President Obama is a total failure.

[JamesA1102]

He hasn't been able to fix systemic problems in our government that go back 50 years.
He hasn't been able to repair the damage to our economy that started 30 years ago under Reagan.
He hasn't yet ushered in a liberal utopia even though he faced an unprecedented level of obstruction from the GOP and constant demonization from their allies in the media.
And he's had a whole 22 months to do it.
All he has done is:
- Prevent a second great depression.
- Pass the biggest financial reform since the 1930s.
- Pass the biggest reform of healthcare ever.
- Preside over the most productive and progressive congress in over 40 years.
But he's had less than 2 years and hasn't solve every problem on the planet yet so he must be a failure.

[TheWraith]

1. Some DUers won't see the sarcasm.

Kicked and recommended anyway. :)

[bjobotts]

100. Start off with sarcasm end up with disgust.Suddenly being informative is tasteless

[CitizenLeft]

2. I totally agree.

What a loser! :)

[vi5]

3. Did he do those things or didn't he?

Because whenever anyone makes perfectly valid points about the multitude of ways that much of what was passed is either really bad, or at best a band-aid with still enough loopholes for the current institutional powers and their teams of lawyers and accountants to drive twenty mack trucks wide through then the excuse given is that "IT WAS THE SENATE/HOUSE AND HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THAT!!!! DON'T YOU KNOW HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS??!?!?! YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO MIDDLE SCHOOL CIVICS CLASS!!!!"

So which is it? He can't get credit for the good parts, but then not share the blame for a lot of the ways that those things are bad and will continue to make the problems worse or simply mask them for a short period of time.

If he (and the handful of people who keep posting this same talking point) wants to keep his hands clean from the bad stuff, then fine. But then to claim that we should all be heaping praise on him for these same wonderful accomplishments is inconsistent at best.

[demwing]

5. + 1000001 /nt

[JamesA1102]

20. So you're arguement is to make the perfect the enemy of the good. nt

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JamesA1102]

22. How snarky of you.

Guess you have to resort to that when you don't have a logical or reasonable argument to make.

[vi5]

24. I made my argument......

You disagreed. Nothing more to say. I wish you the best of luck turning the Democratic party into a cult of personality. I'm sure when that transition is complete they will do just fine with my absence.

[JamesA1102]

31. If you made your argument and there is nothing more to say

why do you keep posting?

[vi5]

45. Because you're far too captivating to ignore.

Clearly the depth and intelligence of your positions and your writing engages me in a way that few others do. I can't turn away.

[JamesA1102]

49. Flattery will get you no where nt

[LawnLover]

108. That's what it sounds like to me. nt.

[shraby]

35. You do realize that a President, Governor, Mayor,..take your

pick, only propose, the Congress, State Legislature, the Town Councils dispose. Anything different and you are getting into Dictator territory.

[vi5]

46. And that's fine.....

But my point is that they get the good with the bad. They don't get to blame the bad on all the "do nothings" and "obstructionists" in Congress but then cave in to them and not share the blame. They don't get to take credit for all the good stuff but not get some of the blame for the bad stuff, which is what seems to be wanted by many on here.

[HERVEPA]

99. They propose, but they also use influence, cajoling, threats,

whatever to get things done, not give away things before negotiations start, with people who aren't interesting in negotiating anyhow.

I'd like one good reason what his justice department is fighting the courts getting rid of DADT. There is none!

[BrklynLiberal]

65. yep.

[progressoid]

88. +1000002

[obxhead]

103. The double standard here is hilarious.

Anything good, rah rah Obama.

Anything bad, it's those nasty fuckers in Congress not Obama!

[earthside]

4. Hmm.

Sarcasm or not, much remains to be seen.

All he has done is:

- Prevent a second great depression. -- That remains to be seen; we may very well be in for the biggest crash of all because of the foreclosure-gate scandal.

- Pass the biggest financial reform since the 1930s. -- But whether it will be effectively enforced by the Obama administration remains to be seen.

- Pass the biggest reform of healthcare ever. -- Yup, a guaranteed 50 million new customers for the insurance corporations and no cost controls: some reform.

[Donnachaidh]

13. [phone] n/t

[Schema Thing]

26. why did you lie and say "no cost controls"?

[earthside]

51. You'll understand ....

.... once you receive your insurance premium increase notice for next year.

[Schema Thing]

52. There are strong price controls in the legislation. Deal with it.

[Jakes Progress]

59. There are suggestions and percentage guidelines.

Things the industry has already shown deft ability to overcome. There are not price controls, but rather price influences. Our main disagreement would be on the definition of the word strong. A strong price control would be one that wouldn't let prices go up for consumers.

(Oh. And don't confuse price controls with cost controls as many have done with this argument. What cost controls there are will somewhat adversely affect the price.)

[daleanime]

95. Deserves a post of it's own.

:applause:

[rug]

6. Don't forget how well he's handling Afghanistan.

[JoePhilly]

25. He is doing in Afganistan EXACTLY what he said he will do ...

I guess you can complain about that ... but he is doing what he said he would do.

Same in Iraq.

McCain would have increased troops in Iraq, allowed Afghanistan to meander (no attention), and he'd have been ramping up the Iran war that the GOP wants.

Don't forget that either.

[rug]

36. Please point out his campaign promise to bomb civilian populations with drones

three times a day for a solid month.

BTW, McCain is not President. You should update that with, "How would you like President Palin?"

[JoePhilly]

110. Hate to break thw news to you, but as a candidate, Obama said he

was going to ESCALATE the war in Afghanistan. Drones are part of the weapon set he has, and he is using them.

Again, this should not be a surprise to anyone.

As for Palin as President ... while I doubt she could ever win, it is useful to consider the 2000 election. The reality is that the outcome of elections matters.

In 2000, disgruntled dems didn't vote for Gore ... Bush "wins" and we get 9/11, 2 wars, tax cuts we can't afford, and 2 new supreme court justices who recently decided that corporations should be able to PURCHASE elections anonymously.

So yes ... since you mention her ... let's let Palin be President in 2012 ... after all, what could go wrong ... other than things we could not imagine, just as we did not imagine such terrible things in 2000.

[liberal N proud]

7. If one listens to the propaganda we call the media he hasn't done anything

But then again, they are part of the right wing machine whose focus for the next two years will be to destroy Obama.

[Doctor_J]

8. I unrec all of these vanity threads

looks like it was posted for the sole purpose of garnering rec's.

These "talking points" have been posted in at least 50 different OP's.

[ProSense]

9. Wait

"looks like it was posted for the sole purpose of garnering rec's."

Is that not true of the "primary Obama" or "Obama is weak" threads?


These "talking points" have been posted in at least 50 different OP's.

Is primary Obama a "talking point"?

[Skittles]

10. here's the problem

no one denies he had hideously great tasks to perform.....and that he did a lot....what's in question is the PRIORTY / DIRECTION / SUBSTANCE of the tasks he did undertake - why can't so many DUers understand that??? It makes you/DU look so fucking foolish.

[Raine]

15. EXACTLY

Yes he had a mess when he took office but the direction he has taken since then is NOT what I voted for.

[LawnLover]

109. See, I never get why people say this, because

to my mind, he's trying to do what he promised during the primary. Maybe you weren't listening or you only heard what you wanted to hear, but it seems to me he's pretty much following the path he said he'd follow. Maybe not as quickly as I'd like, but I understand the realities of Washington.

[JamesA1102]

119. Congratulations!

You're one of the few around here who gets it!

[JamesA1102]

32. No the problem is that too many don't really know or care

what has been accomplished. Everyone has their little pet issue and unless they get 100% of what they want on that, then the President and democrats are sellouts. The problem is that there are too many who rather pound their chests in self-rightous indignation shouting, "We've been betrayed" than acknowledge the real progress that has been made.

[Skittles]

37. you don't get it

you JUST.DO.NOT.GET.IT. Not even worth my time.

[JamesA1102]

39. I get it.

You just can't make the argument to refute it.

[Skittles]

121. ridiculous

I ALREADY DID - get some READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS

[JamesA1102]

123. I love who you resort to insults

when you can't make a factual argument.

[eridani]

44. People who aren't political junkies like us would know if there had been real effects on their lives

We all know that stuff, and we also that it doesn't matter to the general public that much of it prevented further economic devastation. What they know is that foreclosures are up, bankruptcies are up, long term unemployment is up and 2 million unemployed people are going to lose their only source of income by January.

[RaleighNCDUer]

77. IOW

Hey you gays! Shut up and sit down!

You know, it does go a little deeper than that.

[AllTooEasy]

70. Unfortunately, there were so many problems and every Liberal had a different priority

Some wanted Jobs to be the firt prioriy

Some wanted DADT repeal to be his first priority

Some wanted healthcare to be the top priority

Some wanted Deficit control

Iraq pullout

Afghanistan pullout

Bush tried for war crimes.

and so on...

It's understandable. Bush pissed off everybody for every reason and we all wanted some immediate relief in some way. Every liberal group he set to satisfy, all other liberals complained that they were being neglected. Maybe they were, but that's why they call it an executive decision.

[Whisp]

11. do you really have to word it that way for the outside thread title?

we have enough shit like that here littering the place. I know you are being sarcastic but think as you are adding just another bit of slime to the already overflowing buckets of nausea. Lots just scan the titles and don't look in.

but who gives a fuck anyway.

[grahamhgreen]

12. He hasn't been able to close GITMO, or end the horrific wars (those would take 2 phone calls)

HCR is an big insurance give-away.

The banks should have been foreclosed on and the managers never allowed to practice finance again.

[slay]

17. +1

sorry to those who still mistakenly misplace their faith in Obama - but you are exactly right. he's been a huge disappointment to me and many, many, many other liberals - and not just liberals but people who realize that we need REAL change, systemic change, and it is glaringly obvious that he is just not the guy to do it. in regards to the OP - Obama is president NOW - yes there have always been problems but he is in position to make substantive change - but for some odd reason refuses to lead boldly. It cost him the house, and it may well cost him the presidency in 2012.

[immoderate]

29. He has done nothing unapproved by the plutocracy.

The congress won't let him? How convenient.

HCR was written by the pharma and HC companies.

Spying and eavesdropping continues. Faith-based whatever? Patriot Act? Don Siegelman cleared yet? Rendition? Guantanamo? Selling off (out) the schools? Busting unions?

It's all choreographed so it's just out of reach.

--imm

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

55. Today's court decision illuminates exactly why Gitmo is still open.

And HCR is not a big insurance give away, despite all your attempts to say otherwise. And finally, TARP was passed under Bush, not Obama, and frankly, there's not an economist alive that would agree that those banks should have been closed. So, you're wrong on all three counts. Care to try again?

[impik]

14. But Soros is going to invest in someone else. He should go for Michael Moore. Now that's a president...

[craigmatic]

16. Nobody has call him a failure. The main complaint is that he gives in too easy to the repigs.

[dionysus]

18. actually many people have,daily.

[RaleighNCDUer]

80. Not succeeding is not precisely the same as failing.

He has done the best he could do while pursuing a failing strategy. He expects the other side to be reasonable and rational, and can be compromised with.

He's wrong.

He may be a great chess player, but it doesn't do you any good when the other side is playing checkers.

He doesn't know the game.

[cyr330]

19. Thank you

I'm not a huge fan of Obama's, and I get very angry with him. Nonetheless, it IS ridiculous for people to state he's a failure, as he's gotten quite a lot done, and he started with plenty of deficits caused by the repigs.

[Balbus]

23. If I could only rec the subject line, I would.

[cliffordu]

27. Yeah, he's completely fucked up.

[dflprincess]

28. The biggest financial reform since the 1930s?

That's a pretty low bar. Especially as the repeal of the financial reform of the 30s is a major reason we're in this mess and the reform passed now doesn't go nearly as far as Glass Steagall did.

As for the Insurance Profit Protection Act, reform would have guaranteed access to care, instead we got a mandate to keep buying the same crap products from the same old crooks.

[jeanpalmer]

33. The myths keep getting repeated

If they say it often enough, it's like WMD and Saddam -- people will start believing it.

[jeanpalmer]

30. Hard to disagree with your title

might leave out the "total" though.

[MannyGoldstein]

34. FDR: 9% yearly GDP growth and halved unemployment in 5 years

That's how you do it.

[JamesA1102]

41. But where were things at after less than 2 years? nt

[mikekohr]

47. Unemployment dropped from 23.6% in 1932 to 21.7%, in 1934. In FDR's 1st year unemployment grew

from 23.6% to 24.9%
------------------------------------------------clip-----------------------------------------------------------------
see:http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm

1934 
Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications
Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities
and Exchange Commission. (More) 
Congress passes the Securities and Exchange Act and the Trade
Agreement Act. (More) 
The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and
unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery
begins. 
Sweden becomes the first nation to recover fully from the
Great Depression. It has followed a policy of Keynesian
deficit spending. (More) 
1935 
The Supreme Court declares the National Recovery
Administration to be unconstitutional. 
Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress
Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the
Rural Electrification Administration. (More) 
Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief
Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the
Social Security Act. (More) 
Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1
percent, and unemployment falls to 20.1 percent. 
-------------------------------------end of
clip---------------------------------------------------------------------

The key differance here is that President Obama took office as
the economy was teetering on the edge of economic depression,
FDR inherited the historic standard of economic failure. With
a little historical perspective it becomes clear that
President Obama has mirrored the economic accomplishments of
President Roosevelt as far as these differing scenarios allow
for comparison.
FDR had critics on the right and on the left, and his
administration like President Obama's was not perfect, but
then nothing touched by human hands ever is.  The key sentence
in the above timeline and link is under 1934, "A long
road to recovery begins." And the adjective
"long," is the key word in that key sentence.
If we want to avoid the drawn-out, agonizing pain of economic
recovery we have to quit electing the people that have been in
charge for 9 of the last 10 recessions: Republicans.
see:
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/history-of-recessions.html

mike kohr
Bureau County Democrats
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com

[Sam1]

53. Time Lines

"The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins." This from the FDR time line.

The economy turns around: GDP rises, bank profits and banker compensation return to historic highs, and unemployment remains at 10% officially or 20% in reality. This is what should be in the BHO time line.

As long as the financial community remains a criminal conspiracy nothing will change. You have to remove the germs before you bandage the wound or the infection grows.

That we haven't heard more about the Consumer Protection Agency or from Elizabeth Warren signals, to me, business as usual. What we are getting is Restoration not change. The last talking point that I had before BHO's election was "The one thing that I can guarantee is that we will go to hell slower under an Obama administration then a McCain Administration."

I will continue to support and vote for Democrats because they will, at least, not try to balance the budget by reducing the expenditures for KY Jelly.

[grahamhgreen]

69. Chart

[RaleighNCDUer]

81. The problem is, despite having Roosevelt's example to look back on

he appointed as his financial advisers the very people who put the economy in the crapper.

Just because FDR screwed up his first two years, that doesn't mean that Obama had to follow that example.

[mikekohr]

113. I Disagree. FDR Did Not "Screw Up," In His First Two Years, Nor Did President Obama

It takes time to fix the economic"F Ups" of Republican presidents and Republican economic and tax policies.

see History of Recessions: http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/history-of-recessions.html

see History of Job Creation: http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/job-growth.html

see Economic Record: http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/economic-record.html

see History of the National Debt: http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/national-debt.html

mike kohr
Bureau County Democrats

[RaleighNCDUer]

116. For his first two years Roosevelt tried the same fixes that Hoover

did, only trying to do them 'better'. It wasn't until later that he addressed the fundamental problems, and attacked them with unemployment insurance, SS, direct government hiring through the CCC & WPA.

Now, Obama taking control of GM to keep its collapse from dragging down huge parts of the economy was on the right track; a stimulus that was largely tax cuts, that did not include direct hiring by the government for infrastructure improvement was not. It was too small, too ineffective, aimed at the wrong targets. The bank bailout which did not address the fundamental issues that caused the collapse may, or may not, have staved off a depression, but left us wide open for the next speculation-driven bubble.

You can't fix the fuck ups of Republican presidents and Republican economic & tax policies with Republican solutions.

[mikekohr]

122. Again I Respectfully Digress, Following is a short synopsis of FDR's 1st 2 Years

I do not see much here that resembles right of center and nothing that faintly resembles Republican solutions.

--------------clip http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm#BackFirst100Days--------------------------------------
1933
Roosevelt inaugurated; begins "First 100 Days" of intensive legislative activity. (More)
A third banking panic occurs in March. Roosevelt declares a Bank Holiday; closes financial institutions to stop a run on banks.
Alarmed by Roosevelt's plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government. The businessmen try to recruit General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress. (More)
Congress authorizes creation of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Farm Credit Administration, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Federal Emergency Relief Administration, the National Recovery Administration, the Public Works Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority. (More)
Congress passes the Emergency Banking Bill, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, the Farm Credit Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act and the Truth-in-Securities Act. (More)
U.S. goes off the gold standard.
Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, but is obsessed with a balanced budget. He later rejects Keynes' advice to begin heavy deficit spending.
The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1 percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.
1934
Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities and Exchange Commission. (More)
Congress passes the Securities and Exchange Act and the Trade Agreement Act. (More)
The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins.
Sweden becomes the first nation to recover fully from the Great Depression. It has followed a policy of Keynesian deficit spending. (More)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

see also:
?

mike kohr
Bureau County Democrats
http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KansasVoter]

38. Wow, is the GDP the last to see that Obama needs to change his tactics? -1

[Honeycombe8]

40. True true true. You didn't list half the things he did. He needs to advertise! nt

[Life Long Dem]

42. He needs to try harder.

He still has time left - so relax will you.

[inna]

43. what tripe.

... "hasn't solved every problem on the planet yet so he must be a failure" - what a ridiculous straw man.

I don't think anyone is calling Obama a failure; what people are upset about is his pro-corporate agenda. Fierce advocate of the workers he is not. - Which is too bad, because we need one more than ever right now.


"He hasn't yet ushered in a liberal utopia"... ( Huh?? Talk about absurd and lame straw man arguments. We whiners demand a liberal utopia, and that is the source of all our grievances. :crazy: )


"He hasn't been able to repair the damage to our economy that started 30 years ago under Reagan." - True. And the problem is that not only hasn't he attempted to repair the damage, but the process (the corporate assault on the working people) is accelerated at this time.

Needless to say, the historical dynamics and forces at play here totally transcend Obama, and he has very little to do with it; it really is sort of ridiculous and counterproductive to obsessively focus on Obama (like so many people do) and fail to see the wider/global context/dynamics.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

57. There's someone in this very thread calling Obama a failure.

So right off the top, you're completely wrong.

[raystorm7]

84. 1, 2, or a 100 people call Obama a failure, so it must be highlighted as group think...

How about I call him a spineless turncoat? Please start up a thread about that and how I demand my liberal Utopia yesterday :eyes:

[pezDispenser]

90. I won't be asking for any liberal utopia

I happy with the crumbs my overloads have bestowed on me.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chulanowa]

86. You don't really want to start swinging the claims of straw men around.

I recall a situation regarding the coloration of kitchen utensils.

[LiberalLovinLug]

93. Yes. thanks for cutting through the BS

Staw man indeed!
Its not that he's a failure. Its that he could have achieved some real progress towards a progressive agenda, but chose not to.

From his DLC appointment choices, finance dept. choices, and keeping on former Bushies, and exclusion of anyone with a hint of liberalism.

Through his spokes people, his disdainful insults towards his own progressive base, and his Charlie Brown / Lucy relationship with the GOP

His refusal to prosecute any in the previous administration for their crimes, even refusing to open meaningful investigations into the politicization of the AG's office which directly harmed the Democratic party.

His lack of a fight for even a Public Option for health care insurance, let alone even a whisper of Single Payer. Instead it will now be more difficult than ever to get universal health care for US citizens, as his bill ensures total control by private insurers.

His seeming acquiescence to the privatization (corporatization) of public schools.

His delays of repealing DADT

The OP is setting up fantasy goals that no President could achieve in 2 years, and then pretending folks are mad that he didn't achieve them.
No, the real frustration is that he had a one time chance, and all progressives vicariously, to push a strong progressive mandate from the first day, and he chose to try and play it safe.....or what he and the DLC thought was safe, by moving to the right instead, and hoping beyond hope that the GOP would meet him halfway. But even the Blue Dog Dems pissed on his hydrant.

The laughable part (not in a ha ha way) was that he could have advanced a REAL progressive agenda and the idiots at FAUX News, Limpballs and all the others would not call him any worse names than they have now.

[tomp]

48. that's just stupid and not even original. nt

[GOPBasher]

50. I generally agree with you. I'd give him about a B.

Great: Financial reform bill; stimulus; bailout of the auto industry; and (everyone will disagree with me here, but I don't care) the bailout of the financial industry -- without it, we'd be staring at the second great depression, as it was the only difference between what happened now and what happened then.

Pretty good: Health care reform (I'd like a little better one, given the majorities we had in Congress, but it's still pretty good).

Bad: No progress on gay rights -- if he couldn't repeal DADT, he should have at least moved on something else, DOMA, perhaps?

[JamesA1102]

54. That is a fair assessment

Unfortunately for too many it is all or nothing.

[GeorgeGist]

I disagree ...

the depression isn't over.
financial reform has had no impact.
health insurance is not healthcare.

[GeorgeGist]

I disagree ...

the depression isn't over.
financial reform has had no impact.
health insurance is not healthcare.

[GeorgeGist]

58. I disagree ...

the depression isn't over.
financial reform has had no impact.
health insurance is not healthcare.

[harun]

60. He signed the biggest Health Insurance Reform ever, just say'n.

Still waiting on Health Care Reform.

[jonnyblitz]

62. exactly. I always get a good laugh when his defenders add

"health reform" to that STRAINED list of 'accomplishments" they post AD NAUSEUM.

[Safetykitten]

61. Exactly

[Milo_Bloom]

63. Actually, THE FED prevented the temproary stall of the depression.

Unfortunately, Obama hasn't done squat to prevent the eventual collapse.

[UrbScotty]

64. Yep - I know he's lost MY vote for 2012! ;-)

NOT! :-)

Not that he couldn't be a little more liberal... but he's already proven to be one of the better presidents since FDR.

[MyNameIsKhan]

66. sarcasm should be controlled

[ProgressiveLiberal]

75. "KAHHHHHHHNNNNnnnnnnnn!!!!!!"

Sorry, it had to be done.

[Deep13]

67. He hasn't cured cancer either. Bastard. nt

[MindandSoul]

68. Excellent! I wish people would use a fairness principle when criticizing the President!

[Johnny2X2X]

71. He has been a total failure...

Politically.

He's had a lot a policy successes and huge victories for the American Middle class, but he and his staff have done about as bad of a job in telling us about them as is possible. It's almost like the White House is completely clueless when it comes to politics how they've completely let the Right Wing define them and their actions to the American people with little to no rebuttal.

[raystorm7]

85. Well said! It helps us all when people actually put logic into their damn posts...

Instead of starting these retarded flame wars.

[mtnsnake]

117. they've completely let the Right Wing define them"........"with little to no rebuttal"

"It's almost like the White House is completely clueless when it comes to politics how they've completely let the Right Wing define them and their actions to the American people with little to no rebuttal."

If President Obama is to continue on to any level of greatness, he'll have to take time to deal with this very real problem. Well said, Johnny.

[RaleighNCDUer]

72. Propaganda is great when it's OUR propaganda.

What he hasn't done -
Item 1: meaningless
Item 2: Has he tried?
Item 3: bullshit

What he has done -
Item 1: the jury is still out.
Item 2: actually, the biggest 'reform' was the Republican stripping away of protections put in place in the 30s. Having addressed a few, and far from all, of the items stripped away is NOT the 'biggest financial reform since the 30s.
Item 3: That would be the establishment of Medicare. This is a bandaid by comparison.
Item 4: The president does not 'preside' over congress. But that is beside the point. This congress has done a lot of scurrying around and failed to accomplish anything much of substance. How does it go from being a 'do nothing' congress to 'most productive and progressive congress in 40 years'?

Keep it up. Cheerleaders make you feel good - but they don't win the game. Something you might want to keep in mind.

[bdamomma]

73. people nowadays want a quick fix to everything.

it doesn't work that way.

[ProgressiveLiberal]

74. He is NOT a Total Failure !

I don't know how the O.P. can possibly say this because :

1. He managed to arrange a sweetheart deal with the pharmaceutical industry that is expected to gain them over 130 Billion dollars! And the only thing he gave up to do that was the public option!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/11/pharma-deal-with-white-ho_n_353499.html

2. He averted a disastrous economic COLLAPSE by appointing the most knowledgeable people to the FED - the same people who caused the collapse in the first place - can you think of anyone who could possibly know MORE about the situation? Didn't think so!
http://the-classic-liberal.com/white-goldman-sachs-house/

3.Obama has kept our country STRONG and SAFE by :

a. Keeping our beloved Patriot Act in place WITHOUT resorting to namby-pamby reforms
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0301/Obama-signs-Patriot-Act-extension-without-reforms

b.Keeping our rendition camps open
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/01/nation/na-rendition1

c. Maintaining the Presidential right (established by George Bush) of Assassination (only of terrorists of course)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/4743-obamas-attorneys-president-can-legally-kill-any-american

d. Keeping us from an internationally embarrassing situation of historical proportions by rejecting the prosecution of those who committed torture and war crimes
http://www.truth-out.org/111808J

The O.P. is COMPLETELY WRONG when he asserts that Obama has been a total failure. We ALL need to remember what he did for us!

[onlyadream]

76. Yeah! What the F&*K has Obama done anyway??

http://www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

[pezDispenser]

78. bullshit

All he has done is:
- Prevent a second great depression. --- (conjecture)
- Pass the biggest financial reform since the 1930s. --- This was a step in the right direction.
- Pass the biggest reform of healthcare ever. --- Insurance rates are still rising and I've heard now 59 million uninsured, plus 111 deferments. great reform :eyes:
- Preside over the most productive and progressive congress in over 40 years. --- (conjecture) If there is any credit to be given it should be handed to Pelosi.

[Tx4obama]

79. And on a serious note, here's a link to some of what Obama HAS accomplished' so far

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9553200

[Stoic]

82. False argument

As usual, this is trotted out to prove Obama's critics are crazy. Nobody I know has ever made these arguments.

[BetsysGhost]

83. un rec'd

this ain't no chess game.

[JoseGaspar]

87. Other than the OP's assertions, there is no objective evidence...

...to support any of these claims.

Not a single Democrat ran on the "the biggest reform of health care ever" (well, one did and he lost) and every Republican ran against it.

The "biggest financial reform since the 1930s" and "the most productive and progressive congress in over 40 years" managed to result in the worst electoral defeat in 50 years.

On the other hand, in just 22 months, the worst abuses of the Bush regime have become the new normal, and the biggest electoral mandate for the Democrats in a very long time has been squandered... with almost nothing to show for it.

Instead, a right-wing which was almost buried, is now resurgent, the new target is the remnants of the New Deal which were, once upon a time, the only thing that defined Democrats, and two weeks before the election Obama was trashing those very same New Deal ideas as "outdated".

Well, they sure are "outdated", now....

The OP may, of course, continue to talk to an ever smaller number of true-believers about how the American public was "stupid" and how the press was "unfair" and how the plan and the man were a-number-one-perfect from the get go (if only one were enlightened enough to "see" it)...

...but the biggest nail in that coffin appears to be that after only 22 months, this is all that there is going to be.

If this is "success"... please, no more.

[DemocraticPilgrim]

89. Spot on!

[gtar100]

91. Those aren't the criticisms that progressives have of President Obama.

It was his appointment of conservative economists, his weak capitulation to the healthcare industry in his negotiations on the health care bill, it his continued push for war in Afganistan, the disrepect towards progressives his administration has shown, and his continual call for bi-partisanship with republicans who have publically vowed to destroy him. Once elected, he abandonded those who most got him elected - 18 to 29 year olds who who came out by the millions. I'm sure others could be more articulate and complete.

What makes liberalism so great is its ability to absorb and understand nuance and dynamics. Obama was not expected to work miracles but he was expected to champion Democratic ideals. Where he succeeded he got played down and where he failed has been broadcast to high heaven. He has not effectively confronted his accusers. In my opinion, he acts like someone who's got a threat against him. He says wonderful things, is bright and intelligent, but on many policies, he may as well be republican. And it shows in the fact that with the largest Democratic majority in our goverment for years, the republicans still basically ran the show.

He has done great things as you indicate but he has not effectively lead this country or at least the people who are willing and motivated to follow him. He has enemies and he has placated to them far too much. And he has not pushed the Senate Democrats to do what it takes to push through all the great legislation the House has passed these past two years. That is a disappointment, a big disappointment. If he changes, gets tough and makes things happen, then I will be cheering him on because in the end what matters is the success and prosperity of our nation and the world.

[bobburgster]

92. What an ass I am!

I got pissed reading the title, hit unrec. and then read it. feel free to lambaste me, I deserve.

BTW, great post!

[Number23]

94. You've angered the sock drawer!

Rec'ing for that reason alone. :)

[MrModerate]

96. What's more, he hasn't done everything on MY agenda, so let's show him the door! n/t

[Tx4obama]

104. Wow....

Out of the HUNDREDS of things President Obama has done http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9553200 not even 'one' was on your agenda? That's pretty bizarre ;)

[MrModerate]

105. A few were on my agenda, sure, but he willfully neglected . . .

To do *everything* I wanted done -- and he's had, well, *months* to do so!!!

[Tx4obama]

107. * big SMILE *

It's my fault.
The first time I read your comment I read 'anything' instead of 'everything' ;)

[jonnyblitz]

97. here's a KICK because I like the subject line!

:D

[wpelb]

98. I'm not a big supporter of Pres. Obama

I don't think he was the best the Democratic Party had to offer in 2008. He got nominated because then-Sen. Clinton rubbed some people like chalkboard scratching, and former Sen. Edwards (more or less literally) seemed to make a habit of tripping over his own "manhood." As the Democratic Party's standard-bearer, Obama further benefited from a GOPher ticket that featured a man with all of the charisma of a mushroom, and a running mate who terrified a substantial portion of the population. With all of those advantages, Obama managed only a high single-digit victory, though he did much better in the Electoral College.

All of that said, however, he has had to fight the inertia of Washington, D.C. Many Democrats voted for one or more of the policies of former Pres. Bush that are now blamed for the mess the country is in. It is thus difficult if not impossible to effect meaningful change within one or two calendar years. Nonetheless, as Commander-in-Chief, Pres. Obama will be credited or blamed for everything that comes out of Washington for the rest of his term.

[MrModerate]

106. Just curious. Who do you consider *was* . . .

"The best the Democratic Party had to offer in 2008?" Not Edwards, one supposes . . .

[Mhak]

101. Should really be careful with how you phrase things...

"Pass the biggest reform of healthcare ever." Yeah, but I noticed how you didn't say "Passed the best or most important reform of healthcare ever." Coming from a liberal army vet, I wanted healthcare to be passed. I had Tricare, which was universal healthcare and I loved it. It was quick, easy, and I was served by excellent doctors. Didn't fill out nearly as many waivers and forms and crap that most people who are privately insured have to deal with. I thought if they could bring something like Tricare to America, it would be great.

But what happened? The dems caved on every matter that was important. Public option? Nope, too "hard to pass". More oversight of medical insurance giants that were almost overtly stealing from their clients? Only in a superfluous sense, god forbid the dems tell the republicans to soak their collective heads and insist that some *real* regulations be instated. The bill that was passed was so watered down that, in my opinion, it is nothing to brag about. I wanted real change, we all did. Instead we got a stack of paper that will never make much of a difference for any of us.

[RaleighNCDUer]

118. Actually, 'biggest' reform is not true either - that would be the establishment

of Medicare/Medicaid. That was a fundamental change which, while it may not have affected quite so many people, was a game changer for the entire healthcare system.

I was raised as a brat overseas, and I never heard my folks worry about doctor bills, hesitate to get us (or themselves) to the doctor, and I never really even knew that the issue existed until I graduated HS and returned to the States. It is amazing how that lack of anxiety can color your view of the world.

Welcome to DU!

[liberation]

102. Oh yes... the passive aggressive snark

trying to mask the strawman. LOL.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

112. 25% right, 75% wrong.

-Prevent a second great depression.

I think this is probably accurate, although we can't be certain.

- Pass the biggest financial reform since the 1930s.
- Pass the biggest reform of healthcare ever.
- Preside over the most productive and progressive congress in over 40 years.

These are all gross exaggerations.

More accurate would be "he's had two years, with control of both houses and apart from the bailout, a healthcare bill that was a small step in the right direction and used up the political capital that could have powered a much bigger step, and upholding DADT after the Republicans got it overturned, he has achieved little"

[JamesA1102]

120. Saying he acheived little as at best a gross exaggeration

and at worst a total lie.

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

[ashling]

115. It is, however, incorrect to say that he has presided over Congress

POTUS does not "preside over" anything except the executive branch of government. It's what we call separation of powers..
:shrug: