Obama's pay freeze destroys Xmas

[Hawkowl]

How is a federal pay freeze going to impact Christmas sales? When the President of the United States announces just after Black Friday, that there will be no more raises for federal workers, don't you think the private sector is expecting the next kick in the crotch? Do you think people are going to spend, spend, spend? How is this supposed to help the economy?

People are going to redouble their efforts to save, because the President has indicated that only hard times are on the horizon. At least for the working men and women of this country. A reduction in consumer spending could very well send the economy into the dreaded double dip.

Now, if you're a millionaire, you are probably going to keep your Bush tax cuts because compromise is necessary. The tax cuts have to be paid for on the backs of federal workers. I think it is becoming increasingly evermore obvious that Obama only values rich people, Wall Street, and corporations. Oh, sure he cares about everyday people--until our needs conflict with the wealthy tyrants that are our masters. Then WE must compromise.

[DesertFlower]

1. there are many companies who have

not given raises in the last few years. my husband works for a large international company. no raises unless you're a top performer. then you get a 1% increase.

[Hawkowl]

3. The freeze reinforces this trend

At my company, raises of about 2-3% for the workers and 30-40% for the top management. Many people don't realize that the government sector is the canary in the coal mine. This is just another signal from Obama that workers and their salaries don't matter. Don't matter to the economy and don't matter as human beings struggling to support their families.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. Thank you! eom

[Lance_Boyle]

52. Canary in the coal mine?

Those of us in the private sector have been in that coal mine for 2 or more YEARS now while you canaries flitted about in your luxury cages topside.

[DrDan]

10. that is exactly the case here - I also work for a large corporation

1% - and you feel blessed to get that

[mikekohr]

57. We got 0% last year, Fortune 500 Company, but no lay offs!

[Fruittree]

11. Same for both my husband and myself - pay freezes

and small raises have been a fact of life for awhile. Combined with higher and higher local taxes, it's not good.

[okieinpain]

20. yeah, but isn't this part of the problem. we do have a defecit problem

and other countries are attacking their problem. I say we should cut a lot of the military weapons spending.

[RandomThoughts]

2. And once again someone says the rich are masters.

Again not true, and what they want you to think, and every time they create despair, and you say something wrong like they are your masters, you are following the reason they want you to feel despair. They want you to think what you just said.

You do understand the rich do it so you will submit to be their slaves.

[MadHound]

17. Wow, aren't you out of touch with reality

If the actions of the wealthy and elite over the past thirty years hasn't convinced you of the tremendous control exerted by the wealthy and elite, I suppose nothing will.

[RandomThoughts]

21. Would have been better to say slave to money concepts or money first.

I do agree many rich do many good things, and overcome the money first thoughts.

As far as out of touch, depends how you see reality.

What actions? They took my beer and travel money, and did far worse to many other people. But really what effect is that in the totality of existence?

How in any way could they control me? And they don't control anything else, but some people do what they say.

:shrug:


Been listening to this song.


Simon & Garfunkel - Slip Sliding Away
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8nec2_simon-garfunkel-slip-sliding-away-f_music

Can you tell me how they could control what I think and feel that song is about or what I hear in that song, what memories it brings back, and thoughts on so many things? Can you tell me how they could control the thoughts and feelings from hearing and thinking on things for so many years, that may not have even come from the thoughts of people in a mortal state?

[MadHound]

22. They don't control anything else? OOOOK.

So the rich don't buy and control politicians? They don't rig the game so that it is all in their favor? They don't get legislation passed that screws us while enriching them?

If you don't see that, and the impact it has on all our lives, then you're simply ignoring reality. Them may not control what goes on in your head, but they've got a firm grasp of what goes on outside of it. If you don't get this, you simply haven't been paying attention.

[RandomThoughts]

62. Nope they don't control them, but some give followship to them for many reasons.

They do not control anyone, but some give them say over their lives.

[TK421]

56. The rich run everything, don't they? They run this fucking country, not the

ones who work for slave-wages at Wal-Mart or the woman who's working two jobs at the 7-Eleven and print shop ( like one in particular I'm thinking of ) just to barely make ends meet? I know these people...I run into them and talk to them just about every day and they used to have lucrative businesses around here for many years until the economy tanked...

Or have I misunderstood your statement there? I hope I did, anyway

[boppers]

5. No more trickle down.

High paid federal employees, CEO's, investment bankers....

It's over.

We're done with paying out more money, in hopes that it would make it to working folks.

[napi21]

6. That's nonsense. He didn't announce a PAY CUT! Everyone knows how

much they make and what they can afford to spend at any time of the year, and especially Christmas. It's always nice to anticipate a raise once a year, but most companies have done away with that annual raise idea some years ago. ie: My husban & I are on SS with no other income. It would have been nice to get an increase in SS payments too, but we are accepting of the "no increase" because we realize the country can't afford it right now. I don't think freezing wages or freezing Fed. payments of any ind is going to affect Christmas at all.

[Hawkowl]

7. Freeze comes before the cut

Why? Because the freeze is so infinitesimally small in comparison to the budget deficit, it won't make any difference. And this is the reason Obama will come back and say YOU need to take a cut SS benefits and THEY need to take a cut in pay.

Simply to pay for his compromise of extending Bush tax cuts.

If you seriously think they aren't coming for your SS benefits, and you are merrily going to spend whatever you are going to spend....then good luck to you.

[LiberalFighter]

18. If they want to commit suicide then they should go for it.

I say anyone in Congress that even twitches to make those cuts should be attacked with a rally at their home city. Better yet, find out which areas of their Congressional District went solidly for the jerk. Whether it is a precinct(s), town/city, or county. And make sure someone does a video of it and post it on YouTube.

[Mimosa]

39. ^ Exactly right. ^

What a thoughtful person you are. I can't imagine how anybody can survive on S.S unless one's home is paid for. Bless you, Napi21. :)

[fatbuckel]

41. Everyone knows how much they make and what they can afford to spend at any time of the year.Period

[JuniperLea]

46. Bullshit...

No one knows what financial hardship could befall them... no one knows if they are going to get sick, have their car break down, have their plumbing break down. Taking money for granted is the worst possible plan, and that's what you propose here.

[pnwmom]

8. Prices are stable, so federal salaries aren't going up.

What's the problem?

He's not laying off Federal employees, which is what the Rethugs want him to do.

[Sherman A1]

9. Prices are not stable, but I agree that he is not laying off

however, this does not bode well for any of us.

[AngryAmish]

23. You are right. Housing prices are going down.

[Sherman A1]

42. And gasoline is going up, electric up, natural gas up,

real estate taxes up, insurance up, health care costs up, groceries up so while my home is decreased in value my day to day has increased.

[Xenotime]

28. Layoffs will be the next thing. Don't you see?!?!

[johncoby2]

12. As a Federal Employee myself, I have three words for you....

SUCK IT UP!

Seriously. People are unemployed. We have a HUGE debt that Bus created for us. It is time we all sacrificed. We have been getting raises every year for the last 10 that I can remember. Even during the worst of times.

So just suck it up.

[kywildcat]

13. Amen! frankly I've been waiting for this to happen

and it's about time. I work for a partnership and our raises (if you got one) barely offset the raise in insurance. And I'm lucky to still be employed because most of my counterparts lost their jobs to india.

[JuniperLea]

47. People are spoiled...

And they forget history. The sacrifices made during the Great Depression are a good role model for today. No one wants to hear that... no one wants to give up that daily latte, let alone movies and dinners out every week. It's going to take everyone pulling together... you won't find many here willing to do that. Selfishness rules.

[mikekohr]

65. You Da Man John!

Courageous, reasoned, responsible. We need more posts like this.

:woohoo:

[jeanpalmer]

14. This is the first step

in the acclimation process to prepare the public for the bigger cuts to come. It's relatively small -- $2.6 billion a year savings on a $1.4 trillion deficit -- about .2%.

[babylonsister]

15. Huh? How?? These folks still have jobs with no indication

they're going to lose them. The Sky Is Falling! :eyes:

[dave29]

16. I work in the private sector

I haven't seen a raise in over 5 years

:shrug:

[RockaFowler]

19. Me neither

Heck last year we had a 5 day furlow.

[dionysus]

24. yes, he's the grinch.

jeebus...

:eyes:

[wishlist]

25. Hard to justify raises when Soc Sec and Federal retirees aren't getting raises

Announcing this just before Christmas and when they have already planned on how much their pay would be after the scheduled January raise is shitty. Their paychecks will actually go down because their health insurance premiums are going up. But as a retired Federal employee getting a very small pension and no COLA next year, my health insurance premium increase will take several hundred dollars more out of my pension during the year (and I still have to pay federal taxes on the part of my pension that I never see since it goes to health care premiums) I already switched to the cheapest plan that would still provide adequate health coverage for me and my husband since we have had a lot of medical problems since I retired.

What bugs me the most is that Obama is obviously hoping to use this for some kind of dealmaking leverage with Repubs. Otherwise he would have suggested it sooner, not just weeks before the scheduled pay raises were to take effect and knowing it is the opposite of a stimulus to the economy. For tax cuts for the wealthy to remain in place while Federal employees get a paycut after their health insurance goes up stinks and if I thought Obama had a chance of convincing Repubs to let the wealthy tax cuts expire, it wouldn't bother me so much.

[SidDithers]

26. And then...all the noise! All the noise, noise, noise, noise!

If there's one thing Obama hates...all the noise, noise, noise, noise!
And they'll shriek, squeak, and squeal racing round on their wheels,
Then dance with jin-tinglers tied onto their heels!"

"They'll blow their flu-flubers, they'll bang their tar-tinkers,
They'll blow their hoo-hoovers, they'll bang their gar-dinkers!
They'll beat their trum-tookers, they'll slam their sloo-slunkers!
They'll beat their blum-blookers, they'll wham their hoo-whunkers!"

"And they'll play noisy games, like Zoo-Zivver-Car-Zay,
A rollerskate-type of LaCrosse and croquet!
Then they'll make earsplitting noises deluxe
On their great big Electro-Who-Cardio-Floox!"

"Then the Who's, young and old, will sit down to a feast.
And they'll feast, and they'll feast, and they'll feast, feast, feast, feast!
They'll feast on Who-pudding, and rare Who roast-beast.
Roast-beast is a feast Obama can't stand in the least!"

"And then, they'll do something Obama hates most of all!
Every Who down in Whoville, the tall and the small,
Will stand close together with Christmas bells ringing!
They'll stand hand-in-hand, and those Who's will start singing!"


Maybe Obama will drown a few puppies and kittens too, after he's done destroying Xmas.

:eyes:

Sid

[JuniperLea]

51. :)

Too bad Cindy Lou doesn't post on DU:)

[PSzymeczek]

61. Well,

she's no more than two.

[JuniperLea]

66. I love Cindy Lou Who!

[Imajika]

27. Wow, exaggerate much?

First, Obama PROPOSED a pay freeze for Federal Employees for 2 years. This has to first be approved by Congress before it would go into effect. So as of now, NOTHING has happened.

Second, I don't think too many people are going to be all that sympathetic towards Federal workers wailing about potential pay freezes considering huge swaths of the private sector have been seeing outright layoffs and salary cuts.

Obama isn't talking about cutting the Federal workforce or slashing salaries, only a 2 year pay freeze. If only so many of us in the private sector could be so lucky.

I understand some Federal employees are raging because they now MIGHT feel a small bit of the pain the private sector has been dealing with, but this will most certainly NOT destroy Christmas.

[ellie]

29. My pay was cut 25% two years ago

and it hasn't come back. I work for a privately owned company.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

30. At my husband's employer, which is a water/sewer authority

quasi-municipality ran by an appointed board, they haven't had raises for the past 3 years. No one, not even the upper echelon (except for the CEO, but there was a contractual clause pre-economy freefall) has gotten any raises. No bonuses, no raises - nada, zip, zilch.

[bhikkhu]

31. Get over it.

By that same logic we should just give federal employees massive bonuses so they can spend-up the economy and we can all get jobs serving them. Nobody wants that, least of all federal employees.

An economy that doesn't revolve around christmas would be better anyway.

[Phx_Dem]

32. No big screen TVs?!! That's just heartbreaking

:cry:

Maybe some of them will discover the true meaning of Christmas.

[emilyg]

33. +1

[JuniperLea]

49. +1

[TwilightGardener]

34. They were going to spend raises they didn't get yet on Christmas gifts?

Who does that?

[Hawkowl]

37. Adaptive Rational Expectations

It is a theory in Economics that people will base their behavior both on what has happened to them in the past, AND what they expect to happen in the future.

This is the argument that people who constantly scream "stop being negative!" mean. It goes to an underlying assumption that people's economic behavior is governed in large part by attitude.

[Jakes Progress]

35. Rocketing between Scrooge and Saint Nick

the replies here are quite telling.

However, the real issue isn't the freeze but the timing. Rachel had it right last night. Freezing government wages, if that is something you have decided to to, is a great bargaining point. We could have waited and pretended to "give in" to republicans on this issue in exchange for something. We get bupkis. The problem is that Obama keeps giving away the farm before the bargaining starts. Does he think this will give him a lot of good will with republicans so they will do the right thing and reciprocate? Is he that naive still?

This move might be debatable, but the timing is just stupid.

[Aramchek]

36. Just because people aren't getting a raise, doesn't mean they don't get paid

this is exactly the same thing as not raising Social Security payments.
and it is to be expected in a recession.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeyondGeography]

40. Idiotic

[ksoze]

43. Give me a break. Welcome to the real world.

Private companies and State governments have been going though layoffs, zero pay increases and furloughs for the last two or three years. The fact that federal workers will now miss a built-in .09% increase is not going to wreck the economy. The "backs of the federal workers" have been untouched to date - welcome to our nightmare.

[Bobbie Jo]

44. Good Lord.

Obama Destroys Christmas.

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: and :wtf:


This place has lost it's damn mind.

[JuniperLea]

48. LOL! Spot the hell on, Bobbie Jo!

Damn him! This proves he's a Muslin! OMG!

[Scurrilous]

58. Yep. n/t

[JuniperLea]

45. Many of us haven't had a raise of any kind in two to three years...

Why should the guv'ment workers be any different? Why would their lack of a raise make more of a difference than the rest of us?

[Mass]

50. He must be a muslin then

:sarcasm:

(BTW, I disagree with the freeze, but can we not relate that with religious events-destroy Xmas make me think at Fox News).

[Ikonoklast]

53. This is the single most ridiculous post I've seen from you, and that's saying a lot.

The convoluted logic you are using is making Teabaggers look rational.

So, a wage freeze equals no income?

[Thrill]

54. Most people in the Private Sector haven't got raises in a long time

.

[ZombieHorde]

55. This is so silly, I almost recommended this. The holiday is shattered! Aaaahhhhh!

You have joined the War Against Christmas crowd. So funny.

[mstinamotorcity]

59. You can't say its only the President

that is for the rich!!!! Some of your average everyday people are for the rich. Isn't that why you see all those mom and pop folks at those Restoring Honor and Tea party rallies!!!And compromise is not necessary, its surrender!!!!!!!!

[zulchzulu]

60. We all know Christmas is measured by how many gifts you give and how many malls you go to

It's too bad federal workers have been getting 3% raises every year while private sector workers have had their Christmas ruined years ago and state workers have been laid off or had to take non-paying furlough days for years.

I want my pony. :crazy:

[Jennicut]

63. Sheesh. I don't work as a stay at home Mom. I have not bought Christmas gifts for my family for

five years. I went back to school and just couldn't afford it. I give everyone a homemade ornament and a picture of my daughters. Everyone expects this. Did I destroy Christmas because I didn't spend tons of money at the stores. Oh no!

I am not sure how I feel about the freeze...a bit wary about it. But destroying Christmas? Nuts.

[Phentex]

64. Christmas is NOT an essential...

talk to the people giving up food and get back to us...

[Sheepshank]

67. Pay freeze here for 3 years

and I work for local government.

Most of us don't have annual performace reveiews at Christmas time, so the payfreeze has really nothing to do with what time of the year the announcement is made.

In fact I'd rather hear about it before Christmas and adjust any possibility of overspending in anticipation of a raise or bondus to pay thigs off.

[dionysus]

68. you need to team up with Billo and stop the war on christmas!!!11!!11