The White House disputes HuffPo tax cut cave in story. Do you guys want HuffPo to be right?

[wndycty]

Poll question: The White House disputes HuffPo tax cut cave in story. Do you guys want HuffPo to be right?

It seems that there is an element of DU who wants to believe every blog, column, article, etc. that makes it look like Obama is selling out Democrats/his progressive base.

Before the White House can respond, before any other media outlet gives the story any credence DUers rush in and complain about the caving, the spinelessness, the disappointment, etc. almost celebrating the fact that Obama has let them down yet again. EVEN IF HE DIDN'T

When the HuffPo writes that the White House is considering a compromise on tax cuts, we should all be concerned, but concerned enough to pick up the phone and call our Congressman, drop the White House an e-mail, do what you can to make sure that the White House and Congress will hold the line, instead many of you immediately throw in the towel and go right into the "Obama sold us out, he is an effective leader" mode.

Now that the White House has pushed back on the story some DUers appear to still want it to be true.

So here here is the question. Do DUers believe the White House pushback on the tax cut story? If not, why?

[msongs]

1. we will see what action occurs as talk is useless nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. Except when it supports your POV. then talk is golden

"Your" referring to people in general

[vi5]

3. No, I don't personally want it to be right...

But if it does come to pass, I would like to see people who seem to spin endlessly that anything like somehow isn't a cave in or a buckling, or that "Well there's nothing else he could do, etc.". Because none of that applies here.

I agree that like with the deficit commission, it doesn't make sense to get riled up in advance. But if anything comes to pass negatively because of that commission, and if Obama doesn't veto the tax cuts for the wealthy, and people still spin it as somehow not his own doing or forces beyond his control then......well then nothing I guess. Except that it's clear that nothing he does or doesn't do will cause them to get upset or stop making excuses. But the fact is that it was 100% his doing to set up this commission, and the power of a veto (assuming it doesn't get enough votes for a veto proff majority) over the tax cuts for the wealthy are 100% in his control.

[dave29]

24. so, if the deficit commission comes up with ways to cut the defecit

you will be angry,

Check.


The White House signals it is willing to compromise, but refutes it wants to extend the Bush tax cuts, but you will be angry regardless of what happens since any compromise is bad.

Check.

[vi5]

33. No, I didn't say any of that......

First off I said I would wait and see on both. Isn't that what the spinning crowd wants and tells us? "It's ridiculous to get riled up over rumors and leaks!!" Fine, I agree. I'll wait and see before I start criticizing and frothing. THATS what I said on both counts.

If the deficit commission comes up with ways to cut the deficit that include democratic ideas such as raising taxes on the wealthy, cutting wasteful military spending while preserving Social Security and Medicare and other things important to core democratic principles then I have no issue with that. But if it's even 50% of the garbage that was put forth in yesterdays lean then no I won't support it and I won't support any politician that supports those kind of heavily Republican tilted actions. I think it was ridiculous to put the commission together in the first place, but he did it and that's fine. And if there are good suggestions that come out of it without sacrificing too much for the Democrats and not enough for the Republicans then sure.

And extending the middle class tax cuts while letting the upper ones expire is already a compromise and one which I support. And extending the upper class ones temporarily is an even bigger compromise. I'll still think it sucks and I'll add it to the pile of dissapointments, but I'll live with it.

But if what you're asking is if I'll find some way to support and justify no matter what happens, then no. The answer is I won't. I'm sure you'll sleep just fine with that and so will I and it's quite obvious so will the President.

[OHdem10]

4. We will have GOP winning most issues. Obama can count

How many DLC Blue Dogs will vote with the GOP.

Obama knows he does not have the votes.

[vi5]

6. Will they have a veto proff majority?

If they do then you're correc that he obviously has no choice and it's completely out of his control.

But if it's not a veto proof majority then that's that. He can choose to let it pass or he can take a stand. But without a veto proof majority, it becomes 100% his decision.

[FormerDittoHead]

40. He'll make the House jump through flaming hoops like Bush did 2006-2008!...

...or he'll cave in and offer a bunch of "hot potato" excuses...

I'm betting the latter.

[RockaFowler]

5. It doesn't matter

There are at least 10 different OP's regarding the President and the White house caving on Tax Cuts. I guess people don't read the other threads before posting their own.

[Umbral]

7. I expect, in the end, the 'Bush Tax Cuts' will be preserved. What I want doesn't fucking matter. nt

[Exilednight]

8. The WH didn't really push back, they just explained their caveat .............

UPDATE: White House denies giving in on Bush tax cuts: The White House is sharply denying the Huffington Post story I noted below claiming that David Axelrod signaled a willingness to accept a temporary extension of all the Bush tax cuts, claiming that their position remains unchanged.

Axelrod emails:

There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

Someone needs to explain to this administration that we can't afford temporary extensions of the tax cuts for the wealthy, either.

If you're going to put forward a question, then give the people ALL the facts.

Now, as far as the rest of your question: I don't want the the HuffPo story to true about compromising on tax cuts, it's against our national interest to capitulate and make the rich even richer. The tax cuts have been in place for ten years, and they've failed to produce jobs.

[ProSense]

9. No, the WH

did push back, but you're trying to validate HuffPo's spin.

Greg Sargent:

Axelrod emails:

There is not one bit of news here. I simply re-stated what POTUS and Robert have been saying. Our two strong principles are that we need to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, but we can't afford a permanent extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

And White House comm director Dan Pfeiffer adds:

The story is overwritten. Nothing has changed from what the President said last week. We believe we need to extend the middle class tax cuts, we cannot afford to borrow 700 billion to pay for extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and we are open to compromise and are looking forward to talking to the Congressional leadership next week to discuss how to move forward. Full Stop, period, end of sentence.

[wndycty]

10. Exactly, there is a contingent here on DU that WANTS to be disappointed in Obama

And they will take every comment, blog post, etc. and go into convulsions.

[treestar]

17. And go out to research court cases (which they don't understand)

and commissions and other things generally obscure to the US citizen in general.

And is there such scrutiny on other commissions or court cases that are positive for them? No.

[Exilednight]

29. Still playing that same song?

You ran away from your last thread after stereotyping anyone who criticizes Obama's policy.

[wndycty]

32. Yup and I might play it a few more times so that more people know that song. . .

:kick:

[Exilednight]

39. Sadly, like most songs, it's all based in fantasy. n/t

[Lord Magus]

52. Probably playing it because it's true.

At least in your case.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. This is exactly what they did with healthcare.

Walking back their principles without any apparent reason, until the starting point is now at the Republicans goal posts.

[wndycty]

13. "walking back their principles" got 30 million more people health care, got rid of pre-existing ...

. . .conditions, got rid of lifetime caps. Go a lot done. But go ahead sit in the corner and pout.

[treestar]

18. The all or nothing crowd even claims they will be fine with

their taxes to go up, so long as the rich don't get even a temporary tax cut!

and that we would keep any majority or the WH is we let that happen to the independents.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Taxes *should* go up.

Extending tax cuts for the wealthiest isn't compromise, it's capitulation.

Pass a bill of tax cuts for 95% of the population and force Republicans to filibuster it. If the bill fails, it won't hurt the economy any worse than every other moronic thing the repubs are going to propose.

Republicans are the problem with our economy. Once you realize that you understand that the politics required to get rid of them is warranted.

[dave29]

26. get rid of Republicans?

good luck! We're too busy fighting amongst ourselves because everyone seems to know how to Govern around here

[treestar]

36. The Repubs can then run on

"Obama and the Democrats raised taxes."

Americans want something for nothing.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. But they didn't.

Republicans did by voting against tax cuts.

[Lord Magus]

53. And Democrats can run on the fact that it was Republcians who voted to raise taxes.

That would, of course, require Democrats to actually campaign effectively, which seems to be a rarity these days. But it would be a strong position to campaign from.

[Exilednight]

31. 30 million more people health care, you say? Let's take a look at the ............

facts.

Over 59 million Americans lacked health insurance for some part of 2010, a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention finds—a 4 million-person increase from 2008. The study examined 90,000 people from over 35,000 households across the country and found that the number of uninsured had steadily increased over the past two years, as did the number of people who had gone more than a year without coverage. While the number of children without insurance dropped five percent between 2008 and 2009, "both adults and kids lost private coverage over the past decade," said Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Frieden added that the study also exploded two myths about health care: that only poor or healthy people lack insurance. "In fact, half of the uninsured are over the poverty level and one in three adults under 65 in the middle income range," Freiden said of wealth, and about health, "more than two out of five individuals who are uninsured at some point during the past year had one or more chronic diseases." The report is expected to invigorate debate about health care reform, which some key Republicans, including Republican House Speaker in waiting John Boehner, have pledged to repeal. However, while a full repeal would prove difficult—Ezra Klein goes into why on his blog this morning—others have promised to pursue althernate tactics, such as defunding key reforms.


http://slatest.slate.com/id/2274380/

So, you claim that 30 million more people have health care, but the CDC says we hit a record high in 2010 with 59.1 million people without health insurance.

Let me see, who shall I believe, you (who are seldom correct) or the CDC?

I think I'll go with the CDC.

[dave29]

25. I can't believe how many people here hate that there will be so many more people

able to receive health care that could not before. It's disgusting.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. I'm glad that a health care bill passed.

But don't kid yourself. It's a Republican bill. The ham-handedness with which the Democrats passed it made Republicans realize that they could get more.

[marlakay]

12. The reason i said no is because they have done

nothing but cave cave cave cave to the right...when they stop caving I will believe them and not before!

[SidDithers]

14. K&R...nt

Sid

[Gold Metal Flake]

42. Unrec...nt

[treestar]

15. You got some yes votes, that says it all right there

This caving thing is something the Republicans are trying to sell us. THEY wouldn't cave. Of course not. They are so virtuous. the strong leader crap, too. It's natural if you want a strong leader to follow instead of having to do anything to support things yourself, then you can just become a Republicans.

[muffin1]

21. It says something, alright.

But I'm sure I must be wrong. There is no way that someone would anonymously skew an online poll to make someone else look bad.

[jonnyblitz]

30. it says that people like to intentionally mess with STUPID polls. nt

[Phx_Dem]

16. Of course they dispute it, because it's more Huffington bullshit. n/t

[muffin1]

19. No one WANTS it to be true.

That is an utterly ridiculous assertion. Let's just say I wouldn't be all that SURPRISED to see President Obama cave in to the repukes on this. We'll all know soon enough.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. There is nothing to "believe" one way or another.

The WH does not deny any factual assertion in the story. They "deny" that the story is newsworthy and "deny" that the characterization of them giving in is fair.

They don't like how the story comes off (and I tend to agree with them on that) but do not dispute that they are open to some extension of the $250K+ cuts.

So what's the dispute?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Parker CA]

28. The pessimism and negativity runs strong in many here. It's pretty sad and defeatist IMO.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muffin1]

34. Weak "black" spine...

give it a rest already. :eyes:

[impik]

46. Why? It's hard for you to deal with the growing evident of

Racism among the "enlighten" left?

[muffin1]

49. I truly haven't seen this growing evidence.

Sure, from time to time there are trolls who try that shit, and they are smacked down in short order. But I haven't seen it among the regular members here, and I am pretty sensitive to 'dog whistles'. I know what teabaggers and people like Hannity are saying when they use terms like 'Chicago-style' politics, or when they allude to the 'thugs' in the Obama administration. I know EXACTLY what Palin was saying when she said 'he's not one of us'.

If you can show me some examples of this occurring with regular DU members, I will certainly tell you that you are right - and be mortified, as well. Feel free to send me links via a PM, since I think posting them here would be a rule violation.

[bigwillq]

35. No (nt)

[dsc]

37. It isn't what I want or don't want

it is what is true. Sadly I think that Axelrod's comments are likely a trial balloon. I sincerely hope that belief is wrong but the evidence leads me to believe that we are seeing a trial balloon.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. Add a couple of options: (1) More information/clarification needed; and (2)

Don't know.

I must say, however, that I am beginning to hate the Huffington Post with their horrible reporting.

[stranger81]

41. I don't WANT to believe the administration is selling us out. But I wasn't born yesterday, either.

Wanting has nothing to do with it. Would I LIKE to believe that Santa Claus is real? Sure. Do I? No.

[ClarkUSA]

43. Any news is spun as OUTRAGE. Perpetual Whining is a vocation for those who have an axe to grind.

Who cares about them?

A huge majority of self-described liberals have always supported President Obama and they always will.

[jenmito]

44. MSNBC has been reporting this all through the day-as fact-the "liberal" media at work.

And I'm sure Ed Schultz will yell about it, too. :eyes:

[jenmito]

45. Adam Green of the PCCC is on MSNBC (with Cenk hosting) and he just repeated the lie! He

said that the Huffington Post and CNN are reporting that "the President is prepared to cave on taking on Bush Bush's tax cuts for the top 1%. That would be $700 billion." And on and on it goes... :eyes:

[wndycty]

47. Yup because they wanted to believe the worst, too many progressives want to believe the worst ...

. . .about Obama.

[jenmito]

48. Yup. I got an email from the PCCC asking me to sign a petition to stop Obama from

permanently extending the tax cuts for the top 1%. It was the last straw. I unsubscribed.

[harun]

54. We remember their methodology during the Health Care debate. Don't need HuffPo to tell us

anything.

[Caretha]

55. What a stupid poll

So when are you going to quit beating your wife?