Things like this are why I think I need to take a break from all things political. For life.

[cherokeeprogressive]

From the 60 Minutes interview that everyone still seems to be swooning over:

"And you know, when you're campaigning, I think you're liberated to say things without thinking about, "Okay, how am I gonna actually practically implement this?"

Thanks for opening my eyes, Mr. President. Here I thought that it was mostly the rethugs who would say whatever it took in order to get elected. You've now shown me, with your own words, that NO CAMPAIGN PROMISE by any politican of any stripe should ever be taken at face value. I'm blown away by the thought that saying whatever it takes to get elected is somehow "liberated".

In light of your implication that you might have spoonfed certain groups what they wanted to hear in order to get their vote, without first contemplating HOW you would go about doing what you said you'd do, how should I view your promise to repeal DADT and the whole "Fierce Advocate" thing?

Every now and then I find a kernel of truth amidst all the hyperbole and rhetoric we call political discourse. Thanks for dragging this one (the notion that getting elected is more important than fulfilling promises) into the light.

So if you're speaking in front of the local Knitting club, promise them free yarn! If you're speaking in front of the local Vegan Society, promise to eradicate dead flesh from the diets of ALL humans, not just Americans! If you're speaking in front of the local Kite Flying organization, promise them constant gentle winds! Fuck it; get their votes first, THEN figure out how you're going to placate them after the election is won. That about right?

So the game is not to go into a campaign appearance with an agenda, but to let who the audience is determine what the agenda of the day should be.

How could I have ever missed that?

[Yo_Mama]

1. Okay, I sympathize

We are all frustrated right now.

But the fact is that we can pretend to ignore politics, but the choices politicians make will of course affect our daily lives anyway.

It is better to be involved and try to influence things toward sanity.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. When your President tells you that he's liberated to make campaign promises without first

contemplating how hard it might be to implement them, nay, how they might be implemented at all, how can one really be "involved"? If voting is the height of the arc as far as political involvement goes, how can I look someone in the eye or speak them on the phone and convince them that my candidate speaks only truth?

[Clio the Leo]

12. "that my candidate speaks only truth"

.... then you might be over promising to begin with.

Obama is human .... yes, pains me to admit that he's not a demi-god, but that's all he is. He's not incapable of erring, he's not incapable of failing. All we can ever do when we pick a candidate to work for us is NOT to pick someone who's perfect but to pick the candidate who's better than the others.

And while Barack Obama isn't perfect, he's FAR better than almost anyone else out there .... as tonight's interview with George Bush is painfully reminding me.

[cornermouse]

53. When you "over promise" as you so delicately put it,

and know that you will never be able to follow through on it before you speak the words, you are telling lies. Please tell me how George Bush's lies are different from Barack Obama's lies?

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Thou shalt not over promise.

Let your yes be yes, your no be no, anything more comes from evil. That is from the Bible, which the President claims to live by so devoutly that he simply can not support equal rights for some minorities. Jesus said 'let your yes be yes'. Jesus did not say prevent others from happiness. He did say that only the perfect should dare judge another, then he himself refused to cast that stone. Yet Obama, who felt 'liberated' to 'over promise' judges millions, and claims that he is doing so in the name of God.
The idea of some guy who thinks he has the right to say whatever it takes, then tell me he's a Christian so I should not marry, I am sorry but that is the very picture of hypocrisy. Of self service.
The 'Scriptures' which apparently curse my people do not mitigate mendacity under political circumstances, leaders are not liberated from truth, they are held to it even more than others. When much is given, much is expected.
It just gets old as hell having to cope with this double standard.

[zalinda]

57. Oh, please................

What did you expect? He lied to his constituents in Illinois when he ran for the US Senate. He said he wouldn't run for the Presidency in his first term. It took about a few days after the election to break that promise.

zalinda

[Clio the Leo]

2. He's talking about the difficulties of fighting against lobbies and the Senate's traditions...

... but thanks for completely taking that out of context. We will miss you terribly.

Full quote...

Well you know, that's one of the dangers of assuming power. And you know, when you're campaigning, I think you're liberated to say things without thinking about, "Okay, how am I gonna actually practically implement this."

I don't think I was naïve. I just think that these things are hard to do. You know, this is a big country. And democracy is an inherently messy business. And Congress is an institution that has a whole lot of traditions, some of 'em that aren't, you know, all that healthy. And there are a lot of special interests who've got a lot of power. And a lot of lobbyists who are paid a lot of money to influence legislation.

And so, you know, it's a hard, long slog to push up against that.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/07/60minutes/main7032276_page3.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody">Transcript

[SunsetDreams]

5. Thank you for that Clio, full quotes help

[Clio the Leo]

10. You remember what we learned in elementary school...

"Reading Is Fundamental" and "Knowledge Is Power"

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. "full quotes"? Did Clio leave Kroft's follow-up question out of her "full quote" on accident?

"PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well you know, that's one of the dangers of assuming power. And you know, when you're campaigning, I think you're liberated to say things without thinking about, "Okay, how am I gonna actually practically implement this."

KROFT: Do you think you were naïve?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, I don't think I was naïve. I just think that these things are hard to do. You know, this is a big country. And democracy is an inherently messy business. And Congress is an institution that has a whole lot of traditions, some of 'em that aren't, you know, all that healthy. And there are a lot of special interests who've got a lot of power. And a lot of lobbyists who are paid a lot of money to influence legislation."

[Clio the Leo]

15. huh? No, I left it out on purpose for brevity ....

... but how does that change what he said?

(I'll help you out, it doesn't.)

In case you haven't noticed it yet, just because a reporter ASKS something, doesn't make it a fact. ;)

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. I'll stand by the OP.

He said that a candidate is liberated to make promises first, and contemplate how they might be implemented later.

[TheWraith]

22. In other words, you're wrong and you don't want to admit it.

So you're changing what you claim he said. :eyes:

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. Not quite.

He said candidates for political office are liberated to say things without thinking about whether or not their implementation is practical.

[Clio the Leo]

33. So it's HIS fault the GOP waged a full-scale war of obstruction against him?

He was supposed to be able to anticipate that?

No.

[jgraz]

47. No one could have possibly seen that coming

Cuz before 2009, Republicans were always so reasonable. :sarcasm:

[Exilednight]

73. And you know, there's that whole being "the smartest guy in the room" "3d chess" thing he has going.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Autumn]

75. Silly Democrats. We were making it all up,

that republicans ALWAYS obstruct Democratic Presidents. :sarcasm: You can't be serious. If he couldn't anticipate that then he is clueless. And I really doubt he's clueless. Yes he should have anticipated that, unless he lives in an alternate universe. You make him sound like an idiot.

[TheWraith]

38. And you claimed he was confessing everything he said was a lie.

It's kind of hard to actually walk that back.

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. Find the word lie in my post.

Wouldn't I have to actually USE the word lie if I "claimed" he was lying?

His own words tell me he thinks making campaign promises without first wondering how he'll implement them isn't lying. I'll agree that it might not be. If I had to go to those lengths though in order to get elected, I'd rather not hold the office.

[TheWraith]

44. You're attempting to weasel out of what you said because you were wrong.

A more adult response would be to apologize.

[Exilednight]

74. A more adult response from you would be "I understand your frustration, I don't agree ..............

but I understand."

I agree with the OP, Obama admitted to writing checks without having the money in the bank. Does that mean he doesn't have the right intentions? No, but he believes it's easier to make a campaign promise without really thinking it through.

[mahina]

56. You can't always know what lies ahead in the battle.

But your choice is your own. Godspeed.

[SunsetDreams]

18. How does that help?

Kroft: Do you think you were naive?

President Obama: No, I don't think I was naive.

Clio posted Obama's quote, because that's what you posted. Did you post Kroft's question?

[ProSense]

23. Nothing matters.

One article is making the claim: "On 60 Minutes, President Obama apologizes to America for being a Democrat"

This is non-stop just say any damn thing to ridicule the President. At least we know Republicans are trying to destroy him. Not sure what the point of the above is.

[Clio the Leo]

32. I never fail to read posts like the OPs ...

... and not be reminded of Obama's quote from "Audacity" in which his candidacy serves as a blank canvass for which so many projected their varied idealogical viewpoints.

There was simply NO way he was going to attract everyone from the far left to the moderate right and make ALL of them happy ALL of the time. I figure as long as the far left complains he's too far right and the far right complains he's too far left then he must be doing something right.

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Why leave out the question Kroft asked in response to his comment about

candidates being liberated to tell constituents what they'll do without first contemplating the veracity or even the possibility that they might not fulfill such promises?

[SunsetDreams]

27. Why did you leave it out?

It makes it kind of hard for that argument to hold up.
Your complaint is that someone left out a question, when you in fact did the same thing.

What matters here is the full quote has now been posted, and people can draw their own conclusions with context.

[Clio the Leo]

35. Kroft said...

"Do you think you were naïve?" and he said "No, I don't think I was naïve."

I'm afraid we're missing your point. .... and I'm bored ..... so indulge us.

[Clio the Leo]

29. I THINK what the OP is saying is that...

.... since Kroft asked "were you naive" he therefore must be. (Because the press ONLY asks the truth .... or something.)

If I ever meet Obama, I'm going to say "Do you give out free cupcakes and Jimmy Choo's?" .... because questioning it makes it so!

[Whisp]

11. interesting how the entire quote has an Entire different meaning?

Must have been an error in judgement on the OPs part. *ahem
Too bad he's gone and will never know.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. Gone?

[Whisp]

37. when is that break you taking happening?

or did I misunderstand your post.

maybe take up some whittling or painting, that's always relaxing.

[GeorgeGist]

68. Although he denies it ...

he was and still is NAIVE.

[TheWraith]

3. Seriously, get a grip.

You've read a ton of shit into that statement that simply isn't there. Obama is commenting on the dangerous disconnect between how easy it is to make campaign promises, and the work of knowing how to fulfill them--he's explicitly speaking to the EXACT OPPOSITE of how you read that.

[crim son]

4. I didn't see the interview. Did he really say that?

Sort of like using the insanity defense, isn't it? Maybe a break is indeed in order.

[TheWraith]

6. He didn't say what the OP thinks he did.

Rather the opposite. Read post number 2.

[crim son]

14. How foolish a man do you believe him to be?

Is the the only person who didn't know, while making his promises, that they would be nearly impossible to implement? Jeez, we don't have to go back too many years to see an example of exactly what he faced. No, I don't think the OP is wrong. The man made promises he couldn't keep, and he did it knowingly. That, or he's dumber than I am. Yep, leaving myself open; enjoy yourself. My point is made.

[ProSense]

17. Hmmm?

"The man made promises he couldn't keep, and he did it knowingly.

Promises aren't guarantees. He can't see into the future and predict how members of Congress will vote.

"That, or he's dumber than I am."

Can you see into the future?

[Baltoman991]

24. LMAO!!!

The entire quote was posted for you, word for word yet you're going to stand by the OP and the half quote? Seriously?

Damn, the hatred has reached the point that even "Liberals" are now ignoring his words and making their own shit up.

Gotta love DU and what it's become.

[Clio the Leo]

7. Nope...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=515582&mesg_id=515592

[SunsetDreams]

9. Check out Clio post#2 for full quote, it's out of context. just a bit

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. I support your conclusion

that you need a break. Maybe a nap.

:eyes:

[boppers]

20. Shirley Sherrod is a racist!

Thanks to Clio for accurate context.

[crim son]

21. I support your conclusion and you don't need a nap.

People are so goddamned nasty here. Thanks for daring to express your anger and despair; I get it.

[ProSense]

26. "People are so goddamned nasty here."

The spin and ridicule of the President is nasty here.

[TheWraith]

28. Yes, we're nasty towards falsehoods, propaganda, and anti-Dem smears. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. Thanks

Apparently, contributing money I'm hard pressed to afford and voting a straight ticket aren't good enough. I need to be a sycophant as well.

My gay teenage daughter thought about posting at DU until she read it for a while. When I asked her when I'd see her post something, she said she was afraid to because she didn't feel like most DU'ers supported her belief that she was 100% equal to them and deserving of EVERY legal, civil, and human right they are. She saw that right away.

[Clio the Leo]

39. No, you just need to not take things out of context....

... or twist words to mean what they dont.

That's Freeper behavior and you're not a Freeper ... you're a good liberal, so we expect more of ya. ;) (I may sound like I'm being flippant here, but I'm dead serious.)

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. I have one burning issue that concerns me above all else...

That's 100% unquestionable, unqualified, immediate equality for my gay teenage daughter. She is my first consideration in all things political since she came out to me.

She cannot believe that for two years we held the House, the Senate, and the White House and she's still a second class citizen or worse.

It was actually she who pointed out the comment to me today. I didn't watch the interview because I didn't think President Obama would say anything I'd not heard before.

Thanks for the olive branch and I'm sorry for ruffling so many feathers; I'm more than a little frustrated that a great opportunity might have been lost with the loss of the House majority.

[Clio the Leo]

45. That's understandable. We can be very protective of our children...

... and I'm sure it's very frustrating for her.

If you (two) have not already, I'd advise reading about the Civil Rights movement. It took a bit longer than two years for African Americans to achieve the equality they have today (which still is not where it ought to be.)

Unfortunately, it also took bloodshed. Something I PRAY does not have to happen for LGBT Americans to gain access to their civil rights. But I think some of us think that Dr. King staged a few marches and President Johnson waved his pen and bam! The Civil Rights Act of '64. It wasn't that simple. Freedom never is.

And there but for the grace of God go all of us in trying to enjoy that freedom...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Baptist_Church_bombing

[Bluenorthwest]

64. Our struggle is not just two years old, and there has been much

bloodshed. The modern gay rights movement was born in an uprising against constant police brutality. You need to do some study yourself if you think this way. Start with Bayard Rustin. Go from there.
This post of yours, it makes me very sad.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ampad]

63. Calling the president a liar

saying that he is dumb. This is what I do not understand about you haters. You can dish it out but you sure cannot take it. Cause once you get it back you cry victim. Must be tiring which is why most of you fail to read complete quotes anymore.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Meldread]

46. Do what I do.

Just consider anyone ever running for elected office - at any level of government - as a liar. They have one primary goal: to get elected. In order to achieve this goal they need two things: your money and your vote.

I determine which candidate I support based upon how I think they will further my agendas long term. During campaign season I attempt to either seek out or extract promises from them. Then when they are elected, I attempt to hold their feet to the fire - to make them fulfill the promises they made.

Thus, while they are all liars, they are useful tools in furthering an agenda. Even if you fail to get them to do what you want, the ensuing battle raises public awareness and gives a platform from which others can be persuaded over time... building momentum until the winds begin to shift in your favor. Alternatively, supporting a candidate can be based upon simply blocking another from taking the office.

It's foolish in my view to take anything anyone running for elected office says at face value. Even if they are genuine when they tell you something, after they're elected they're faced with the pressures of leadership which tug and pull them in many different directions - sometimes against their own ideals. It is easy to compromise on one agenda in order to further another.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. I want one thing above all else, and it's not for me.

I want 100% unquestioned and unqualified equality for my 18 year old Daughter, who happens by some quirk of the universe to be Gay. I don't want compromises. I don't want surveys. I don't want delays. I don't want excuses. I want my Daughter to be able to walk through every metaphoric door that's open to me 24/7 without being questioned or judged, while having every legal, civil, and human rights protection that Her hetero dad has by assumption.

What motivates me most times is the fact that my daughter, who will someday lose her biggest fan (me), will probably not in my lifetime be seen as equal in the eyes of the law and society to heterosexuals like me. When I'm gone, who will speak for her? Who will stand in front of the very persons She and I expect to be her biggest supporters and say I voted for you, what's the return?

A poster I respect very much posted in this thread that it took longer than two years for African Americans to achieve the equality that they have today. When I read that, it was like reading that African Americans have been part of humanity longer than gays, and so gays need to wait their turn.

She voted in her first election last week. She voted a straight ticket. She identifies with the Democratic Party. She wants to know... Is she in the right camp? How does it make us look that we haven't done things to this point that would make her snap her fingers and say "Uh Huh. This is the party for me?"

I will push, cajole, donate, ridicule, insult, and annoy until someone, ANYONE comes to the conclusion that politics aside, there is a very large group of American Citizens who do not now and have never enjoyed "equal protection" as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment to the Constition of the United States of America.

Bailouts, TARP, Insurance reform. That's what my Daughter sees as being more important than HER civil and human rights.

Barack Obama said that as a candidate it was okay to say things necessary to garner your vote before considering ways to implement them. WTF?

[jgraz]

66. Well then it's clear that you always hated the President and do everything you can to undermine him.

:sarcasm:

[ampad]

67. Much like the

desperate attacks in the how that pissing all over obama thread got. The swarm hit that one pretty well. Hit it fast as soon as the post was put up. Must of been a grain of truth in that one as well.

[saracat]

49. You don't need a break. You are a valued voice. It is just that in the wake of 2010, the Prez has

confirmed in his own words what many were excoriated for saying. He has admitted HCR was effectively "Romneycare and now admits he was "liberated" to make promises he had no way of implementing". If any of those who suspected this was true had made that statement, we would be swarmed but this is the president saying it about "himself". It is ironic that many on DU got and understood this President far better than the most fervent of the apologia.
It is always preferable to stand for Democratic principles than to offer blind support to any individual.But that is JMHO. And oddly, I would bet the President would agree.

[craigmatic]

50. Well duh. I saw that the president had this tendency when he promised to

do something or another back in 2008 when he had absolutely no reason to make such a promise. I think it had something to do with taxes. He would've won anyway. I think he gets carried away sometimes.

[tango-tee]

51. Amen! That wraps it up nicely:

"Fuck it; get their votes first, THEN figure out how you're going to placate them after the election is won."

[RichGirl]

54. Yes...please take a break...a long one.

If you read his books and paid any attention to President Obama's history, you would know he is the type of person who is used to getting things done. He has always taken on jobs and situations, many times not knowing how it would be done, but with the confidence that he could do it. His first job as community organizer...he saw the huge problems, had no idea how he was going to fix it, so he jumped in and and found a way. That's how life is. You don't go into anything knowing in advance exactly how you're going to do it.

Imagine interviewing people for a job...you tell them what their duties will be. Are you going to hire someone who is ready to tackle things they've never done before with confidence that they can achieve them. Or the person who says...Oh, I've never done that before, I don't know how I'm going to do it....

This is why people quit their jobs and most people change careers every five years and why the divorce rate is so high...because you can't possibly know what a job or any situation is going to be like or what it will require of you until you actually do it. And you can't know what the people around you will be like. Do you think that when Obama was making those promises that he knew that the republicans were going to put politics first in every situation and say "NO" to EVERYTHING!

Geez...what is it with some of you, do you stay up nights thinking of new ways to criticize the President. Why don't you just for a moment imagine how difficult and complicated it is to be POTUS...even more so if you are a Democrat and have not only the politicians to fight but the crazy nutcases.

So, yes, take a break and try to really face reality. You might notice that there is a lot more good than there is bad.

[lunatica]

55. Surely this isn't a big surprise to you

Politicians campaign based on what the voters want to hear. What's so hard to grasp about that? What else are they supposed to do when they want your vote? I don't see how anyone could miss that.

[BklnDem75]

58. Why did you leave out what Obama was responding to?

KROFT: Well, to a certain extent the Tea Party and some of the Republicans ran on the same message or much of the same message that you ran on two years ago. Which is, "We're gonna change Washington." And now, you are Washington.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well you know, that's one of the dangers of assuming power. And you know, when you're campaigning, I think you're liberated to say things without thinking about, "Okay, how am I gonna actually practically implement this."

Why do you assume he was referring to himself when he said this?

[prolesunited]

60. Because it fits the OP's narrative

as betrayer of the people.

[ampad]

65. Seriously

This should not be allowed here at DU from anyone no matter the point. If you are going to post a quote to prove a point please make sure you have the whole quote. If you have the entire quote please do not take it out of context. It should be a rule because IMO it is just like lying or spreading misinformation. I don't care who you are it just is not right. I am seeing more of more of it everyday and IMO it reeks of desperation.

[Ninga]

59. Our President made election promises. He won with a lot of support. He took that

support to Congress and was met with a Berlin Wall. He tried lunches, dinners, Super Bowl parties, and any other manner of reaching across the aisle as possible. Nada. Nothing but "we want to see this president fail at everything he tries GOP sez.

The next thing he was met with, was a well-televised tea-bagging movement. It was small, but full of photogenic off the wall characters.

The WH (Rahm Emmanual, with all of his years of experience) pooh-poohed the movement.

The WH forgot the netroots that stood shoulder to shoulder to Obama during the campaign. (Fuck'em sez Rahm)

Muddled in with all of the above was Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, Joe Lieberman, etc, etc, etc.

Time flys, things happen, stuff is hard to do. No war room at this WH to capture the GOP talking points and slaughter them....where were the barrage of surrogates TELLING THE PUBLIC AT LEAST 7 TIMES EACH about the accomplishments of this President? ** Crickets **

Yes, I voted for him, and will again, and think that with everything that has been thrown his way, he has done better than not.

What is important to me though, is how he intends to converse with the voting public in the next two years, and what kind of plan and effort will we see in the surrogates hitting the ground (or not).

[laughingliberal]

61. K & R nt

[Uzybone]

70. you missed it because you peddle falsehoods and spin

I thought it was mostly the rethugs who took quotes completely out of context.

[Skittles]

71. actually, cp

politicians always say crap when campaigning - it's up to you, the voter, to question what they're saying, figure out what is bullshit - and vote accordingly. I never bought what Obama campaigned on, not one bit.

[cherokeeprogressive]

80. I know that.

I'm getting more than a little tired of voting for the lesser of two evils.

[Steely_Dan]

72. Yep...This is why...

...politicians should never be role models.

[Autumn]

76. Don't let nothing or no one beat you down.

You have much to fight for and your fight is just.

[Number23]

77. Yawn.

:boring:

[cottonseed]

78. This isn't political. It's a personality defect. You're looking for something that's not there.

So, in the end, yes you should probably take a break from "all things political".

[cherokeeprogressive]

79. "You're looking for something that's not there." ZACTLY.

Finally someone gets it, sorta. Or not.

You don't want me take a break from all things political unless my vote, which is normally cast along straight party lines, isn't important to you, the party, or the country.

Zat what you really want? Are you really telling a loyal Democratic voter to sit it out just because of a difference of opinion? Or are you really telling me to sit down, shut the fuck up, and vote the way you want me to vote?

"This isn't political." Laughed... thought I'd die.