Obama May Deny KSM a Trial; Give Up on Closing Gitmo

[de novo]

By Raw Story
Saturday, November 13th, 2010

President Barack Obama will have the final word on whether Khalid Sheikh Mohammed will be given a trial or whether the man dubbed the "mastermind" of the 9/11 attacks will remain imprisoned without trial indefinitely, the Washington Post reports.

Peter Finn and Anne Kornblut write that conservative opposition to a civilian trial in Manhattan and liberal opposition to a military tribunal are prompting the administration to consider simply not trying Mohammed at all.

The administration has concluded that it cannot put Mohammed on trial in federal court because of the opposition of lawmakers in Congress and in New York. There is also little internal support for resurrecting a military prosecution at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The latter option would alienate liberal supporters.

The administration asserts that it can hold Mohammed and other al-Qaeda operatives under the laws of war, a principle that has been upheld by the courts when Guantanamo Bay detainees have challenged their detention.

The Post adds that the White House "has made it clear that President Obama will ultimately make the decision." If a trial does happen, it won't be before the next presidential election. And even then a trial would require "a different political environment.

(...)

Administration officials also think that they will probably not secure the funding and legal authority from Congress to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay and transfer any remaining detainees to the United States. There are 174 detainees at Guantanamo Bay, down from 241 when Obama took office. Diplomatic efforts continue to reduce that number through the resettlement or repatriation of detainees cleared for transfer by an interagency task force.

But, one official said, "Gitmo is going to remain open for the foreseeable future."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/obama-deny-ksm-trial-report/

[SidDithers]

1. Unrec...nt

Sid

[de novo]

2. Why?

[emilyg]

26. Why? It's Sid.

[pnorman]

28. UN-recommend too!

Because I'm "pnorman"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x520910

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4612741&mesg_id=4613097

[vi5]

3. Wait I'm confused...Gitmo is still open?

I thought that was on that wonderful list of accomplishments that people love to post on here (although thankfully less and less frequently).

Of was that just one of those accomplishments that began with "Committed to...." or "Pledged to......" which to a lot of people on here is more than enough to wear their hands raw from clapping.

[de novo]

4. Yep. Gitmo is open and will stay open, and the Obama Administration

claims the power to detain indefinitely, even without charges. Nothing to cheer for here.

[ClarkUSA]

5. "Congress won't pay to close Gitmo, says Boehner."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicolive/0310/Boehner_on_Gitmo.html?showall

Blame the GOP unless you're looking to scapegoat President Obama, which some people are all too glad to do.

[de novo]

6. The Democrats had two years and failed to do it.

I blame them all. The President realized the political realities while he was campaigning, don't you think?

[ClarkUSA]

7. If Congress won't appropriate monies, the President has no choice, does he?

[de novo]

8. Who is the leader of the Democratic Party?

Who ran on closing Gitmo, knowing full well of the difficulties of moving legislation though Congress?

[ClarkUSA]

11. Why are you so intent on blaming President Obama for GOP stonewalling on this issue?

[de novo]

12. He is the President, his party held both houses for two years, he campaigned on it.

Why are you so intent on denying that he failed?

Because he did. That point really isn't debatable.

[ClarkUSA]

14. GOP stonewalling via the Appropriations Committee is to blame for Gitmo not closing, not Pres. Obama

Those who want to scapegoat President Obama are ignoring how the levers of government work.

[de novo]

15. He failed. You can offer excuses, but this is a failure.

Democrats held the power, and they failed.

[ClarkUSA]

16. lol! Scapegoating President Obama seems to be a pastime for some people, it seems.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in blame games that falsely target President Obama and Democrats while ignoring the culpability of Republican obstructionism.

[de novo]

17. The gop absolutely holds some blame, but then again, they never

campaigned on it. It isn't about scapegoating. It is about acknowledging that the atrocities started under the 'war on terror' are continuing. They are wrong under repub administrations, they are wrong under Democratic Administrations. They are wrong and should be ended.

BTW, thanks for all the kicks, you helped get the recs into positives.:hi:

[ClarkUSA]

20. What does campaigning on it have to do with anything that happens in Congress?

It's comical that anyone would blame a candidate for his aspirations.

[de novo]

22. Here's the thing. The actual physical detention center isn't what matters.

What matters is the individuals being held inside, without charge. I could care less if Gitmo remained open, but empty. What we need is a commitment to civil rights and the Constitution, which is what we were sold with Candidate Obama. We need to have trials for ALL the detainees. If found guilty, they can be sentenced and held, with no problem. If the evidence isn't there, they need to be released to their home country. If the evidence is tainted through tortured means, we must follow that trail.

It is the failing to maintain justice that is so wrong. I don't blame Obama for his aspirations, I blame him for his unwillingness to do the right thing.

[jonnyblitz]

9. yeah the poor, powerless , timid little man has no choice at all.

*squeak* :sarcasm:

[de novo]

13. I have never understood how pointing to someone's ineffectiveness

is anything other than a very weak argument.

[ClarkUSA]

18. Tell me how Pres. Obama can close Gitmo when Congress refuses to fund it.

[de novo]

19. Order and allow trials for ALL the remaining detainees.

[ClarkUSA]

21. Um, I asked the poster who was ridiculing Obama. You're not answering my question, anyway.

It's easy to cast blame when one has zero responsibility for governing.

[de novo]

23. I answered your question. Initiate trials for ALL the detainees and

convict or release them. Case closed.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Democrats wouldn't pay to do it, either

Harry Reid was just about as adamantly opposed to this a year and a half ago as John Boehner is opposed to it now. Nobody wants a "terrorist prison" in their district or state.

[Exilednight]

39. And all the president had to do was veto any bill that financed Gitmo. The Veto pen can be a ......

powerful weapon. Too bad Obama is afraid to use it.

[Catherina]

41. You beat me to it. That list of accomplishments is pure BS. Thank you. n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. There is a difference IMHO

about whether the Administration does not see any conceivable way to close Gitmo and whether or not they WANT to close Gitmo. I see no backtracking here (or elsewhere) or anything that suggests that Obama WANTS Gitmo to remain open but until they have the necessary public support (and funding) to do so, then they can't AFAIK. :shrug:

Realistically, it ain't going to happen during the next two years, unfortunately, unless Obama finds another way around it. Hopefully, they are working on some possible contingencies but until or unless Congress stops wetting its pants (and making Americans stop wetting their collective pants) about the terrorists being locked up in Supermax prisons that are quite capable of holding people whom are just as (if not more) dangerous than they are, then I don't know what can realistically happen.

For anybody whom didn't vote this year and/or plans NOT to vote in 2012, just remember that elections (STILL) have consequences.

[Pamelita]

29. Agree

There is much opposition to the civilian trial, although I agree with a civilian trial. Perhaps Obama has no choice but to go on with the military trial.

[de novo]

30. There are many, though, that Obama, the DoJ and th DoD say will never

have a trial of any kind, yet be held for life. Held forever with no charge, no trial. It is the act of detention that is so heinous, rather than location or facility.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

31. We've tried other terrorists before

I don't know what makes these guys so g-d SCARY that it's too hard to try them in a civilian court. I mean, we prosecuted the people whom conspired to bomb the WTC in 1993 successfully and without anywhere near this much outrage and anger (if any). Prior to 9/11 and the "Bush Terrorism Doctrine", there was never any question about trying terrorist suspects in civilian courts. Unfortunately, the Republicans still seem to be able to successfully demagogue the issue of terrorism, so much so that it's now at the point where a majority of people apparently believe that these terrorists are superhuman geniuses whom have a terrorist cell or sympathizers with a getaway car around every corner and that having a civilian trial is going to incite new terrorist attacks despite the fact that, as is proven again and again, we are all still in the crosshairs of Al-Queda and their sympathizers and will be no matter how we end up trying them. Heck, if we're going to follow the logic that trying these guys in open court is going to incite terrorist attacks against us, then how is it going to make them feel when we decide to detain them indefinitely and/or try them in military tribunals? I daresay that because of how Bush (mis-)handled our reaction to 9/11, our collective mindset and approach to dealing with terrorism in a rational constructive manner has all but been lost in favor of this pre-emptive retributive "justice" mindset that has no basis in our laws. :puke:

[juajen]

43. FWIW, my theory is that some facts will ooze out that the PTB

don't want leaked. Some of those guys probably never should have been there, and we are not to know what our government does not want us to know.

[Exilednight]

40. Here's away around it ............

Stop funding it. Obama has this wonderful tool called the veto. Anytime congress sends a bill up with financing to keep gitmo open, veto it. Eventually it will come down to a stalemate and as long as the president doesn't blink he will get his way.

He needs to stop running for re-election and take a stand and begin to govern.

[Kdillard]

25. Not surprising when the chickens in Congress refuse to fund it. Hopefully

he can find another way to get it done.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sally cat]

32. Back to KSM possibly being imprisoned without trial indefinitely: no opinions?

What's wrong with a military tribunal if the admin wants him held under the laws of war anyway? I'm not getting it.

[de novo]

34. That is my biggest rub. All the detainees need their day in court.

I would prefer civilian trials, but if military tribunals are the only way, we need to do it.

[sally cat]

35. The silence here on that part of your OP is weird. Indefinite detention! That's Bushian.

[de novo]

36. And, it should be noted that the most adamant defender in this thread

fell silent when pressed on that issue. Twice.

[soryang]

33. Can't open the torture door to subpoena power

The Moussaui trial revealed many facts embarrassing to the federal government. A trial of KSM will be much worse. The political objections are just a method to keep the torture evidence from coming out.

[BlueIris]

37. Losers.

I'm not shocked, but come on. This is disgusting. This will be a permanent stain on the history of our country.

[de novo]

38. Not just a stain, but a precedent. As a lawyer for one detainee told me (paraphrasing):

It is much easy to go from 50 indefinite detainees to thousands than it is to go from 50 to zero.

[sally cat]

42. KSM is headed down the memory hole.

[BetsysGhost]

44. Good Idea, hold him under the Laws of War

that way the Geneva Conventions will be applicable. And if Geneva becomes applicable, the next step will have to be War Crimes Prosecutions.

Problem solved Sir!