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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:20 PM
Original message
Was it worth it?
WAS IT WORTH IT?....

Peggy Noonan's column in the Wall Street Journal yesterday was rather painful to read. It featured a combination of arrogance, condescension, and cheap partisan shots, but putting all of that aside, it also started with a familiar question:

'The people have spoken, the bastards." That would be how Democrats in the White House and on Capitol Hill are feeling. The last two years of their leadership have been rebuffed. The question for the Democratic Party: Was it worth it?

If it seems like you've been seeing those same four words -- was it worth it? -- all week, it's not your imagination. The ubiquitous question is based on the assumption that Democratic losses were the result, not of awful economic conditions, but of the party's agenda. The president and his party completed some remarkable policy achievements, but, the argument goes, those breakthroughs only pay electoral dividends if the public likes the policies. Instead, voters disapproved, strengthening the GOP "wave."

The evidence to bolster this case, rather than blaming the economy, remains thin. But for the sake of conversation, let's go with it. Let's say Democrats effectively made a giant trade -- they forfeited their House majority, and in exchange, Dems had one of the most successful congresses of the century, passing landmark legislation generations in the making.

Of course it was worth it. This is what big majorities are for.

There have been plenty of pieces making the case, and I'd recommend items from Cohn, Chait, and Sargent, among others. But I was especially struck by William Saletan's Slate piece yesterday, not only because I disagree with him from time to time, but because I was nodding in agreement when he explained, "(I)f health care did cost the party its majority, so what? The bill was more important than the election."

Politicians have tried and failed for decades to enact universal health care. This time, they succeeded. In 2008, Democrats won the presidency and both houses of Congress, and by the thinnest of margins, they rammed a bill through. They weren't going to get another opportunity for a very long time. It cost them their majority, and it was worth it.

And that's not counting financial regulation, economic stimulus, college lending reform, and all the other bills that became law under Pelosi. So spare me the tears and gloating about her so-called failure. If John Boehner is speaker of the House for the next 20 years, he'll be lucky to match her achievements. <...>

It's funny, in a twisted way, to read all the post-election complaints that Democrats lost because they thought only of themselves. Even the chief operating officer of the party's leading think tank, the Center for American Progress, says Obama failed to convince Americans "that he knows their jobs are as important as his." That's too bad, because Obama, Pelosi, and their congressional allies proved just the opposite. They risked their jobs -- and in many cases lost them -- to pass the health care bill. The elections were a painful defeat, and you can argue that the bill was misguided. But Democrats didn't lose the most important battle of 2010. They won it.

Call me old fashioned, but I thought the point of getting elected is to try to make a difference. Acquiring power just for the sake of having it is hollow exercise in vanity. Once in a great while, officials have an opportunity to use their power to improve the lives of their fellow citizens and make the country considerably better off.

I get the sense this week that some would have counseled Democrats to let the opportunity pass for the sake of their careers. "We didn't do much," Dems could say this week, "but at least we're still in charge."

What nonsense.

Democrats started 2009 with an abundance of political capital, which they proceeded to invest. The efforts didn't pay off on Tuesday, but the dividends for the country will be felt for years.


Damn right it was worth it.

Now ask the people of these states.

The people have spoken, but Republicans obviously got the wrong message



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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Many policies have not even had a chance to work.
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Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Well duh, when a date isn't set till 2014, that's what you get. Policies that have
no current effect. Not a smart move in and of itself.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. When Republicans win
Edited on Sat Nov-06-10 12:39 PM by ProSense
Democrats turn into cowards, according to some, and it's not just elected Democrats.

After passing the New Deal, FDR lost 72 seats in the House and 6 in the Senate during the 1938 elections. He lost more during the next mid-term.

Same with LBJ.

Do you really think that the effective date is the problem?

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Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. In the general populace feeling any of the benefits of HCR, yes.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. I hope it was worth it.
This scenario reminds me of LBJ and the Voting Rights Act. Once it got passed, he said he knew the South was lost to the Democrats...

But. It was worth it.

Same story here.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Obviously,
some are prepared to answer: No.

Sad, really. Maybe they can drop Noonan a letter telling her they agree.



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Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I don't know, it might be worth it, but imo too much was given away in order
to get it passed, it took too much time and attention away from the economy and jobs, and it's delay in implementation is allowing for even more outrageous rate hikes now, just like the credit card bill did before its implementation date(s).
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. 680 seats in the state houses moved from Democrat to Republican.
Edited on Sat Nov-06-10 12:37 PM by dkf
This in a time when we will be looking at redistricting. When you look at the costs, it is not just losing the majority now, but perhaps for the decade.

Was HCR worth a minority role for perhaps the next decade?

In addition I do believe we spent all our time and political capital on HCR when we should have been spending it on jobs. And now with the Republicans trying to cut spending which will probably lead to job losses we will only be further behind. Yet we can blame the Republican house as being obstructionist but we still control the Senate and the Presidency giving us no outs.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hmmm?
Edited on Sat Nov-06-10 12:34 PM by ProSense
Meet the new bogeyman: redistricting

Looking across the state and local governments, there is no telling what the results mean for the next election. There is a lot of fear mongering around redistricting, but no one can be certain about the impact that will have.

People are making too much of the GOP house victory. Yeah, that was a lot, but it doesn't matter if they lost 30 or 60 when the other party gains control the House. The Dems gained 31 seats in 2006 to control the House (with about the same margin Republicans now hold). Dems gained another 21 in 2008 to increase their majority to 257, which is 17 seats more than the new Republican majority.

Also, unlike 1994 and 2006, the party out of power failed to take control of both chambers of Congress, that is significant. It keeps Republicans at a disadvantage.

In 2006, Democrats gained the majority in the Senate, but there is a big difference between a 2-seat and and a 6-seat margin, especially when Dems control the WH.

Yeah, Demcocrats lost a lot of House seats, but this isn't a disaster. Now, Republicans are on the hot seat.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. If you don't think the Republicans are chortling at the ability to carve up districts
Edited on Sat Nov-06-10 12:42 PM by dkf
You don't see much of the big picture.

Now more than ever demographics are the key to these elections. And with the mapping technology that is available the ability to create favorable districts will be greater than ever.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Republicans chortle about a lot of things
Edited on Sat Nov-06-10 12:51 PM by ProSense
That doesn't guarantee success. If people were worried about redistricting, they should have taken their butts to the polls and voted.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The people don't care about Rs or Ds. They are increasingly I.
Frankly trust in Government is low across all instritutions from the Federal level to the local. Yet what is the recourse when it is the election system that requires hoards of cash that produces less than stellar candidates on all sides.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. You bet it was worth it.
The most productive congress in decades. We moved forward.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well we should be celebrating our victories and feeling satisfied then.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes, celebrating the victories and not putting down the progress.
As for satisfied....there should be more to come. Of course since the repukes have the house we won't be seeing any of that for a couple years. Have to go back to what Pelosi got passed and work on those.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. Excellent article, with excellent points.
Dems may have lost the "message" war (again), but they did what was important. They did their job. K&R.
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