Fines or Jail Time for not having insurance is coming soon.

[wolfgangmo]

This from the NYTimes - High Premiums in Senate Democrats' Health Plan - By David M. Herszenhorn and Robert Pear - (Thursday, December 10, 2009) - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/11/health/policy/11insure.html?_r=1&ref=health

"WASHINGTON - Senate Democrats have provided few details about their latest health care proposal, but this much seems clear: Anyone who wants to buy the same health benefits as members of Congress, or to buy coverage through Medicare, should be prepared to fork over a large chunk of cash.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, a family of four earning $54,000 in 2016, when the health legislation is fully in effect, would be eligible for a subsidy of $10,100 to help defray the cost of insurance under the health legislation being debated by the Senate. By then, one of the most popular federal plans, a nationwide Blue Cross and Blue Shield policy, is projected to cost more than $20,000."



Here are our choices; don't have insurance and pray you never get sick and if you do swallow a gun so your family doesn't lose everything, pay a fine and get "taxed" for being poor, or go to jail. Sure, not having insurance isn't a crime yet but how long will it be before they criminalize not having insurance?

Lot's of American's already can't afford medical care. The health care "plan" will force more American's off the rolls and will penalize those of us who can't afford it. The news from the corporate controlled congress is clear - pay your corporate overlord or pay the price.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. who is going to check?

[Armstead]

4. On your tax form -- "Please provide proof of insurance" or something like that

[Rosa Luxemburg]

18. I expect people would forget to send it

just think of the bureaucracy

[Soylent Brice]

15. papers please.

[sasquatch]

2. I wonder how many Americans will try to return to their ancestoral homelands

[Armstead]

3. Health reform isn't supposed to make it affordable

Goshyou are being foolish.

The purpose is tom protect the insurance companies so they can continue gouging the public. And if people on limited incomes have to be sacrificed, so be it.

get your mind right.

(sarcasm)

[Vincardog]

5. If they put is jail for not having insurance, will they provide medical care then?

[elocs]

6. Can I get a fine or jail time for not paying my taxes if I cannot afford to pay them?

Is that coming soon too? :shrug:

[Armstead]

9. That's a ridiculous comparison.

[elocs]

12. That's your opinion. We do live in a nation of laws and when you break them there are penalties.

choices/consequences

Let's also add "disingenuous" because anyone who cannot afford insurance will have theirs subsidized, but if you can afford to pay for insurance you don't get to choose not to be covered and to save the money, but then when you get sick or need medical assistance it is "help me!".

[Armstead]

14. Did you read the article? Partially subsidized -- which still leaves people with a big bill

Enforced enrollment to a private corporation is way different than paying taxes for public services.

Plus, taxes are totally based on what you earn. You don't earn anything you don;t pay taxes. You don;t earn much, you don't pay much.

You are stuck paying an insurance bill, regardless of whether you earn money or not. That's a significant impingement on indicidual freedom -- ESPECIALLY IF THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T ALSO OFFERING YOU A PUBLIC ALTERNATIVE.

[winyanstaz]

16. well thats a lie...

A lot of laws have been broken by those in high places of power. You dont see them going to jail or even being investigated.
This is no longer a nation of laws. This is a nation of the rich get to walk free when they commit crimes and the poor get to go be slaves behind prison walls.

[Sub Atomic]

7. That works for me!

At least I'll get free healthcare in jail.

:sarcasm:

[Teaser]

8. good. then I hope you go to jail.

.

[Sub Atomic]

10. You forgot this:

[kestrel91316]

11. Please cite link to where in the bill it specifies jail time.

Failure to pay an administrative tax/fine such as this does not result in jail time here in the US.

Prove it or STFU with this crap.

[TwilightGardener]

13. They do need to find a way to bring those premiums down, or the whole point

of this effort becomes moot. Let's say a family spends $800 a month on premiums (and can't really afford that), and then starts receiving a subsidy to help them pay for it because of the HCR bill--yay, right? But then the insurance co is allowed to raise the cost of the policy so that the family is STILL paying $800 out of pocket in premiums, even WITH the subsidy? That's sort of double-dipping by the insurance co's. They'd better find a way to fix this scenario.

[asdjrocky]

17. Cool.

Then they can put me in jail and I'll finally get my medical needs addressed.

[Davis_X_Machina]

19. In the only place where there is a purchase mandate...

...no public option on its exchange and fines for non-compliance, the number fined has fallen from year to year, and no one has gone to jail. And the citizens of that state support the program, in the depths of a recession, by 2-1

Not that anybody here cares.

[Blue-Jay]

25. Posting pesky facts like that

Why bother

[Jersey Devil]

20. Reminds me of a client who wanted to stay in jail

Years ago I had this guy as a client who was in jail for not paying child support. I was appointed to represent him pro bono by a judge. Usually in those cases the guy, after a few days in jail, has a friend or relative come up with some cash to pay toward the child support and agrees to pay towards the arrears a little each month and the judge cuts him loose from jail (until the next time he falls seriously behind).

Well, the judge started yelling at me as though it was my idea when after visiting him I went back to court and told the judge the guy wanted to stay in jail. He told me that they were fixing his teeth with free dentistry (at a nearby dental college no less), he was getting medical attention for another problem and prescription drugs to cure yet another problem. They guy said there was no way he could afford to do any of that if they let him out of jail so he wanted to stay. And he did, at least until all his medical and dental problems were taken care of.

So, if you don't have medical insurance and you are sick, maybe the answer it to go down to the local police headquarters and throw a brick through the window.

PS - I never got appointed to represent anyone else behind in support by that judge again.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. I will write form prison, because I am not paying...nt

[Inuca]

22. Notice how the NYT quote does not say anything about jail?

Why? because it was taken out during the finance committee markup and I am sure it was not brought back when the two versions were merged.

Jail time is absurd, a fine is OK. It only makes sense when the pre-existing conditions cannot be used any longer to deny coverage. Not that I defend the loathed insurance companies, but it would be nonsensical to allow people to get insurance when they get sick and then opt-out once they are better only to get back in when something is wrong again. And it's consistent with what happens in the famous and much beloved single-payer systems, you HAVE to pay your share, it is not an option.

Incidentally, I doubt that all packages will cost around $20,000 (at least I hope they won't). The point being that it is much easier to criticize and be holier than thou (an no, I am not necessarily referring to you personally) and much more difficult to come up with a workable, albeit imperfect solution.

[quantass]

23. Stock prices on Insurance Firms are Skyrocketting...shame on Washington.

[Clear Blue Sky]

24. The fine will be cheaper than the insurance.

Wait til you get sick, then buy the insurance. You can't be excluded or denied coverage.