Is it too early in the evening to call for Kaine's head?

[JCMach1]

Just said the message is 'we have to work together'...

[Tansy_Gold]

1. Oh, yeah, and he can't see how far that's gotten us already?

Idiot.

*I* could do a better job.



TG, NTY

[trayfoot]

2. Kaine was not, IMO, a great Gov. for VA either!

Howard Dean needs to return to the scene!

[beac]

23. As a Virginian, I couldn't agree more. Kaine is terrible on so many levels.

:puke:

[The Hitman]

41. Agreed.

But now we have McDonnell, and Kaine looks like Caesar Augustus compared to him.

[frazzled]

3. You know, put the blame in the right place

The American electorate: capricious, uninformed, and hysterical. God himself couldn't convince knuckleheads like those who would vote for some of these jokers.

So no, it's not Obama; it's not Tim Kaine -- it's the American people. Look around you.

[defendandprotect]

13. Nonsense.... Americans are subjected to rw propagnda every day...

by our corporate-press --

It is Tim Kaine ... public is no different from what it was when Howard Dean

ran -- public hugely supported him -- and he was swiftboated not only by Repugs/

corporate-press, but by members of his own party who wanted more corporate influence

in Dem Party!!

And it certainly is Obama .... do you think we'd see votes like this if he had

aggressively pushed for MEDICARE FOR ALL instead of making back room deals with Big Pharma

and Health Care Industry?

[frazzled]

16. I disagree with you so profoundly ...

that it is not probably possible for us to have a real discussion.

[defendandprotect]

18. Are you saying right wing propaganda doesn't work... or that we have a free press....?

[frazzled]

26. Of course right-wing propaganda works ...

but it only works on people uninformed enough to let it. It takes two to tango.

People here can keep trying to find a boogie man to blame our losses on. Or to believe their personal heroes were responsible for wins in previous years. But it's really factors outside any individual's control--like the economy, stupid--that fix these things. (It was Hurricane Katrina and the Iraq war that gave us impetus before).

Howard Dean didn't give us our victories in 06 and 08 (you might as well say it was Rahm Emmanuel, since he ran the DCCC--and you should be blaming Van Hollen this year). I don't believe in the power of powerful men theory of history. This is America, and the people get to choose. They are choosing rather badly in many cases this year. But it's not the end of the world: sanity will prevail in the end. (Remember '94, when we lost both the Senate and the House?).

Some of you should be rejoicing: most of the Democratic losses (aside from Grayson, who lost himself) were in conservative districts, with conservative Democrats. You'll get the "purer" party now that you wanted. Only without the ability to control the agenda or the votes to pass anything at all.

So congratulations, America.

[defendandprotect]

33. And where does the responsibility lie for informing the public?

Is the public intentionally uninformed? Are they "letting" themselves be uninformed?

No one is looking for a "boogie man" -- is that the replacement for "you want a pony/

miracle"?

The "economy" is not something which is unset -- it is allegedly subject to rules and regulations

which you may have noticed were OVERTURNED and have NOT been reinstated by Obama ... including

Glass-Steagall! It is a fluctuating, chaotic market which the right wing/elites desire --

that's really the only way serious money can be stolen from the public.


Howard Dean did lead us to victory in '06 and '08 ... and brought Democrats back.

How many races hadn't been contested previously ... some for decades!

Rahm Emmanuel is dedicated to goals of the DLC -- moving the Democratic Party to the right.

This is now "America" and we are no longer sure that the "public gets to choose."

I'm sure you're aware of the 2000 steal -- 2004 steal -- and for all we know computers have

been helping steal elections back to when they first began coming in in the late 1960's.


But it's not the end of the world: sanity will prevail in the end. (Remember '94, when we lost both the Senate and the House?).

Yes -- wasn't that the GOP champion propagandist's Newt Gingrich's win with his "Contract

On America" -- and wasn't that loss followed by the IMPEACHMENT of Clinton?

Also sounds a little like "The Gulf will bounce back!" fantasy.


Some of you should be rejoicing: most of the Democratic losses (aside from Grayson, who lost himself) were in conservative districts, with conservative Democrats. You'll get the "purer" party now that you wanted. Only without the ability to control the agenda or the votes to pass anything at all.

Who is it that you think you're speaking here for?

Who is it that you think wanted Democratic losses anywhere?

What "purer" party are you alluding to?


(It was Hurricane Katrina and the Iraq war that gave us impetus before).

Couldn't at all following your reasoning on that one --

can you enlarge on your thinking there? Thanks!

[treestar]

27. They don't have to listen to it

They could get up off their lazy asses and try to really inform themselves.

[defendandprotect]

34. So according to you, they're not only "stupid" but they're also "lazy" ....!!

Americans have been taught for generations that they "shouldn't discuss politics

or religion in polite society." More and more families are, however, seemingly

beginning to do so -- or shall we say .... they're struggling with trying to do it.

A large part of the public being informed used to rest on the shoulders of the

president to ensure that they know what's going on -- FDR, Ike, JFK --

AND, with our national parties -- Democrats used to have neighborhood representatives

who covered issues and made sure the public knew what was going on -- and what their

stake was in elections and government. That was all dismantled.

Many Americans no longer even understand the workings of Social Security because their

programs for advising workers/public about it were also dismantled. Therefore making

it quite easy for Wall St. Journal and right wingers to lie to the public about

"Ponzi Schemes" and "entitlements."

More and more Americans, I think, are making the effort to try to talk with one another

but still a great deal of rw propaganda stands in the way of our understanding one

another and what is truly at stake.

I know a quite intelligent young man -- part of a family business -- with young wife and

two children now in elementary school. No reason why he shouldn't understand what is

going on with Global Warming -- yet the last time this subject was mentioned he had

been taken in by the rw propaganda about "internal" e-mails having put the lie to Global

Warming! What has the Democratic Party been telling us about Global Warming?

The unreality begins waaaay before we arrive at the citizen and their behavior!

[treestar]

38. Oh the poor things!

all they have to do is read a little. But that's too much. They can let themselves be victimized by emails they can't even question!

[defendandprotect]

42. Have you by any chance been in a book store lately ....

seen shelves filled with books by right wingers -- ???


The last actual lesson the public got from the TV screen was PBS' brave

move to put Phil Donahue on to actually tell the public what single-payer

health care was about -- that every other nation had it -- and why we didn't.

How it worked and why we should have it! That was one of the most effective

things in waking up the public to the need for MEDICARE FOR ALL.

MICHAEL MOORE capped that effort with his SICKO --

For those reasons -- and certainly NOT because of Obama leadership or Dem leadership --

the public supported single payer government run health care by 76%+ and rising at

the time of the vote!

In fact, Catholics supported it by 73% -- and when Latinos/Latinas are included by 83%!

When Americans have information and understand their stake in government they are

overwhelmingly liberal.

That's why the right wing elites work so constantly to make their "dumb" -- !!!

That's the very purpose of our corporate-press -- !!


And -- needless to say -- the purpose of elite/corporate control over both parties and

our elected officials -- !!



:)

[JVS]

35. "Would it not be easier In that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?"

As Brecht put it

Obama and Tim Kaine have let the party organization go to seed.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Yeah....why don't we continue to attack each other.....like we've been doing for 20 months!

while the Republicans continue to walk in lock step while stomping us in the head!

You'd figure if the Republicans are going to be back in power, at least some would focus
on them instead of our own....geeze!

[defendandprotect]

15. As if Repugs aren't "attacking one another" .... UNLESS we are truthful

about the past, we cannot formulate plans for a new beginning ---

[budkin]

5. This happened because the economy sucks and did not get better fast enough

That's it.

[MadMaddie]

6. Absolutely! Not following Dean's 50 State strategy

was a blunder. Why is it that the Democratic party has to compromise but the Republicans don't? I am sick of this weak kneed response to the Republicans.

[defendandprotect]

17. It's corporate influence over the Dem Party ... which nation has only been discussing

for the last four decades!!! The Buying of Government?

And our elected officials?

Too many of our Dems are in service to corporate-America vs Americans.

[Autumn]

7. Well that's a fucked up message,

because I can guarantee the republicans are not going to work with us.

[Kdillard]

8. I don't think that will help anything. I am just going to be happy that we kept the Senate.

[Phx_Dem]

9. Do we really need to continue listening to your Dem bashing

while people are still voting and before results are in? Giving it a fucking rest for one night, okay.

[suzie]

37. +1 trillion

[sandnsea]

10. Lots of polls said that

Even Jon Stewart said that. Wake up, that's what people think they want.

What they mostly want is to be part of the crowd, so if you're not rounding them up into your team, they're going to stray off to the other side.

[defendandprotect]

11. No -- I was just going to do that -- !!! Bring back Howard Dean for new WINS....!!!

Lots of personnel Obama should unload -- starting with Duncan, Summers and the

whole Wall St. crew!! Goldman Sacks!!

[jillan]

12. He did nothing. Nada. No coherent message. Not a fighter. ugh...

Bye bye Timmy!

[book_worm]

14. The house may be lost but if the dems do better in the Gov races

and senate than expected then he will have some bragging rights. For instance, we have chances in Ohio Governor, Florida Governor and surprisingly--South Carolina Gov. Plus if Dems take PA, CO and IL our Senate losses will be minimal--and then there is Alaska--I think that will be very interesting. If Dems manage to win there that would be a pick up.

I'm not saying he has been a good chairman but the night as far as I can tell hasn't been as bad as I thought.

[babylonsister]

19. Could Kaine or Dean have made the economy better and

people less angry? No, I didn't think so. :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

20. Kaine is a failure ... except at losing ...

and similar to many of Obama's picks who seem more corporate than democratic....

[babylonsister]

22. Try to answer the question. You can't, so bash a Dem. Great. nt

[defendandprotect]

31. It's a silly question ... unless YOU think head of DNC votes on budget ....???

[babylonsister]

36. He also has no control over the economy, which is why Dems

did so dismally tonight.

[brentspeak]

39. Poor economy + weak, clueless Democratic president + RW propaganda

+ hundreds of millions of corporate money + phony RW grassroots effort = GOP win.

(The Democratic party retained and expanded both House and Senate majorities in 1934 -- in the middle o the Great Depression. Why? Strong Democratic President who provided a direction people could clearly understand (the New Deal) + weak RW propaganda + no major corporate money funding GOP smear ads + no phony RW grassroots efforts.

[defendandprotect]

45. Exactly... MEDICARE FOR ALL would have set Democrats for next 40 years...!!!

Public well understands what has happened with deal making to preserve

PRIVATE health care --

They are suffering -- while right wing continues to buy more and more of government

and our elected officials!

Yes -- they well understand that!

[defendandprotect]

44. OBAMA had control over economy and at one point two months ago called it depression....

it was quickly scrubbed by Yahoo -- and replaced with "recession" --

OBAMA also had responsibility for MEDICARE FOR ALL --

76%+ of the American public wanted single-payer government run health care and numbers

still rising at the time of the vote!

Catholics supported same by 73% -- and 83% when Latinos/Latinas were included ---

and Catholics also wanted repproductive health care by large majorities on all items --

including simple CHOICE by 51%.

Rather, Obama made back room deals with Big Pharma and Health Care Industry ....

[Jennicut]

24. No, some just don't want to admit it.

[defendandprotect]

46. Why would anyone not want to admit that Kaine has little to do with economy ....

this is a foolish notion -- why even discuss it --

OBAMA had control over economy -- but unfortunately seemed more interested

in preserving PRIVATE health care industry and making sure that big business

got billions in stimulus than in improving the economy -- jobs, etal.

Rahm has 'crowed' about all of this saying "business should be grateful!"

Also about NOT nationalizing the banks -- and about expanding opportunities

to open up our public education despite union "skepticism."

On and on --

It's an overflowing pro-corporate agenda that has been delivered.

And the public well understands that!

[jillan]

25. No but he could've helped with the messaging over the last 18 months.

[spooky3]

29. agreed - I think this is one of our biggest weaknesses.

[political_Dem]

21. Hell no. We need someone who is fearless and takes no prisoners.

No more bipartisanship. We need fighters!

[Blue_Tires]

28. I never wanted him for that position in the first place...

He couldn't deliver the governorship of his own state (which should have sent up a bunch of red flags), and after tonight only Dems in the two safest districts will still be alive...

So WHAT is he good for??

[KamaAina]

30. I hear Rand Paul's staffer is available

to stomp some head. :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

47. You mean Rand Paul isn't taking his Campaign Coordinator "headstomper" to DC with him?

[mitchtv]

32. Maybe, but go ahead

I second it. Get rid of the 'phobe mf. I wish him nothing but ill.

[brentspeak]

40. This result was predictable almost as soon as Kaine was installed by Obama/New Democrats

[Dinger]

43. A Little Late If Anything (nt)