Let's just take a deep breath and stop jumping off the cliff over the tax cuts thing.

[RBInMaine]

Remember, this was a HUFFPO article with a bombastic headline based on an interview where something was "suggested." Remember too that HUFFPO is run by that oddball commentator Adrianna who used to be a right winger and has been blasting Obama since the day he took office. She's right up there with that oddball from Firedog Lake who got in bed with Grover Norquist. Again, their very loud headline is based on an interview with Axelrod who "suggested" a compromise. And it doesn't mean there would have to be PERMANENT cuts for the rich. As even THIS article says, the issue is over trying to de-couple the thing into two bills. That simply can not pass the congress, and there is tremendous time pressure to get this done so the middle class cuts don't run out. The best tactic for Obama and Dems to take is to agree to a short-term extension of both, say two to three years, but to hold firm on no 10-year extension for that top tier. THAT is the principle that needs to be stood for. If Obama and Dems hold tough on no PERMANENT extension and the R's still filibuster, then KABOOM, the R's look like the total and extreme assholes. Don't underestimate Obama's ability to play good chess here, once again. It is what it is. Agree to a compromise of a temporary extension, then let the PUKES filibuster that. Then THEY do that at THEIR peril. So let's just hold our powder here until this plays out. Like so many legislative matters, it is far from over. But no matter how you slice the bread, there WILL have to be compromise and on BOTH sides with this one.

[Name removed]

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[RBInMaine]

2. And if the middle class cuts aren't extended by Jan. he and Dems will be blamed. Face facts.

[Chan790]

18. I'd still rather see all the cuts expire than extend the top 2%.

Want facts faced? We can't afford these tax cuts. We need tax increases so we can balance the budget without cutting services. How do you like those facts?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[FSogol]

3. Well said. K & R. n/t

[peace13]

4. I agree!

People react to a suggestion by a staff member. Waste of energy!

[Cosmocat]

5. I love BO, and have STAUNCHLY defended him ...

from the wild eyed right AND left ...

But, what you suggested is not going to work ...

1) Politically - the left already feels jadded, right or wrong ... The moderate/pragmatists like myself have understood the compromises, like with HCR, but this is something that is uncompromisable to even moderates. This is THE line in the sand between republicans and democrats ... These friggen upper 5% tax cuts are responsible in almost totality for the deficit we face, and with which the right has and will CONTINUE to bludgeon this president with ... If he does not take this stand, THE fundamental difference between Ds and Rs, the class warfare that has shifted the burden on to US ... If he does not fight THIS battle, it WILL break him with the party ... This will be the anvil that breaks the camels back within his own party ...

2) It is EASY to fight this now ... You put the bill up for middle class extension minus the upper class extension, and let everyone get on the record with it ... If it fails, then you let them all expire ... It is simple, clear, and NOTHING THE RS CAN DO ABOUT IT ...

3)Your suggestion to extend them temporariliy, WTF, SERIOUSLY ... All that does is potentially give them the chance to get the senate and presidency to make them friggen permenent ... You can JUST LET THEM EXPIRE or extend them ??? There is not even a fricken choice to that ...

Sorry, this is THE battle ... It is the RIGHT thing, and it is winner politically ... Not having this battle now, and I have never said this or thought this, but to not have this battle now WILL make BO a one term president - and not for doing the right thing ...

[RBInMaine]

6. No, you're reading this one wrong. They can't de-couple the bill. Trust me, the best route is to

hold the line on a temporary extension. The R's will probably still say NO showing them to be ultra-extreme. If on the odd chance they do compromise, then they are fucking flamed by THEIR teabagger base which drives wedges that are already brewing there. If they go bagger and even say NO to a temporary extension, they are fucked with EVERYONE ELSE in the nation. If THEY cave on a temporary extension, we WIN because we called their bluff, held true to our basic principle, and won middle class tax cuts before the deadline. With a willingness to compromise on a temporary
extension we also get Collins and Snowe, and maybe a few other relatively moderate R's. I already know Collins and Snowe would back that route. A temporary extension but no further is the right way to go. We can't lose. Your idea is just too risky in this climate. Could bite us hard with the broad middle of the country.

[cascadiance]

10. The problem is we've already "compromised first" and look where it's got us.

The previous poster makes some very good points that one really needs to draw a line in the sand on this, and not allow wiggle room later for yet another compromise that takes us further to the precipice, which the Republicans will push us too in their traditional "no compromise" tactics. Then we'll be talking about whether we should do another extension and so forth. The greater deficits that will happen if we extend this tax cut (especially for the wealthy) over the next two years, will add fuel to the Republicans in the House to rationalize further cuts in government programs that will hit the middle class and the poor the hardest. So it might seem like the middle class and poor will be better off (with the tax cut that really doesn't give THEM a lot), but when measured against the other cuts that might happen as a result of the Republicans "paying the bills", they'll ultimately be hit harder then.

The problem is that they own the press, and whether we hold the line now or later, the press will always try to make it look like the Republicans are doing the right thing to the less informed. Those of us on the left, if we see that the Dems are *standing for something* for a change, and not bending to corporate contributor interests, will get more energized to have this president's and those in congress's back, which will I think help us in the long run. If what's remaining of the blue dogs try to fight us, that also can be made in to an issue and help us expand the power of the progressive caucuses in 2012 as well within the party.

We have limited time where we can stop a bill in the House by letting these expire if either decoupling or simply a clean bill for just those making less than $250k is passed. After that, we won't have that option for two years, and maybe not ever if the Republicans grab the Senate in 2012.

The only press we have that will try to help the Democrats do the right thing are the "troublemakers" that you mention (Ariana Huffington and Jane Hamsher), as well as other former Republican "troublemakers" like David Brock of Media Matters (who's being funded by another millionaire George Soros who we shouldn't trust?), or Thom Hartmann who used to campaign for Barry Goldwater as well. Perhaps we should focus our efforts on empowering these "troublemakers" over the corporate media that tries to shut them out, and that should be the focus instead of trying to argue that in some cases Democrats are going to get pushed aside and other times not (which won't happen unless they follow the corporate lobbies' agenda and spin).

Draw a line in the sand now I say!

[Cosmocat]

11. Dude ...

they Rs will scream and moan, but underneath GLADLY take "temporary" extension WITH the upper tax cuts, again, it buys them time and VERY LIKELY gets them the presidency and senate in two years to get them PERMANENT ...

Sorry, the only way to "win" here is to make the stand, the Rs will declare victory (with the MSM) on an extension of the top rates, still evicerate BO, and BO will have SERIOUSLY damaged his base ... Again, the lefties are barely hanging on, and this is a breaking point for moderates like myself ...

It makes ZERO sense to not let them expire in favor of a temporary extension ...

I am sorry, this is absolute folly ...

[RBInMaine]

12. No, not if it is a TEMPORARY extension. These baggers are all or nothing. They will filibuster if

they are not PERMANENT. And again, their teabagger base will flame them for "caving into Obama" if they don't get permanent tax cuts for the rich. Trust me dude. The R's are the ones in a fucking bind on this even IF Obama is willing to agree to a temporary extension only. He's playing good chess again with this.

[Cosmocat]

19. You are wrong, flat out ...

all due respect ...

when you have freddie kruger down in front off an oncoming train, you don't untie him and let him up and say you are going to get him back down in two years ...

you let the friggen train run him over ...

Sorry, it makes zero, ZERO sense to let them not expire ... There is NOTHING the Rs can do about it, and all your letting them extended do is let it possible for the lunatics to make them permenent if they make big gains in two years, and make no mistake, again, I have supported BO STRIDENTLY to this point on every issue - he loses the moderate democrats like me if he does not let them expire, and he loses the presidency ...

Sorry, you are wrong here, there is NO rationalizing not letting them expire ...

[kentuck]

20. They will do now what they wanted to do before the election...

since the price has already been paid.

[SidDithers]

8. K&R...nt

Sid

[DemocraticPilgrim]

13. I think our side does very much hyperactively react without any firm facts to go off. Sometimes...

we miss a whole architecture Pres. Obama has developed and never see the trajectory is toatlly in our favor. He gives a little to gain further down he line he can only play the cards we dealt him.

[Safetykitten]

14. I will just wait for the "did that just happen?" moment, after the cave in.

[ProSense]

15. What

do you consider "the cave in"?

[savalez]

16. Treat EVERYTHING HuffPo posts as Tabloid journalism

and you'll be happier for it. As a tabloid they must load their content with hyperbole to get the highest reader reaction - often at the expense of the simple truth. Why do they do that? What do they care? It's quantity over quality. More readers equals more money.

[apocalypsehow]

17. Kick, Rec. n/t.

[FrenchieCat]

21. They want to jump off the cliff.....

They ain't got shit else to do! :shrug:

[ibegurpard]

22. no let's not

this is standard operating procedure for this administration.
Keep floating unacceptable trail balloons and then giving in at the last minute regardless of how much pushback they get.

[Name removed]

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[jberryhill]

24. "You are weak and pathetic, much like the party you adore."

I'm glad I'm not a member of a party of people who speak to others the way you do.