Thousands of Iraqi have gathered weekly after Friday prayers and shouted anti-US and anti-Israeli slogans protesting the security pact between Baghdad and Washington. A protester said that despite the approval of the Interim Security pact, the Iraqi people would break it in a referendum next year.<75>

[Jokerman]

15. Purely speculation on your part.

The excerpts you quote do nothing to back up your assertions.

You can guess all you want about what "Bush really wanted" or what "McCain would have done". Unless you can refute the FACT that Bush signed the agreement I won't waste any more of my time on your claims.

[ProSense]

16. Not speculation.

2006: Bush on Iraq: ‘We’re Not Leaving So Long As I’m The President’

2007: Bush vetoes war-funding bill with withdrawal timetable

Political expediency last year in office:

In reversal, Bush to accept Iraq withdrawal timetable

(AFP) – Aug 22, 2008

CRAWFORD, Texas (AFP) — From "surrender date" to "aspirational time horizon," US President George W. Bush seemed poised Friday to seal a reversal in Iraq policy by accepting a target withdrawal date.

But the White House poured cold water on Iraqi claims that Washington and Baghdad had reached a deal that would see all US combat troops out of Iraqi cities by next June and US forces gone from the war-torn country by late 2011.

<...>

The White House, which had in the past rejected firm withdrawal timetables as setting a "surrender date," now says that conditions on the ground allow for "aspirational time horizons" for bringing US troops home.

As recently as May 2007, Bush had defiantly declared: "It makes no sense to tell the enemy when you plan to start withdrawing. All the terrorists would have to do is mark their calendars and gather their strength."

more

[Jokerman]

19. Completely off point.

I've never said that when BUSH SIGNED THE AGREEMENT that it was sincere, or that it wasn't a flip-flop, or that it wasn't a just a political ploy to put Obama in a no-win situation. You can speculate all you want about the many possible motives but that still doesn't change the FACT that Bush signed the agreement.

Cheers.

[ProSense]

20. "I've never said that when BUSH SIGNED THE AGREEMENT that it was sincere"

If it wasn't sincere, what's your point: "the FACT that Bush signed the agreement."


The fact is that President Obama withdrew the troops.

[Jokerman]

44. You've got nothing to backup your statement.

"it's not Bush's withdrawal plan".

That's what you said and I've proven you wrong.

I asked a valid question about taking credit AND accepting blame. I've made no assertions as to Bush's motives or true intentions (which none of us can know for sure) but that's all you want to talk about.

If you think that "last post wins" no matter how irrelevant it may be then go ahead and play that game.

I'm done with your bullshit.

[zipplewrath]

21. That's where he gets trapped

Yes, Bush negotiated this, but no way McCain executes it. So Obama gets to run around saying that he DID execute Bush's plan, and McCain wouldn't have executed Bush's plan. Either way it's Bush's plan. He should have "personalized" it and made substantive changes so he could claim the results for himself. Unfortunately, he kept Gates and Gates was committed to the plan.

[ProSense]

22. Yeah, he's trapped

Everyone who isn't a political hack is sitting around thinking: Finally, Bush withdraws from Iraq.

[zipplewrath]

24. Ha!

No, I know what ya mean. It's really more of a case of the body politic than any dinner table conversation. It will become a media mantra, I've heard it already, which then feeds into the public conciousness.

[ProSense]

29. Screw today's BS media

Even they can't rewrite history.

[JoePhilly]

28. Why do you think Bush signed that???

You aren't dumb enough to think that Bush wanted to leave, are you?

Obama had been saying that once elected, he'd get us out in 16 months.

So Bush, as he leaves the building, signs an agreement to do exactly what Obama said he would do. Bush knows what Obama plans to do, so he does the political move to undercut Obama.

Why?? So that when Obama actually gets it done, the GOP will claim it was Bush's plan. Bush was re-writing history on his way out the door.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

45. Not to mention....

That a certain percentage of dimwits will assume that Obama is just "following the Bush Plan" for withdrawal.

:eyes:

[Jokerman]

46. Not to mention...

That a certain percentage of DU will resort to personal attacks when an honest question makes them uncomfortable.

Too bad.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

47. It's not an honest question, and you know it...

You're here to stir up shit and cause division.

[Jokerman]

48. You don't have a clue about my motivations.

Your insults and hollow accusations are far more divisive than anything I've posted on this board in the last nine years.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

49. Sure thing, ace...

At least we're all certain that you're the victim here of my hurtful and divisive posts.

Thank God you made that clear.

[Bitwit1234]

5. Since MSNBC as far as I can see,

is the only Cable News reporting it, WHO WILL KNOW...

[DevonRex]

6. ...

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

7. I think that if the war ends during his Presidency, he should get credit

I will be waiting for it to happen, and will be very glad when it's ended.

[jonnyblitz]

13. it ended yesterday, silly, time for a VICTORY PARADE!11

WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!1

[Hekate]

14. When Obama jets onto a troop ship, holds them up for a day, & struts around with a codpiece....

Let me know when that happens, willya?

Hekate

[LostinVA]

18. I guess you missed the media and message board wargasm

[Hekate]

36. I was busy watching Rachel report from the Green Zone and Keith give an accurate review of how we...

... got there in the first place. Both were performing journalism pretty well, I thought, and no wargasms in sight.

So yeah, I guess I missed all that.

Hekate

[LostinVA]

17. OOPS! I forgot

Sorry, Jonny.

Seriously, if this was any other President dong and saying this...

My BIL, a disabled vet, injured in service for his country after 12 years in the military and who was in three "hot spots," says this is BS. He was military intel and still does the same thing as a civilian as he did in the Army. I believe him, not the Brass, not the Admin, not the Media.

You're an old salt, you know the score.

[JVS]

37. I'm going to have to wait and see before deciding if this war is over.

[monmouth]

8. FReepers last night were thanking gawd for Bush and Rummy...LOL...n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Pathetic

Get a hold of yourself.

[BklnDem75]

25. I thought it was Obama's war now

That means he gets the credit.

[Political Tiger]

26. BS! Even Rachel Maddow pointed out last night how this was Obama's plan

not to mention it's what he campaigned on during the election. How soon people willfully forget....or maybe they're just stupid.

[Political Tiger]

27. Barack Obama Campaign Promise No. 126: Begin removing combat brigades from Iraq

Obama sets date for withdrawal of troops from Iraq
Updated: Friday, February 27th, 2009 | By Robert Farley

"Today, I have come to speak to you about how the war in Iraq will end," President Obama said in a formal announcement of a new Iraq strategy at Camp Lejeune, a Marine Corps base in North Carolina, on Feb. 27.

Under the new plan, Obama said, the United States will remove all combat troops by Aug. 31, 2010.

The plan came about, Obama said, after a comprehensive review of the U.S. strategy in Iraq by a national security team that included the defense secretary, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and commanders on the ground in Iraq. The plan to "transition to full Iraqi responsibility" begins, he said, with the "responsible removal of our combat brigades from Iraq."

"As a candidate for president, I made clear my support for a timeline of 16 months to carry out this drawdown, while pledging to consult closely with our military commanders upon taking office to ensure that we preserve the gains we’ve made and protect our troops," Obama said. "Those consultations are now complete, and I have chosen a timeline that will remove our combat brigades over the next 18 months.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/126/begin-removing-combat-brigades-from-iraq/

[becxx]

30. Politics and hype

Personally, I thought this was a lot of hype. We pulled out a handful of troops and 50,000 still remain. I think the war machine is spinning the situation a lot.

[rasputin1952]

31. The maniacal R's believe that Reagan destroyed the USSR...

quite the stretch there, he just happened to be warming a seat in the Oval Office when the Soviet Union went to pot. Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon and the other presidents set the stage for the demise by outspending them and sending the USSR into chaos by having little to no funds.

[Art_from_Ark]

38. Actually, Reagan hadn't been warming a seat in the Oval Office for 2 years

when the Soviet Union "went to pot", in 1991.

[rasputin1952]

39. You are corrrect...my bad...

regardless, they pushed it all on Reagan as if here a saint sent from God ...;)

[Art_from_Ark]

40. You are correct about that

Even though the Soviet Union officially fell apart more than 2 years after the Great Prevaricator left office, somehow they give him full credit for singlehandedly accomplishing that feat.

Interestingly, I had studied under two different professors at two different universities whose field of expertise was the USSR, and both of them had predicted in the early '80s that the USSR would collapse due to "irreparable domestic problems"

[Life Long Dem]

32. Bush had a plan for Iraq?

Tell us another joke!

[4lbs]

33. If Bush could run for a third term and win, or if McCain won, the RIIC (Repuke Idiot In Charge)

would find some way to back out of the August 2010 withdrawal.

So, yes, Obama withdrew the troops, like he promised during the campaign.

A Repuke would find any way to keep all 140,000 troops there.

[seattleblue]

34. He gets credit when he pulls out all the troops including the "support" troops.

And when he ends support for the private armies running around the country. He needs to say we did all we can do and now is the time to go home.

[NorthCarolina]

35. Shouldn't we wait until the remaining 50,000 tropps are pulled out before bestowing credit? nt

[MikeW]

41. Yep ... same goes for Afg if it returns to a hell hole after we pull out

[Arkana]

42. Yeah, cause Dubya and his cronies were so committed to drawing down in Iraq.

If you don't think the Bushies would have found excuse after excuse to delay leaving, then I'd ask you what you're doing here.

[AtomicKitten]

43. facepalm

[phleshdef]

50. History will report that President Barack Obama oversaw the end of the war in Iraq.

And there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

[jenmito]

51. It WASN'T Bush's plan to withdraw all combat troops by 8/31/10. It was OBAMA'S. Bush's

withdrawal plan was to withdraw all troops by 12/31/11.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

52. The Republicans can pay for any more wars out of their own pockets