Quit acting like TONIGHT was when you realized Bush/Cheney wouldn't be prosecuted

[scheming daemons]

Such drama-queen hyberbolic bullshit.


As if Obama's speech outlining the end of the Iraq combat operations was the first time you realized that Bush/Cheney and company wouldn't be prosecuted.


That die was cast in January of 2006... when Nancy Pelosi was sworn in as Speaker of the House.


Anyone acting like TONIGHT was their epiphany that Bush and Cheney would not go on trial is engaging in disingenuous bullshit with the sole intent to criticize Obama.


There was nothing said by Obama during the campaign, or at any time in his Presidency, to give you the false hope that Bush and Cheney would be prosecuted. To act like, somehow, you were betrayed TONIGHT... or that "where is the man I voted for?" .... exposes you as a bullshit artist... or as someone disconnected from reality.


Please tell me ONE instance where Obama gave you the impression that he was ever going to prosecute the Bush administration either before or after the campaign. You can't.


Quit acting like you were "duped". This isn't kindergarten. On this issue, you got EXACTLY the President you voted for.


Disagreeing with Obama's decision to not prosecute Bush/Cheney is a correct and valid position to have.

.... Acting like you discovered TONIGHT that Obama wasn't going to prosecute Bush/Cheney makes you a troll or an idiot. You knew this on January 20, 2009.... November 4, 2008... and as far back as February of 2007 when Obama announced his candidacy.


Feigning indignation now makes you look stupid.

Bush and Cheney should be prosecuted. The fact that they were never going to be has been known to everyone for almost 4 years.

[mmonk]

1. Maybe some had hope.

Hope is all we have these days.

[flamingdem]

3. Who started that war?

Put on our thinking caps... hmmmmm

[Skittles]

6. WHO STARTED IT WITH LIES?

AND WHO WON'T BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR IT - put THAT think cap on, PLEASE

[Chulanowa]

13. John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Oh wait, wrong war, different standards?

[scheming daemons]

20. +100... good point

[avaistheone1]

107. You have no idea what you are talking about

JFK, wtf!

[Chulanowa]

143. Yes, JFK

There are books. Go read them.

[mmonk]

26. The same people that broke our laws and is why they should be held

accountable. No forgiveness for either party from me.

[golfguru]

61. Who escalated that war.....hmmmmm

[flamingdem]

2. Rec to that, he never said he'd prosecute for war crimes

.. he did NOT let Bush / Cheney off the hook in this speech.
He took care of some of the wounds as best any leader could.

[Wilms]

25. Biden did, however.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/21/biden-on-prosecution-of-b_n_152662.html

[DrSteveB]

89. If my relatives died as a result of a lying president, I'd want him locked up

At one point.

[Hekate]

118. Once the Repubs regain Congress, you'll have all the subpoenas and investigations anyone could want

However, as with Clinton, they'll be aimed at stopping every Dem program in its tracks and ultimately impeaching a Dem president on trumped-up charges. Several of their leaders have already made this promise.

No sarcasm intended whatsoever. I look forward to spitting on Bush's grave, not to mention Cheney's, but given their wealth they'll both probably outlive us all.

We have a flawed system. Very flawed. I think Obama's doing the best he can with what he's got, and as someone who is getting older by the minute I think I'll go with the best person we can get -- who at the moment is Obama. His time in office is short (comparisons to FDR never seem to mention that FDR was elected to 4 terms in office, and Obama will get at best two) -- I think every day he gets up and prioritizes like mad regarding long-term and short-term and immediate needs.

By the way, welcome to DU.

Hekate

[Skittles]

4. what the FUCK does that matter?

it's a bad a realization now as it EVER was

[phleshdef]

7. It doesn't matter. Phony outrage never does.

[Skittles]

9. W T F

you folk are clearly entering the abyss now - that is just a SICKENING SENTIMENT for outrage over PHONY REASONS TO INVADE A COUNTRY

[Name removed]

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[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Does it help that I was outraged about it a year and a half ago?

I actually thought there was a chance it could happen - but when Obama did nothing to change the abuses of the justice department it was obvious that there would be no justice from him, not even a weak-assed 'truth commission'.

You think that covering for war crimes is something to NOT be outraged about?

[Skittles]

31. I don't think it matters to people who think this is "phony outrage"

they just do NOT FUCKING GET IT and will do anything to excuse this bullshit

[scheming daemons]

39. Nothing happened tonight to change anything one way or the other

[phleshdef]

67. 2 wars, a horrible recession and 8 years of middle class neglect.

In 2007, I wanted investigations. But that this point, it wouldn't just be politically stupid to focus the energies of the country on that, it would be irresponsible, wreckless and would take attention away from everything else that needed and still needs all the attention it can get, lest the whole damn country fall into the third world. Prosecuting Bush/Cheney is not fucking worth that.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[pnorman]

5. I feel BETRAYED!!!!

And for punitive damages, I want TEN PONIES!!!

[Skittles]

8. oh gawd

yes, it's funny, fucking hilarious

[scheming daemons]

11. Yes... it is hilarious that it took you 4 years to build up outrage over a 4-year-old decision

[Name removed]

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[scheming daemons]

16. nah... I give skittles the benefit of the doubt on that... he/she's just

..looking for new excuses to feign outrage.

[Chulanowa]

29. Oh, I'm not calling anyone a racist

Bias is a different thing from out-and-out racism. For a lot of Americans, it's just easier to blame the black guy. Every now and then you'll get a story about an assault or burglary where it's claimed a "big black guy" did it, when in fact evidence points toward the whole thing being a crime or screwup by the people standing as witnesses or victims. They're not racist, they're just using an easy cover story.

There's definitely a different standard at work for Obama, a standard no one else seems to get held to. I can't be certain it's racial; but if it's not, then I'm at a loss as to what it could be. Somehow Pelosi and Reid only got some grumbling and eye-rolling when they did their "politics as usual" stuff, but when Obama does it? I'M ABSOLUTELY BETRAYED AND OUTRAGED HOW DARE HE HE'S NO BETTER THAN BUSH!!!

[Skittles]

37. so

you think we gave Pelosi a pass when she declared impeachment off the table? Is that what you REALLY BELIEVE?????

[Chulanowa]

46. No

I know you did. Or at least you didn't give this kind of screaming rage.

I was here. Sorry. There was irritation, but it was mostly resignation.

Of course, nobody thought Pelosi was going to be the Bagger Vance of US politics, did they?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[scheming daemons]

41. Ok... so what happened tonight to cause you to be "outraged anew"?

[Skittles]

44. he specifically addresses the Iraq War

with a nodding kudos to the patriotism of the bastard who lied to get us into it - IT STINKS

[Chulanowa]

50. I'm curious about what you expected

Frothing rage? Threats of armed arrest? Promises of waterboarding until confessions are forthcoming? Maybe send a predator drone down to Crafword?

Given what I've seen of you, Skittles, he could have Bush in a headlock and be slugging the hell out the fucker, and you'd just find something else to bark up your own ass about. His tie, perhaps.

[Skittles]

64. I don't expect SHIT anymore

actually, in retrospect I guess I SHOULD

[Chulanowa]

72. Then what the FUCK are YOU talking about?

I REALLY don't know why you HAVE to capitalize STUFF like you're doing, BUT right now you just STRIKE me as someone who WANTS to be angry, who wants to be OUTRAGED, and will conjure up any REASON to DO SO.

[Number23]

74. .

:rofl:

Oh, and :thumbsup: for acknowledging the weird and superfluous capitalization. :)

[Tyrone Slothrop]

101. "Weird and superfluous capitalization"

You mean the weird and superfluous capitalization in the OP, right?

[Chulanowa]

113. Some people do need to learn to use tags

bolding, underlining, and italicizing. Capitalization's underutilized stressing cousins.

[scheming daemons]

80. Until Nance Greggs come back... you're my new favorite poster n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

124. +1

:applause:

[HughMoran]

141. +2

[JTFrog]

90. +1 !!

[dionysus]

111. you finally figured her out.

[scheming daemons]

55. What you call "nodding kudos to patriotism" I call....

The equivalent of when McConnell said "I take him at his word".


When Obama said "nobody questions his patriotism" it was a dog whistle to everyone that voted against McCain... because ALL of them question his patriotism.


It reinforced everyone's negative opinion of Bush, without sounding like he was criticizing him.



Think two steps ahead.

[Skittles]

66. O.M.G.

you CANNOT be serious - no way

[phleshdef]

71. It was a neutral gesture that wasn't loaded one way or the other.

Nevermind all the parts of the speech where he describes all the failures of the last administration that got us to where we are.

[Skittles]

86. he said his patriotism could not be questioned

yes it CAN and it SHOULD be questioned - that lying bastard thoroughly FUCKED America

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

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[RaleighNCDUer]

96. Bye bye.

Anybody who says "you progressives" automatically goes on my ignore list.

Nice talking to you.

[phleshdef]

100. It ain't like Obama hasn't ripped Bush and his administration a million times.

You are overanalyzing a bit of political politeness that really doesn't mean much of anything.

[Name removed]

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[Skittles]

68. I............it's unbelievable

bizarro world

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[Skittles]

34. WTF

what kind of bullshit are you spewing? I have ALWAYS been disgusted by the lack of accountability - you have no fucking CLUE what you are talking about

[DrSteveB]

88. I will always be outraged about the Iraq War, for example

And I will not stop talking about it.

[martymar64]

129. Glad that you find protecting war criminals amusing

I knew Obama would never go after war criminals. He is too risk-verse to do anything that bold.

Face it, Obama is a wimp. He is too afraid of the rethugs to do anything that is right, only right-wing.

[pnorman]

136. Don't tell me, let me guess!

You didn't get any pony either (Naw, spare me the fulsome praise; I'm a modest man. Let's just call it a "lucky guess"!)

[phleshdef]

10. If it was gonna be done, it should have been done in 2007.

I never expected nor really wanted a new administration to spend all its time and political capital litigating the last one. We have too many other problems that require Washington's attention span. We don't have time for revenge political blood sport. I would have loved to have seen Pelosi's congress in 2007 go after them. But it didn't. We should have accepted reality then.

[flamingdem]

28. How long would any leader survive going after the hydra heads of that war

and others like it... it's harsh but there it is. It's not clear any president can control the evil that has developed in the system thanks to the repukes and their buddies.

[scheming daemons]

38. Not very long at all... and the critics chirping tonight all know that

[Radical Activist]

43. It was Congress' job and it still is.

That's how our government was set up. The whole checks and balances things. It's a shame they wont.

[TheKentuckian]

60. The Department of Justice, CIA, FBI, and the military are under the Executive Branch

Impeachment is not required for criminal prosecution nor does a conviction in the Senate result in criminal charges.

Talk of checks and balances are a red herring here to deflect from responsibility in the executive branch.
You are getting your civics jacked up or are trying to deceive others who's are.

Checks and balances?!? What bullshit to conflate two very different and distinct prosecutions.
Impeachment is not a criminal preceding.

[Radical Activist]

73. If you're talking about prosecuting a President or former President for actions taken in office

then Congress should lead the way. It's not like we're talking about prosecuting someone for a regular old crime like jaywalking or robbing pancakes.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

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[Radical Activist]

79. It's one of the fundamental concepts our national government is founded upon.

Besides, there's already an ongoing justice department investigation of torture under Bush.

BTW, does this get you excited? It doesn't do anything for me, but just asking.

[TheKentuckian]

81. Show me the constitutional requirement for Congress to prosecute a former President

and the unicorn is hawt! Ooohhhh

Is that more Bog anti-gay stuff or are you curious if you and I have the same tastes? Its hard to tell if you all are fiercely advocating, bashing the gays, or just like have odd tastes.

[Radical Activist]

82. Show me any legal requirement anywhere that a former President be

prosecuted. I think Congress is the best place to deal with abuses of executive power.

I don't know what your gender or sexual preference is, so I don't know why the picture would imply anything about gay men at all. You could be a woman who's very drawn to pancakes and unicorns. :shrug: I'm convinced there's some kind of Freudian explanation for your random pancake comment earlier.

[TheKentuckian]

85. A former President has no special carve out from normal channels of prosecution

You may feel it is best handled by Congress but your preferences don't dictate that the Justice Department may not prosecute.

Congress has subpoena power and can bring articles of impeachment but that does not exclude the authority of the courts or of the executive to file charges.

You are inventing law.

As far as the pancakes, it is a good a step as the fake ass law that has no real life application and is no better or worse than going for a swim, watching a Matlock rerun, playing tic tac toe, or jamming some music as far as restoring some level of sanity to executive incentives.

ALL WORTHLESS.

Sticking with pancakes is just a lame way to avoid dealing with forwarding a false premise on the effectiveness and intent of weak and possibly counter productive policy.

[jobycom]

14. I'd say anyone who acts like January 06 was the first time they realized it wasn't paying attention

First, no one claimed Pelosi or Reid would impeach or prosecute him, and both claimed they wouldn't. Second, anyone who didn't realize when Ford pardoned Nixon (or when they read about it in the history books) that we would never prosecute a president, especially a Republican, in this nation, missed the memo.

[scheming daemons]

17. Good point..... but even the most hopeful had to know by Jan 06...

[Hekate]

121. True. But no one here seems to remember the Ford Nixon pardon, only that Nixon was better than Obama

The last part of that sentence made me nauseous -- but it happens to be a bizarre DU meme, or was for awhile. It'll be back, once this dies down.

Hekate

[katandmoon]

18. Whoa, the scent of desperation permeates this post. Just because Pelosi took impeachment off the

table doesn't give Obama's DOJ a pass. But the fact that the Obama administration's stamp of approval on the Bush administration's crimes is clearly because it is taking its cue from Bush and following in many of the Bush administration's criminal footsteps makes Obama's complicity in Bush's crimes even more reprehensible, IMO.

The approach you are taking to shift attention and blame away from the Obama administration's complicity in the Bush administration's crimes to any poor dumb voters/posters who may not have totally taken Obama at his word (like that was the ONE THING he wouldn't backpedal on) when he said he wasn't going to prosecute BushCo, is truly one of the most cynical, pathetic, and desperate things I've ever read on DU.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[katandmoon]

21. Seriously, you are losing it.

[scheming daemons]

22. I'm not the one using the occassion of Obama's speech to complain about a 4-yr-old decision

[TheKentuckian]

45. Dishonest, Bush was in charge of the Department of Justice at that time

Certainly no one expected him to investigate and prosecute himself.

Pelosi refraining from Impeachment has no bearing whatsoever on criminal culpability.

No one is supposed to be above the law including the President. Justice is betrayed as have future generations.

We are citizens of this country and have every right to demand accountability for crimes against our nation and perpetrated in our name. If you don't like the volume, frequency, or timing then too bad.

[scheming daemons]

62. From the time Obama announced his candidacy in February of 2007...

...he gave every indication that he was NOT going to prosecute them.


And he made it even clearer later in the campaign and after he won.


if tonight caused you to think you were "betrayed", then you haven't been paying attention.

[TheKentuckian]

77. Seems to me he took an oath of office that requires upholding the Constitution

[Go2Peace]

84. Cool your jets, you are attacking people for expressing their democratic rights

Disagree if you want. But as long as we still have a semblance of democracy none of us should be attacking people who feel strongly about going to war and killing people over lies.
The president can take the heat, you don't have to go overboard insulting everyone and trying to intimidate the thread.

[Name removed]

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[hulka38]

132. It's not just Pelosi or Obama. It's the established m.o. of the party leadership

If it was Steny and Hillary, or Speaker X (D) and President Y (D), it would have been the same exact outcome. Come on guys! You're stuck on personalities. Take two steps back and see the big picture.

[Skittles]

53. that would be "lost"

they've clearly gone off the deep end - I can't BELIEVE progressives can dismiss concern over lies that got us into WARS that are STILL IN PROGRESS

[glitch]

128. Progressives? No. Centrists, absolutely. nt

[EFerrari]

23. Did you not listen to the president's speech?

His refrain was "it's time to turn the page". People are responding to that.

So, you should take up the time lag with Obama, not with people who bother to listen to his speeches.

[scheming daemons]

30. He used that exact phrase in 2008.

[EFerrari]

116. Someone should tell his speech writers so he doesn't keep bringing it up again.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[IndianaGreen]

32. Mister Torture is Okay Memo John Yoo is walking free

He got a pass from Obama's Justice Department.

[depakid]

49. As are the felons involved with the US Attorney scandal(s)

[jgraz]

51. That asshole is walking around free IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.

I have to drive past that fucker's house just about every day.

[scheming daemons]

33. What... in anything I typed... could be construed as a "homophobic insult"?

Where in the hell did that come from?

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

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[RandomThoughts]

42. On a side note.

See how easy someone can push a button to get someone off a topic.

And it is done for many buttons, for a gay person angry about issues around marriage, or a strait person that feels gay marriage is terrible. They both have buttons to launch stuff stored in the macros.

The point is see how easy it is to break focus, and get on another topic.



It sounds weird, but you almost have to segment your mind where you can keep focus on multiple things, so nothing pulls you off of primary focus, even when commenting or thinking on other things, the primary focus will always pull you back on target. So even when out drinking or playing pool, discussing something, a part of your thought and mind is always on your focal point, it really helps to avoid distractions.

So although I understand it bothers you, when it bothers you, do you forget about all the other issues? I know when I let an issue pull me off of other issues, then it hampers thoughts on what is better.

Although that could be your primary issue.

The Republicans are experts at pulling people off of issues, stay focused on what is important to you. Don't let them pull you into distraction debate, even when you debate it. Always work your way back to primary topics.

[Umbral]

35. It's not like a new realization, but no one likes being reminded that they fucked up. nt

[KingFlorez]

40. Pelosi was sworn in January 2007

That aside, I agree with everything in the post.

[Amonester]

47. why don't you make it short with a simple 'get over it'

and while you're at it, end it with 'morans'

pfff

[scheming daemons]

56. why don't you take a course in reading comprehension.... n/t

[Amonester]

57. touché

buh-bye

[depakid]

48. It certainly has been long litany of no accountability or prosecutions...

War criminals, torturers, corrupt and lawbreaking public officials, banksters, fraudsters, food poisoners, mining company execs... an on and on.

Congress isn't immune from this criticism, either of course- but then, it's not their full time job as it is with the DOJ and some of the other regulatory and enforcement bodies.

[scheming daemons]

59. My point is directed at those that are using tonight's speech as a reason to

..be outraged anew.


Anybody whose hopes were "dashed" by that speech has been living under a rock for the past 4 years.

[jgraz]

65. Your point is a transparent attempt to fling your shit and distract people.

And please stop with your bullshit straw men. No one's hopes were "dashed". We've had enough time with this president to know what he's about and what he believes in. We just don't like having him rub it in our faces on national television.

[depakid]

70. Well, it would have helped if Bush hadn't been referred to as a patriot at least

Interestingly enough, the Aussie take on the speech is completely different than what I've seen at DU.

Restoring US economy my central mission: Obama

US President Barack Obama has told Americans that restoring the US economy “must be our central mission as a people and my central responsibility as President”.

In a prime-time televised address from the Oval Office to mark the end of America's combat mission in Iraq, Mr Obama used the completion of the withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq to make clear that he had not lost sight of his biggest domestic policy challenge – to “put the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs back to work”.

Mr Obama has been under intensifying political pressure due to the teetering economy.

More: http://www.smh.com.au/world/restoring-us-economy-my-central-mission-obama-20100901-14lqj.html

Could be that's due to the stark contrast between our two countries' economies:

'Miracle economy' defies the doomsayers

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus – he's migrated from the North Pole to enjoy the good life in Australia, working in construction, investing in the mining industry, buying enough stuff to be running down inventories, growing fatter on the biggest rise in national income since 1973 and all this before capital investment really hits its stride this financial year.

Australia's “miracle economy” surprised on the upside again with the June quarter national accounts, beating economists' forecasts with seasonally adjusted gross domestic product growth of 1.2 per cent on the back of surging terms of trade, household spending and the construction industry. And the amazing thing is that the mining industry has a relatively quiet quarter, so there's much more to come.

..We're sitting with unemployment in the low 5s, a year of 3.3 per cent growth under our collective belts and the very reasonable expectation of further major contributions from the resources sector yet to come

...The big four now are in a position of wanting to lend more to business, needing to lend more to business, but various members of the panel said the problem is that non-property business isn't wanting to borrow. The biggest and best corporates can raise money more cheaply than the banks themselves, others have raised plenty of equity

More: http://www.smh.com.au/business/miracle-economy-defies-the-doomsayers-20100901-14msq.html

[hulka38]

137. That rage carried Obama to the party nomination two years ago.

It was okay then, right? But not now? The rage against the Iraq War, the Democratic Party's enabling of it and the war's ongoing consequences shouldn't have an arbitrary, politically motivated expiration date. Outrage is proportional to the severity of the injustice. This was a cataclysm.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[slay]

75. It's not that TONIGHT is when we realized, it was just another slap in the face

um.. the ILLEGAL war of AGGRESSION in Iraq is kind of over even though we are leaving thousands of troops behind.... er... not to mention the paid mercenaries .. um... AND why were we there in the first place? oh well who cares - at least we're kind of sort of leaving now. but don't even THINK about trying to hold ANYONE accountable - especially if they are republican. besides we have the GOOD war to move on to now - that's right, many more lives and much more money are to be lost in Afghanistan so just forget about Iraq it's over (kind of) OK?

he might as well have said that tonight. the war was BULLSHIT to begin with and what do we get - a 15 minute speech on honoring the troops and turning over bases BUILT WITH OUR TAX MONEY.

I don't think anyone is surprised TONIGHT that nobody is going to be held accountable for this shit, but it is a reminder of how much Obama is participating in the cover-up. I mean Bill Clinton gets IMPEACHED over a blowjob but we won't even investigate why we went to war and who profited and HOW MUCH? I think everyone here has a right to be pissed at Obama, and pissed as that lame ass speech. That was one HORRIBLE speech wow.

[chill_wind]

76. Tonight was not a new discovery for anyone.

Just a fresh reminder.

[grantcart]

83. If you truly believe good things can happen!!

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

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[LostinVA]

95. And who are the "kindergartners" on DU you are referring to?

[lamp_shade]

97. You'll find your answer in the OP.

[LostinVA]

103. I asked you, not the OP

[The Backlash Cometh]

92. The Republicans would have pinned a Democrat to a board

and dissected them inch by inch.

Makes me wonder if the Democratic party is a legitimate party, or maybe it's just the straight guy in a comedy routine?

Of course, I'm not laughing.

[Hekate]

122. The Republicans don't have anything better to do with their time, and want government to fail

So anything toward that end will work for them. Several of their erstwhile leaders have already promised to do unto Obama what was done unto Clinton as soon as they get back in control of Congress. And that's all that will get done in Washington if they get their wish. Except maybe another war.

Hekate

[NJmaverick]

93. Maybe it's just me but I want to see the nation get people back to work

that's more important than stopping everything just to go after war crimes.

[hulka38]

139. A mind numbingly ignorant statement wrapped around a straw man.

Have a bite - it's really tasty.

[Fire1]

99. Well, you know folks have to find 'something' to be pissed

about! But you're absolutely right! The human brain is amazing. They have convinced themselves they've been duped when in actuality, they duped themselves.

[Catherina]

102. "Such drama-queen hyberbolic bullshit" refers to your pathetic OP n/t

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

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[thereismore]

106. Yes, but the wound is still fresh. nt

[avaistheone1]

108. It certainly was a revelation that Bush was such a prince in Obama's eyes.

[BlueMTexpat]

109. I still cling to the feeble hope that the US will ultimately

have no choice but to conduct our own "investigations" simply because the revelations that emerge from other enquiries and/or prosecutions are so damning.
The current trickle may one day become a flood. The mills do grind very slowly sometimes, but they do grind.

[OwnedByFerrets]

110. One instance...maybe the fact that his strength is in the Constitution...

or so we thought. Maybe his strenght is in giving pretty speeches. Did I have any illusions? NO. But it sure was a hella letdown.

[dionysus]

112. do you really believe the public would be behind prison\execution for the previous administration?

[avaistheone1]

114. Yes

If there was a proper investigation and hearings on the matter, no doubt the public would be strongly behind the prosecution of the Bush/Cheney war criminals.

[Hekate]

123. I think we'd have a civil war on our hands, given Limbaugh, Beck, and other violence purveyors

[dionysus]

127. +1000

[avaistheone1]

144. We already have a civil war on hands - judging from the tea party wackos

So why not take control and do the right thing and throughly investigate the Bush/Cheney bastards?

Limbaugh and Beck only have so much power and I thing they have peaked. The Beck rally spoke volumes in how few people are really committed to his message.

[OwnedByFerrets]

126. So? The law is based on public opinion?

LAWS were broken. When I grew up, that meant something. Now, it only means something if you are poor.

[hulka38]

115. If it wasn't Pelosi it would have been whatever Democratic leader

was in her place. Who spoke out strongly against her? The problem with this party is not with the individual politician, it's institutional. It's time to smash the 3D chess board and throw it in the garbage. Stop the calculations and just do what you know is the right thing. Act like real, genuine human beings one time for Christ's sake. This issue is enormous. I'll stop being angry about it when the leadership acknowledges they fucked up on this as well and swear a blood oath that they're changing. If you PM me I'll tell you what you can do with your time frame.

[quiet.american]

117. Righteous! K&R nt

[NC_Nurse]

119. It still sucks. And having him give Bush a nod just brings it home again.

[JNelson6563]

120. You fantasy crusher!

Some people have their own Utopia, how dare you come in here and trample all over it??

Seriously, nice dose of reality SD. Thanks for posting.

Julie

[G_j]

131. justice is fantasy

:puke:

[felinetta]

125. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm in 100% agreement with you.

[G_j]

130. I'd tell who is fucking stupid

but it will just get deleted

[paulk]

133. what a stupid thread

:eyes:

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[POAS]

135. Pot meet kettle...n/t

[Forkboy]

138. "The fact that they were never going to be has been known to everyone for almost 4 years."

Yeah...no shit.

[Land Shark]

140. Some people are always going to be slower to come to a conclusion (& it's not always the same folks)

This quote applies to opinions as strongly as it does to principles and revolutions. Thomas Paine wrote:

"It is never to be expected in a revolution that every man is to change his opinion at the same moment. There never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once. Time and reason must cooperate with each other to the final establishment of any principle; and therefore those who may happen to be first convinced have not a right to persecute others, on whom conviction operates more slowly. The moral principle of revolutions is to instruct, not to destroy."
---Thomas Paine

[McCamy Taylor]

142. Noam Chomsky told you Bush would not be prosecuted---in 1973.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/19730920.htm

But the conditions that permitted the rise of McCarthy and Nixon endure. Fortunately for us and for the world, McCarthy was a mere thug and Nixon's mafia overstepped the bounds of acceptable trickery and deceit with such obtuseness and blundering vulgarity that they were called to account by powerful forces that had not been demolished or absorbed. But sooner or later, under the threat of political or economic crisis, some comparable figure may succeed in creating a mass political base, bringing together socioeconomic forces with the power and the finesse to carry out plans such as those that were conceived in the Oval Office. Only perhaps he will choose his domestic enemies more judiciously and prepare the ground more thoroughly.

And so it goes. This essay is well known. Folks like Obama and the Congressional Dems have all read it. They know that failure to prosecute means more of the same in the future. And yet, they do not prosecute. That can only mean that they want to allow more of the same in the future. With expanded executive powers comes the potential for earning vast sums of money for oneself and one's friends.

Remember that Axelrod was an Astroturfer before he was a political adviser. His business buddies are doing very well.