Lots of GOP psyops going on.....

[scheming daemons]

"we need to primary this President"
(designed to get Dems fighting with each other)

"Obama going to bring Hillary on as veep for '12"
(restart the primary wars, make Obama look weak)

"Obama bringing 34 war ships to India with him" (clearly false story meant to paint Obama as out of touch right after election)

"Obama to fire Geithner" (raise hopes so when it doesnt happen, liberals get disappointed)

"I'm moving to Canada" (meant to show liberals that it's no use, we should just give up)

"An apology to Hillary suppporters" (meant to show that Obama supporters have buyer's remorse, and you should too)

"Should progressives give up on politics?" (we should just guive up, it is hopeless)


There are many more examples. At conservative "shadow" sites that watch DU and other liberal sites, these are the tactics THEY are talking about. These are the kind of things they try on sites like ours to dishearten liberals.


Basically, any post that sounds defeatist and over the top in its despair and "giving up" should be taken with a grain of salt.

We're all disappointed in the election.... But some of the outlandish woe-is-me-ism that is going on is too contrived.

Plus... I monitor these shadow sites.... They're laughing at all the silly "Grayson in 2012!!" stuff and congratulating each other on the F.U.D. they're spreading on liberal sites (fear, uncertainty, and doubt)

Not ALL of it is GOP psyops, some of it is legitimate spinelessness and defeatism.

But in either case, don't succumb to it.

[mkultra]

1. "gays voted for republicans" attempt to villify the GBLT community.

[vaberella]

4. Where did this come from? Republicans are the ones who voted DADT measure out the window.

Oy.

[SteppingRazor]

96. It came from the fact that gay support for Republicans doubled from 2008 to 2010.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/gay-voters-republicans-doubled-2008_n_779111.html


Actually, according to that source, doubled (which is the word used in the headline) is a bit of an exaggeration -- it went from 19 percent in 2008 to 31 percent in 2010.

I agree with much of what the OP says as far as defeatism. (I don't, for the record think that many of these statements are "GOP psyops" so much as liberal agita.) That said, LGBT support for the GOP increasing from 2008 to 2010 is not a baseless meme, but a verifiable fact. That's what happens when a significant part of your base feels that its issues have been ignored, regardless of whether reality is that Democratic attempts at expanding gay civil rights were thwarted by the GOP.

[JAbuchan08]

152. Midterm turnout is down across the board

The "doubling" percentage-wise is reflective of this - and probably not an increase in support for Republicans. In other words, turnout is down, but gay Republicans represent a larger percentage of the electorate that DID turnout, because fewer people turned out! I'm surprised that this is not more obvious.

[Dave From Canada]

101. Gay Republicans were the ones that organized the lawsuit against DADT. For whatever reason, Obama

put a stay on the decision. Go figure.

[JoePhilly]

183. Why didn't a group of Gay Democrats bring this lawsuit?

[Chulanowa]

57. "Blacks voted for Proposition 8!"

...Oh wait.

[mkultra]

93. yup, same bullshit attempt to villify the black community

nice try

[Chulanowa]

102. Except DU seemed MUCH more willing to accept it

:puke:

[vaberella]

164. DU loved that shit. I was like---hmmm, lots of closet racists on this board.n/t

[louis-t]

109. Sounds like the same mo about the black community

they tried a few years ago. It went something like this: "The Dems haven't done anything for you so vote repug." You saw how well THAT worked for them.:eyes:

[patrice]

125. I have been hearing that at the grassroots level from a Black lady-minister friend of mine.

Someone who has worked in the trenches ALL of her life. She's VERY disappointed in her cohort.

I have been watching the group she is referring to on facebook; they're that "Democrats are the real racists" bunch that is around that one MLK daughter, whatever her name is. KC is rife with this stuff.

[axollot]

140. Eww. That is icky but I see it the same as any other part of the party.

..with issues that want addressing and are so long over due. For many people it does feel like they have been left behind, I have felt it too but have to pinch myself sometimes to say 'think this through, what was the alternative? How can we change this going forward?' All of us as Dems need to do that. Dems get things done slowly, but it's done right. Republicans get things done quickly, and it's illegal or only 'recently' made into law!

The money in this election was sick. Thankfully, more of it did not stick but enough of it did.

Cheers
Sandy

[patrice]

141. How? I think we need an Alternative US Chamber of Commerce.

[axollot]

142. I was thinking of how they were tied in to the Beck rally and your comment

of "Democrats are the real racists" portion of your comment. We do need something to fight the behemoth of The US Chamber. Right now that can be said across all spectrum's.
Bernie Sanders on Thom Hartmann today were talking about the need for further reaching people in areas like my own where progressives via radio, tv etc are not served. Hopefully we can do something to compete against what the CONS are doing right now.

Convincing the Black Community that they are being excluded from the Democratic Party due to racism is icky, it's not true either.

Cheers
Sandy

[DevonRex]

121. We're not gonna let them divide us like that.

:hi:

[vaberella]

2. Brilliant post. But it may not seem to get through to so many on DU.

Many of them are perpetrating each of your points.

[RaleighNCDUer]

170. Bullshit post. Just because the repubs will use such points to divide us

it does not mean that WE are not responsible for OUR loss - we fucking GAVE to the repubs till it hurt and got nothing in return.

You want to point fingers, point at the fucking blue dogs and fucking DLC. This bullshit is just more of the same from them to try to convince Dems that we have to go FURTHER to the right.

Fuck that.

[vaberella]

177. I have pointed fingers at the DLC and our Dem Congressman.

But blame must be put on the people who vote in the Congressman and the DLC members year after year. Get a clue man. These people don't get the job because they ask for it and paid a hefty price. They had to have the votes. Who put them there? We did---and unfortunately some Repubs. You also have to realize that the Dems are not made up of 100% moderates, and the REpublican's AREN'T moderates---what am I getting at---those idiots vote too. Those idiots vote and help to put people in power. So where does blame lie...with us. We need to take what the Dems do and articulate it properly with paper work and reason to the communities that are pushing a meme of hate. When Dems fail, we take it up. If we don't like what Dems are doing----we then fight for them for their seats and we give reasons why we want to do.

You have to realize, our loss of the house has little to do with the WH and even the Congress---because at the core is the constituencies in each district who have pushed away from the message. If the DLC or just the DNC fails on spreading the mission; it should be your duty as a demmocrat to spread that message properly.

[CakeGrrl]

3. And it gets eaten up like popcorn

It's really best to take a break from discussion boards after major activity takes place. Hard to resist, but probably better for some mental R&R!

[MrsCorleone]

5. No kidding.

Geez, it was such a nice place on Nov 2.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

6. For some strange reason I'm fired up to hassle the shit out of

the right wingers, to point out all of their failed policies, now is not the time to lay down and roll over.

[monmouth]

7. If you read the Dems posting at HuffPo, well, weak tea, resignation,

and not up to the task are just some of the opinions from the Democrats...

[drm604]

8. K&R

This is important.

[JI7]

9. Anyone who brings up Grayson as a challenger to Obama is an Idiot or a troll

why not instead work on getting Grayson to win his congressional seat back in 2012 ? i always know which ones are serious based on these things.

[Radical Activist]

58. Or even run him statewide.

He represented a swing part of the state. He could make a viable statewide candidate.

[axollot]

94. Yes, I live near his district. We didnt even have a Dem challenger in our district!

What the heck! We had an indie but no Dem and the worthless incumbent stayed in office. He does nothing, says nothing and keeps cashing those checks and enjoying the benefits. My district boarders on Graysons. Grayson has a lot of support state-wide and nationally. He may have lost his district but you would have to know Florida to understand that the I-4 corridor is like a giant line. North of that is really South Georgia, south of it, it gets more and more blue and less conservative. Grayson's district sat on the line.

Cheers
sandy

[karynnj]

81. Grayson's ad likely has made him politically unacceptable

It is patently dishonest to use a clip of part of a sentence where the full sentence says something completely different. His people may have thought it clever - but it left him wide open to being called dishonest. What it likely did was inoculate Webster on the issue that possibly could have stopped him - that his believes were too extreme.

I think the Democrats in his district would be nuts to renominate him if they have any other viable candidate.

[BeFree]

98. "...think the Democrats in his district would be nuts to renominate him"

How f'n anti-Grayson can you get?

Appears to me that the GOP psy-ops have gotten to you, big time.

You think one little ad, one maybe mistake is what brought down the most formidable opponent to the GOP?

[karynnj]

99. "most formidble opponent to the GOP" - no way

I am not in the least influenced by GOP psy-ops, I am influenced by my own internal values - and what he did in that ad is wrong. The sad fact is that had he not decided it was clever to use a quote completely out of context, it would have been a good ad bringing up the fact that his opponent was too extreme. (Look at how Reid - hit by FAR more in Republican targeting - handled Angle)

Beyond the dishonesty of doing that is the knowledge that the right has a very strong echo chamber. It took at most one day for them to find the full tape and play it continuously - contrasting it to how it was used in the ad. Did he not stop to think that would happen? So, the ad was both wrong and stupid - and yes, it may have sunk his campaign. (The may reflects the fact that he may have done this out of desperation if internal polling showed he was in trouble.)

This "mistake" let the Republicans take his other attacks on Republicans and dismiss all of them as being extreme. I know that many hear cheer any tough attacks on Republicans, but if they are deemed unfair - and this one was - they backfire.

[BeFree]

103. Who then?

Who is our champion that is above Grayson?

Your myopic vision of one little ad, which was true - he is a Taliban - and creating defeat from that one item is EXACTLY a GOP vision.

[karynnj]

107. Almost any Democrat you can name - starting with President Obama

I'm sorry, but in the campaign, it was not "one little ad". There were many HERE and on Daily Kos - highly partisan places - who said they didn't like it. My point is that the ad without that little clip added - would have brought up the questions you raise. That clip - because it was dishonest - became the focus of the entire ad - and it backfired badly.

Turn it around - if an ad took a part of a sentence spoken by a Democrat that distorted the meaning of the sentence - what would you be saying? How would you want undecided voters to react? (Note that in their case - more than ours - the undecided voters will hear the full sentence. Their echo chamber makes sure of that.)

[BeFree]

110. Ok

Are you saying that if he hadn't run that one ad, Grayson would have won?

[karynnj]

114. Actually I did not say that

The reason is that though there were no public polls at that time, I suspect that many who posted that he likely did this because his internal numbers looked bad might be correct. The most recent poll at that time was more than a month old.

What I am saying is that the reaction here likely meant that whatever chances he might have had were dimmed.

I really don't think there is anything more accurate I can say. It is possible that someone here was part of that campaign and has more information.

[BeFree]

116. You said

"Grayson's ad likely has made him politically unacceptable""

Are you now saying it didn't make any difference? You seem, just now, to be saying that you really don't have a clue. You seem to just be repeating the GOP points.

These are questions. I am just trying to figure out what you really mean.

[karynnj]

139. You seem to not understand English

In the earlier post, I said that the ad made him politically unacceptable. You asked if the ad was the reason he lost. I answered saying that it is not clear that he was winning at the point before he put out the ad.


Put into bullet points:
1) the ad LIKELY destroyed any chance he might have had
2) That it was not at all clear that he would win even before the ad

From 2, you could deduce that for this year's race, it might have not mattered if it was a lost cause. However, it likely does make him less likely to be able to regain the seat in the future - as it might be the one thing many moderates remember.

Not to mention, it is NOT a RW point to say that the ad was bad - even media matters did not defend him on that clip - and they are aligned with us.

[BeFree]

144. Politically unacceptable?

Not to me or most progressives. It told the truth, starkly.

To the GOP, he is your politically unacceptable. To me, he was the greatest we've seen in a long time. Entirely politically acceptable.

So, we have differences. As for me, I am real sad he lost.

[karynnj]

145. I am sad tht he lost as well

I should have said that up front.

I still have a problem with the ad. I agree that MOST of the content is important and honest. I also think the POINT he was trying to make -on Webster on the role of women (wives) is correct. The problem was that the ad represents something as something it wasn't. Now, you or Grayson may feel that he really believes what he heard to say - and you would get no disagreement from me, but it is not what he is saying there.

To give you a case - far more despicable - where the Republicans used it was the ad on Kerry's 1971 testimony. Kerry was called to speak of the winter soldier hearings. He started by saying that soldiers spoke of (list of atrocities). The Senators had the full transcript with identifying info on who said what. All the atrocities Kerry spoke of were things people confessed to at that hearing. The Republicans started the tape at the part of the list - saying before it that Kerry lied in accusing American soldiers. However, he neither lied nor did he accuse anyone of anything.

There is a difference - just as there is here. The sad thing here is that this likely was a good issue to use to make moderates decide that Webster was too extreme - that's why I alluded to Reid who did similar things. The really frustrating thing is that the clip adds very very little. Grayson himself did not make the ad - in retrospect, I bet he might want those little segments pulled out.

[defendandprotect]

151. Issue was low Dem turn out -- the "enthusiasm gap" ... in Florida ...

[axollot]

129. Ugh. That ad. You know before it went out there was a push for money..

..as there normally is before an ad goes out. But, he said he would be reading all comments - just something I noticed and thought OK, so I wrote him a note about
the ad. I hated it and saw it for the target it would be. Is Webster a creepy lil shite-head? Yep, and he deserves the tag "Taliban-Dan" or "Tali-dan" as I call him.
The guy put up legislation in Florida trying to ban divorce. In my mind, since divorce has hit nearly 50% of all marriages that would be a better focus than what seemed like a cut n paste speech out of context. And I was right.

This is Florida we are talking about and Grayson's district boarders on my own so I am very familiar with it. In fact my district had no Dem challenger! It votes 90% conservative in every election. That's pretty conservative. LOL

I wear a bright red shirt with the hammer/sickle and all the old commie leaders in various stages of partying - to the store etc and never think twice. I've been told that it was brave, naw. People do come up to me and ask me what it means and I tell them, these are the members of the Communist Party. It also gives me a chance to talk to them about other issues, health care for example.

One bad ad and a whole lot of money from the right wing spin machine brought Grayson down. He would be better on the scene state-wide than district wide. Or even on the national scene. He had more support outside of FL than within it.

Cheers
Sandy

[DevonRex]

122. Yep. And saying that isn't a knock against Grayson at all.

I'm betting he's been rolling his eyes at that stuff, too.

[defendandprotect]

150. I'm for either one ... a Grayson comback .. or any liberal/progressive Democrat

including Grayson opposing obama in 2012 --

We need a Democratic liberal/progressive to run in 2012 ....

Trying to shove off the many problems we've had with Obama as the fantasies of

of "idiots" or "trolls" simply makes clear your inability to deal with truth.

Here's some more truth you can ignore ....



Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:03 AM

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters tonationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the

overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...


and back room deals with Big Pharma and PRIVATE Health Care Industry --


Here you go ............ WASHINGTON — Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion.

Drug industry lobbyists reacted with alarm this week to a House health care overhaul measure that would allow the government to negotiate drug prices and demand additional rebates from drug manufacturers.

In response,the industry successfully demanded that the White House explicitly acknowledge for the first time that it had committed to protect drug makers from bearing further costs in the overhaul. The Obama administration had never spelled out the details of the agreement.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insur...

and

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html?_r=1


Enough to make anyone who can read sick to their stomach --

[truedelphi]

180. I am with you all the way, with what ever you are saying

It doesn't sound like the words of an "idiot" or a troll.

[truedelphi]

179. In Politics things change quickly. Often overnight.

I am pretty sure that back in 1958 anyone mentioning Jack Kennedy for "President In 1960" campaign, would have been considered an idiot or some kind a troll.

Or for that matter, anyone mentioning Obama in 2004 as a serious contender for 2008, would have been considered a slight whack job.

The "insiders" knew that Obama could not possibly defeat Hillary Clinton - and they knew that all the way up till the moment that he did so.

[SunsetDreams]

10. K&R I don't fall for it

[BeFree]

11. For two weeks I'd like to see

...all those downer posts, which really are just conspiracy theories, moved to their own forum.

Somebody please alert this post and tell the mods you agree.

[stevenleser]

12. K&R Exactly, either GOP psyops or those who don't know better that they are playing right into the

GOP's hands.

[karynnj]

82. I agree - and there are some users that post nothing but these extreme ideas

The ones I question the most are those who strongly and intelligently (even if dishonestly) continue to support ideas once others have clearly made the case that they are not correct. (Often by a direct quote from one of the people they are speaking of refuting it.)

[LiberalFighter]

100. And there are too many that post baseless negatives repeatedly.

[elleng]

13. Unfortunately a fair amount of it has caught on here already.

:(

[patrice]

133. Let's just call it out when we see it. We can do that can't we, as long as we don't use

the word "troll"?

[backscatter712]

14. Indeed - lots of trolls here right now!

I'm sorry, but I'm a lot more upbeat about our prospects than our enemies would like.

1. The GOP now has responsibility - now that they control the House, they can choose to govern and help the country, or they can do investigation circuses and Budget Chicken, and find that the fickle public will switch right back to Dems so fast their heads will spin.

2. Grab some popcorn, the GOP civil war's about to begin. The teabaggers and the old-school neocons aren't getting along.

3. The Democrats will now be more united and more progressive - we've got some villains to keep us focused now, and half of the Blue Dogs are out, so it'll be harder for them to water things down.

4. Obama is close to 50% in popularity - much more popular than Clinton was back in '94. Considering the pile of shit he has to deal with, he's actually holding together surprisingly well. And the strategy's now easy - all he has to do now is run against the do-nothing House and keep his veto-pen ready to quick-draw. If the House screws around, he can call them out on it.

5. There will be investigations, but Obama really doesn't anything in the way of dirt that the GOP can work with. Oh, sure, they can make shit up, but they won't even be able to find a sperm-stained dress. The worst they might be able to do is Rezko, but there's absolutely nothing there that indicates Obama did anything wrong, so we'll get some hearings on FAUX News and more conspiracy theories for Glenn Beck's chalkboard. They push too far, and it'll backfire.

[heidler1]

60. I'm in complete agreement with your view.

To me not calling other people EVIL is the way to go. On this latest bomb scare Obama's methods of dealing with the Muslim world caused mutual respect and helped track it down before any one got killed. I've been a successful business man with a CA Real Estate license plus I'm a CA General Contractor now retired. I happen to be a life long unashamed Liberal Democrat. I'm 85 years old.

I hope Obama rides this out to where the Republicans will be voter pressured to lay out a plan in written form and then and only then we should all pick thier plan to pieces. While submitting in written form any needed changes to Obama's own Bill previously passed, that deals with the same subject as the Republicans plan.

[DeschutesRiver]

68. Reflects my thoughts as well.

Now that it is post election, we know how things stand (whether we like it or not). And yeah, I think we can deal with it.

The GOP and the baggers are going to have an epic clash of wills. I thought it would take much longer than this to start, but I've seen the beginning already. The GOP has already officially told the baggers "thanks for the votes, chumps; now stand down."

There is no compromise within the group of baggers that understands what they want, and they are already about to blow over both the GOP's dismissal of them and the seats they wanted but lost. Yep, gonna be many popcorn moments ahead and shortly.

[SunsetDreams]

90. Great post backscatter, I agree.

[axollot]

143. Right there with you! #1 is my biggest. then #2..

:popcorn:

[azmouse]

15. K&R

[Cha]

16. Fuck the psych OPers...Anybody who has

a well developed brain knows what's going on but thanks for bringing it to light, schemingdaemons.

[CBR]

17. K&R nt

[butterfly77]

18. They started that shit on DU..

soon after the 2008 election and many have fallen for their lies and insinuations...

[firedupdem]

19. K&R n/t

[Number23]

20. Rec'd!

[Parker CA]

21. Great post and all too true. nt

[USArmyParatrooper]

22. Fricking Plus a MILLION if I could!

Boy does that crap look familiar.

[patrice]

135. It freaked me out. I've been gone from here for several months. Did not give to the last

fund drive, for the FIRST time ever.

I think I'm okay now. Having some form of concrete activism is the antidote to psy-ops.

[ampad]

23. I think one of the best ways

To deal with it is to let is sink. Let the post sink. The folks that are disappointed in the president may have the right to post whatever they want on this board. However, taking the bait only adds to the fuel. I am guilty of that and decided to just let it go. Nothing you say or do is going to change their mindset. It is time to be more constructive and just let it go. Great OP btw. I totally agree with you.

[John Commonsense]

24. Links to any of that, or is it all here in the DUniverse?

[JNelson6563]

25. K&R

Well done! :toast:

[Bobbie Jo]

26. Nailed it!

K&R :kick:

[w4rma]

27. Agreed. (nt)

[HughMoran]

28. Excellent post

:thumbsup:

[Fire1]

29. K&R

[ibegurpard]

30. I like the ones where Obama pledges cooperation with these lunatics

oh wait...

[laughingliberal]

45. +1 nt

[Foo Fighter]

49. Hey, what's your problem?

My Congresspeople sold me down the river on every single issue and I still love them!! And you should too!!

[flamingdem]

31. They smell blood and Rove is going crazy in the Psy-Op control room

He will be foiled.

[besdayz]

32. a

while it was effective painting him as a "socialist" the Rs shot their wad with all their radical shit......

anything they say about him personally is assumed now to be a lie......obvioulsy i'm not talking about the percentage of people who buy that stuff but they aren't in play anyway.....


if you look at polls, when they go after him personally with birthers, kenyan, muslim stuff most of the country gets turned off.......

[TuxedoKat]

33. Thanks

I wondered why there were so many strange troll-like posts the last few days, hadn't considered this angle.

[texastoast]

34. K&R

I've come across a bunch of those. It's not working. It makes me all the more empowered.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Ships in the Indian Oceans

comes straight from the RW press but that is their ECHO machine. Not Psy Ops, just things that people find.

We have that every so often for foreign visits.

I know for a fact though that when POTUS was in Mexico City they had the FIVE Marine Ones they always take, the two C-130s, you need to take choppers somehow. They rented three floors at a hotel in Polanco (which was a mess with security) but that is situation normal...

And I got to see one of the five Marine Ones... I could explain why they took all of them but why bother?

[sabrina 1]

63. Exactly. The rightwing is outspoken about those lies.

I don't understand this OP. Has anyone on DU published these lies as fact?

Unrec'd as this OP appears to be saying that members of DU are 'republican psyops'. Seems like an attempt to smear anyone who says something the OP doesn't like. I thought that was against the rules.

[Gin Blossom]

71. I agree.

It sure feels like a smear to me. Why bother having a discussion when everyone who doesn't agree with you must be a Republican psyop or caused our losses?

[StandingInLeftField]

148. Anyone with less than 15,000 posts is automatically considered a plant.

[DevonRex]

130. Good example, Nadin.

What kills me about that particular thing is that do people think Navy ships aren't already out at sea? Do they think they're sailing from D.C. to India? Do they think that Navy ships just sit in port when we're not at war?

And that source had previously published false info about the cost of the trip which was debunked by Fact Check. Yet somehow the very next article they print is somehow all true and worthy of being posted here?

[glinda]

36. K & R n/t

[catgirl]

37. Spot on n/t

[MrScorpio]

38. You nailed it, Bro

We are being played big time.

[JackRiddler]

39. Yes, some of these are really obvious.

[political_Dem]

40. K and R. Explains a lot.

[HuckleB]

41. K & R!!!

Let's refuse to buy this crap!!!!

[DimplesinMI]

42. K/R......

N/T :fistbump:

[Crunchy Frog]

43. Guess what? I don't need GOP psyops to be disheartened.

And if I had the option, you bet your life I would move to Canada.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

47. OK.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[girl gone mad]

48. Why not just go ahead and fire Geithner, then?

It would please the left and the right.

Plus, it's jut the correct thing to do.

[8 track mind]

50. It's about time somone said this!!! K&R

[TheeHazelnut]

51. please provide links to or proof of these mutiple GOP psyop "shadow sites" targeting DU

I tend not to believe claims of conspiracies without evidence.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_Tires]

53. major kick

[Number23]

56. major rec too

:thumbsup:

[DeadEyeDyck]

54. Like anyone under stress..

you can be played like a fiddle.

[hulka38]

55. Liberals aren't the ones likely to succumb to this.

If anything, centrists are the ones having difficulty distinguishing reality from fiction as evidenced by all the highly rec'ed threads just this past week denying the loss of the House. Liberals saw this coming. The real damage to the people the Party claims to represent comes from the Party itself in terms of the decisions it makes, not from psyops.

[DevonRex]

124. *snort* And there it is again. Won't work. nt

[ampad]

182. LOL

Because a rec thread on the DU is scientific evidence of what?

[Radical Activist]

59. I believe it.

[apocalypsehow]

61. Kick, Rec. n/t.

[Phlem]

62. Wow

.....

[PBass]

64. Kicked, recommended (NT)

[Hekate]

65. This should be kicked clear till 2012. It's grim right now -- but will be grimmer if we give in.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[FrenchieCat]

66. They are all over the board.......

just opining and speculating like they are paid pundits.
It's almost overdone.

Better to fake to be an Obama suppoorter for about six months,
and then turn on him. Those work better, I think.....
but it does take patience, and as we know, the folks doing the attacking
ain't got no patience, that's why they could barely give Obama one day of
inauguration before starting in on him.

Thanks!

[proteus_lives]

67. K/R.

[opihimoimoi]

69. KnR.... Ed Zachery

[lamp_shade]

70. K&R. Very well said, SD, and so true as evidenced by the 31 unrecs to your OP.

Trolls? Republican infiltrators? Who knows. Maybe just people who don't like you.
I like you.

[rug]

72. Criticism must be a Republican conspiracy.

I believe you because: "Plus... I monitor these shadow sites...."

:tinfoilhat:

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karynnj]

83. That is NOT what the OP said

what it spoke of is a series of conjectures that have surfaced - using from RW media - that try to create splits in the Democratic base. He gave a very nice list of them. Who do you think gains when there is speculation of Clinton primarying Obama? What it leads to here are threads with most people arguing that it makes no sense and won't happen - and others attacking either Obama or Clinton.

The fact is you can look and see some users who never post anything positive about any Democrat and go after every single voice in the Democratic party. Now, they could be far to the left - or they could be from the right.

[CBR]

85. RW language... nt

[SunsetDreams]

89. yup "Great Leader"

"fearless leader"

[bongbong]

74. Kinda OT, but kinda not

I read, and occasionally post, comments on Huffpo pieces. Huffington tries to be "non-partisan" so they have plenty of nutjob (i.e, wingnut) commenters.

In the days leading up to Nov 2nd, there were lots of "we're gonna win, ha ha ha" posts. But since Nov 2, that big flow has trickled down to almost nothing. In fact, there are frequent "where are the trolls?" comments now.

Just another data point proving how much effort the Koch Nazi Twins and countless other fascists make in controlling the discourse.

[groundloop]

75. Good Points. This "politics stuff" is a lot like sports competition.....

I coached youth baseball for a number of years and one of the things that becomes apparent real fast is whether a group of kids is really fighting to win, or whether they're afraid of losing. Each and every one of us (our electced leaders too) needs to get past just worrying about losing and get back to fighting to win. The Greedy Obstructionist Party has given us plenty of ammunition, we need to take advantage of it. We can start out by pointing out to our friends and relatives how un-American Mitch McConnel sounds when he says his number 1 goal is to take down President Obama - shouldn't his number one goal be to help our citizens get back to work with good paying jobs? What about improving our education system, is taking down the President more important that giving our kids a good education?

[grahamhgreen]

76. All Obama has to do is pick up the phone, and bring the troops home if he wants to win in 2012.

[grahamhgreen]

77. Seriously - what policy positions are the staunch Obama supporters fighting for?

[existentialist]

78. That's just how they operate.

start any number of crappy, downright silly rumors, and if they get any play at all get Fox news to report them as news . . .


Irrespective, if a credible primary challenge to Obama arises, I'm not saying that I wouldn't support him/her.

My disappointment also includes major ongoing operational paradigm differences.

[RoccoR5955]

79. Call them on their bovine fecal matter

And tell them that you are NOT going to buy it.
What's more is you should tell them that they are simply parroting the lies of Fox Propaganda.

[zeemike]

80. The real psyops is taking place right there on your TV

And most people never know it.
They use the basic principles of Pavlov on his dogs....reward them with entertainment and train them to salivate on que.
For instance....they sold us on torture buy having a show called 24 which showed us the need for it....to keep us SAFE.
Now Bush is proud of his ordering it done and brags about it in his book....and most people have bought into the notion that "sometimes" you just must do it.
TV is not just a vast wasteland it is a vast tool to program the dogs that watch it.

[GOTV]

84. You missed the best one ...

"The election results couldn't have been helped and Obama and the Dems should just stay the course"

What more could Republicans want?

[BridgeTheGap]

86. I know far too many people that REALLY feel defeated. I don't. Any reasonable person can see what

is going on here, if they pay attention. President Obama has lacked some political accumen in how he has handled some things. He has reached across the aisle numerous times, only be hissed and snarled at by repugs. It's only going to get worse. We have to devise ways of getting the truth out to those voters who don't seem to have a clue.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

87. I don't need to hear it to already feel it... re: "Should progressives give up on politics?"

I feel toyed, annoyed, and generally in a state of numbness right now.

However, once I take all the emotion out of it, (Thank you, Jon Stewart) I realize that the only way to fight this "shadow machine" is to continue to vote in my best interests and ideology (mainly for liberal Dems, and yes, Greens) and passionately encouraging others to do the same. That's where the fight is going down.

Times are unpleasant now but I can offer some semblance of comfort by encouraging folks to visit http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/">http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com.

PROGRESS IS MADE IN INCREMENTS!!!

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[siligut]

91. How can they believe we are so gullible?

Oh, wait, never mind. This is an excellent post, awareness is a step in the right direction.

[axollot]

92. Ya faced that today. Talking about campaign corporate $$ and was belittled.

It's B.S.! (not that it should matter but most of these came from folks w/low post counts and no profile to see how long on DU. My post count is low but been here for a long time - only a couple yrs off a decade in fact).

So I echo you today - DO NOT SUCCUMB TO IT! Do not be bullied into thinking you shouldn't support the President EVEN when you disagree with him. It's OK to disagree and still support him.

Having been here as long as I have I know as Dems we do not always see eye-to-eye on everything, at times that is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness. But I'm glad we do not move in 'lock-step' like the right wing. Covering our ears to the truth because it doesn't fit the narrative being sold.

Cheers
sandy
ranting all over DU today ;)~

[flamingdem]

95. I noticed also that mentions of Citizens United and corporate $ are belittled

thanks for pointing that out. That is the jugular we need to attack and they know it.

[live love laugh]

111. Election fraud is also belittled. nt

[flamingdem]

117. I want to research this more, a very complicated issue

but it looks like Deborah Bowen made sure the CA system was safe and look at the results.

Yes, it gets put in the tin foil category, perhaps because it's too so hard to control.

[AtheistCrusader]

97. Point of fact: the 34 ships thing

came from Indian media. Not American.

It was a gift from on high to the GOP though, holy crap they ran with that story. I've been debunking it all damn day, everywhere, facebook, etc. It's kinda nice to rub something so easily disproven in their faces though. I couple it with 'look how slanted and ignorant of accuracy the corporate media is'.

[cliffordu]

104. " legitimate spinelessness and defeatism"

HAh hah aH aH AH AH AHaH a haaahahhaha HAH AH ah

EXACTLY.

[Wednesdays]

105. I might agree with you about places such as DU, where anybody can log on

But, the criticism from the Left is also coming from sites such as Huffingtonpost and Bartcop. Are they part of the conspiracy, too? :shrug:

Or, maybe they're just going along with the current narrative, which is more believable IMHO. Even then, I'm sure Huffingtonpost, Bartcop, et al. are capable of thinking independently.

[patrice]

106. That crap has been going on around here since the first of the year.

[live love laugh]

112. Since the first of the year? It's been going on much longer than that and it has gotten worse. Many

have left and I hardly post because I know it when I see it and I tire of it.

[patrice]

113. I am back only just now myself. FRAKKING sick of watching the "gate keepers" and their running dogs

herding dupes around with stupid little treats . . . :puke: "Be one of the cool kids and we'll be nice to you!" :puke:

We're only slightly better than the other side when it comes to people doing their own thinking.

[NYC Liberal]

118. Some posters who are attacking Obama today, have been attacking him since 2004,

before he even became a Senator.

For realz.

[patrice]

123. The "kool kidz" thing works REAL well around here. That's why they are here. Makes me want to vomit.

[DevonRex]

127. Me, too.

It's like Jr. High. I'd laugh if I could.

[patrice]

128. Some people are just toooooooooo needy to trust.

[DevonRex]

134. I just never thought there would be

so many. And I never thought there were so many weak Dems - people who cave at the first sign of difficulty.

[patrice]

136. The job boards are full of "write for the internet" jobs.

Facebook threads, especially for folks like Alan Grayson, are/were FULL of vicious hateful sick-frakking trolls re-puking ALL OVER THE PLACE.

[defendandprotect]

153. Evidently, government has hired 75,000 propagandists ....!!!

[patrice]

156. I don't know what you're talking about. They were from private businesses.

[defendandprotect]

161. Yes ... private interests have hired them .... but government also has hired

75,000 propagandists --

[patrice]

162. Link please. And given the situation that exists in American media, why shouldn't the government pay

people to explain itself.

[defendandprotect]

165. Just recently read that in an article I didn't pick up link to ....

but I'll try to check into it again --

BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS PROHIBITED FROM PROPAGANDIZING THE PUBLIC ....

though they do it anyway.

Did you like it when Bush did it?

[patrice]

169. What I am objecting to here is lumping whatever all together as propaganda.

[defendandprotect]

172. That's why I broke it down ....propaganda works to short-circut thinking.....

it works on emotions -- creating instant hatreds --

like "Welfare Queens" --

Explanations of programs is something quite different --

The article I read said "propagandists" -- that's what I'm referring to.

In the Nixon White House they studied right wing propaganda -- Nazi propaganda --

[patrice]

163. Or would you prefer that there be no one to inform tax payers about what their taxes buy? How to use

it, whom to contact, where to go, etc.

You call them propagandists because you are a bigot.

[defendandprotect]

167. What you're talking about isn't propaganda ... which short circuits thinking ....

and trades on emotional reactions --

Social Security, for instance, used to go out to explain to public how the

system works -- that's not propaganda.

Wall Street Journal telling public for 20 years that Social Security is

"a Ponzi scheme" is PROPAGANDA.


Try to get a grip --

[apocalypsehow]

181. +1. n/t.

[creeksneakers2]

108. Unity

http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/_memos/tds_SM_Dems_after_election.pdf

[patrice]

138. Thanks for that. Will read later. I'm going to help whatever the Young Democrats around here decide

to *DO*.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYC Liberal]

119. Big K&R!!

:kick:

[Aramchek]

120. these same lies are popping up everywhere. even the music messageboards I frequent.

Goebbels would be so very proud.

[JTFrog]

126. Ain't that the truth. K&R!

[patrice]

131. K & R

[Drale]

132. A republican is a born lier

you can not believe them as far as you cant through them.

[DevonRex]

137. Thank god somebody said it. Huge K&R. nt

[Spazito]

146. Excellent OP!

:applause: and recommended.

[Scurrilous]

147. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Iris]

149. K&R

[bbgrunt]

154. psyops often uses the rove strategy of projecting one's own

motivations and actions onto their enemies. Accusing others of exactly what you are doing. It seems to be a very productive technique.

[patrice]

157. Also echoing anything you hear with your own twist.The whole MEDIA/thing = one BIG echoe chamber.

[defendandprotect]

168. Where has our response been to "Democrats ... the food stamp party" ....?????

The problem is very much -- and has been for three decades and more --

AN UNRESPONSIVE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!


or --

"TAX AND SPEND DEMOCRATS" ... ???

[AlbertCat]

173. Where has our response been to "Democrats ... the food stamp party" ....?????

Well, "The Party Of No" meme for Repugs just can't get a start, because Wolf Blitzer and Chuck Todd just laugh it off and don't say it seriously like they do "Tax and Spend Democrats".

(Of course a "Tax and Spend" party is much better than a "Don't Tax and Spend" party or even a "Don't Tax and Don't Spend" party for that matter.... but that apparently is too subtle for the news....or the citizenry.)


If the media won't report it, how is it to get out? Especially to older folks who don't surf the web.


Besides, what's wrong with being "The Food Stamp Party"? Food stamps are good.

[defendandprotect]

175. I'd like to hear the response ... if it exists ...?

Nothing wrong with being the party of "food stamps" --

but did Democrats make that reply?

I don't think so ...

[EvilMonk]

155. Paranoia

Just because they aren't out to get you doesn't mean you can't freak out.

[patrice]

158. As equally likely as: Just because you think they aren't out to get you, doesn't mean they aren't.

[patrice]

159. i.e. in the very same common school of thought that assumes saying something makes it so.

[GeorgeGist]

160. Care to divulge these "shadow" sites so I can verify your claim?

[emulatorloo]

166. Yes - lots of dirty tricks coming out of GOP think tanks. Thanks for posting n/t

[TheKentuckian]

171. The Republicans don't have the brain power nor comprehension of abstract concepts to play us

They take advantage of existing issues and tell lies that no one much believes.

[defendandprotect]

174. Newt Gringrich is an expert rw propagandist -- unfortunately ....

The Nixon White House was also studying Nazi propaganda --

old Nazi films --

W talked about "catapulting the propaganda" --

And despite how inexpert we may think the GOP, they don't have to be very

adept at anything in order to have right wing corporate press finding

them to be without fault!

And it's also the lack of response from Democrats which really, really hurts

and does damage.

What was our reply to the most recent GOP salvo ... "Democrats: The Food Stamp Party"

I haven't heard one yet -- maybe I missed it?

It took decades to get a reply to "partial birth abortion" --

"Partial truth abortion" -- !!

Someone isn't trying -- !!

[TomCADem]

176. K & R! They Are Rarely Caught - Latinos for Reform

Most of the time they work with absolute impunity.

[SunsetDreams]

178. Kick