Federal workers: Welcome to the real world. We've been waiting for you.

[ksoze]

Forgive us if we do not shed too many tears at your anguish over possibly not getting a built-in raise for the next two years. You see, almost everyone else has not been so lucky. Raises went out of fashion a few years ago and layoffs and furloughs have been all the rage over here on Main Street. While your services are important and needed, you have been shielded from the storms around you. When you feel angry and cheated, talk to your State workers, with whom a pay freeze would have been a gift, instead of the furloughs and layoffs. Talk to almost any private sector business about raises and bonuses - they went out with Leno and Lindsay Lohan. These are times when being furloughed for a few days or weeks is considered a bonus.

Welcome to the club. It was only going to be a .09% raise next year anyway.

[polichick]

1. Boner, is that you? nt

[Hello_Kitty]

2. Thanks for advancing RW race-to-the-bottom rhetoric. eom

[closeupready]

3. Misdirected anger. You should be asking why EVERYONE isn't getting raises,

not condescendingly talking down to federal workers after they get the shaft. Shame on you. Unrecced.

[Hannah Bell]

11. +100.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. +1,000,000!!!

[senseandsensibility]

47. Ditto

This OP is something I'd expect to hear on RW radio.

[Dr.Phool]

61. Like the old Dylan tune, "It's all right ma"

"He ain't interested in gettin' any higher, he just wants to pull you down in the same ditch he's in".

[PVnRT]

69. That doesn't play into the Standard Mythology being pushed

You know, like how all those bureaucrats have easy, cushy jobs and make 10X what the private sector does with outstanding benefits. About how everyone has to make sacrifices to get the economy moving, except for the wealthy, who need more taxes and corporate welfare.

[woo me with science]

77. I agree 100000 percent, but that is not going to happen.

People need to wake up and demand change en masse, and shared pain may be the ONLY way that happens.

[tabatha]

4. Netx, they have to freeze Wall Street pay and no bonuses.

[FSogol]

5. Unrec. Federal Employees are the middle class, not the enemy. n/t

[Tansy_Gold]

9. +1 to you. Unrec to the thread n/t

[Iris]

10. well said.

[peace13]

14. We are talking about a freeze not a decrease or job loss.

How is that treating someone like an enemy? This OP is, and the responses here are amazing to me. Either people who are responding have great jobs or no jobs or are retired or disabled. The middle class by and large has been taking huge pay cuts over the past five years. Oh to have a mirror and see just who is responding here. Many of us here need to join the real world. The middle class has suffered greatly and now it is time for a freeze of all salaries.

[closeupready]

20. No offense, but this post makes absolutely NO SENSE to me. At all.

The issue is not now, nor has it ever been, that there is not enough money to go around. If anything, there is more money than ever before.

The issue is that those at the very top are keeping more for themselves, and getting stingier with those lower on the totem pole.

Do you not see that? What am I missing here? ???

[peace13]

33. Look hard and you will see that those at the top and the bottom have nothing to do with each other.

Wish in one and and *hit in the other and see which fills up faster. The bankers and wall street are beyond our control. If we are talking budget then lets talk. Stop the wars, hold the wages, remove the tax cuts for all and get to the bottom of this. If we can agree to keep the cuts for the middle then great but if we are going to call a million in income for the year middle then agree to not renew the cuts for all. The point is that those with and without jobs have been taking cuts in pay for years. Freezing the fed employees for two years is peanuts. Most out here have taken cuts for years. you say that there is more money than ever. That is stolen money form the system and I've been watching and waiting and that stuff is never coming home to help the middle class.

[Hello_Kitty]

23. I'm broke and unemployed and I disagree with you.

Dragging government workers down will not improve everyone's situation.

They say when live crabs are boiling in a pot and one tries to escape the others pull him back in.

[peace13]

34. Freezing is not dragging.

If you truly have no job I am sure that you understand that. Federal employees...the last sacred group to join the real world. We need to solve the problem for everyone.

[PVnRT]

71. Based on your posts here

It appears that the problem is that the working and middle class make too much damn money. How do those poor rich people survive when us leeches make so much?

[PVnRT]

70. "Anyone who doesn't suffer like me deserves to"

That's really what you're saying, right?

[peace13]

74. I am not a bitter, vindictive person.

I know that our problems will not be solved unless everyone contributes to the solution. When we stop funding these insane wars we will have the funds to protect the people. The problem of Wall Street and the banks is something that must be addressed by Obama and our criminal politicians. My guess is that this will never happen. Watching * stroll around selling his books tells me that justice is on the run here. Eveyone is making sacrifices, by everyone I mean the real people not the 2% or the one world order folks. If we want a solution we have to do it with things that are in our control. That is very little these days. Do not harden your heart to people who think differently than you do. You may be right for all I know. We just see it differently at this point in time.

[elleng]

75. ...

:thumbsup:

[Starry Messenger]

6. Unrec.

Private sector people have been shitting on the idea of unions for years. You should have organized instead.

[lamp_shade]

7. Big rec. Big Fat Rec.

[displacedvermoter]

8. Solidarity with who?

[donco6]

16. Anyone but the worker, I suppose.

Perhaps he/she forgot what his/her tagline said?

[peace13]

12. I hear you !

I would love to have had increases for the last 10 years.That is the biggest jaw drop here. Folks, guaranteed raises are a thing that vanished from the land many moons ago.

[Arctic Dave]

13. Another, "my life sucks, so yours must too" thread.

Unionize or stfu.

[CakeGrrl]

15. Why are people acting like this is a shocking, grievous injustice?

The Republicans want to flat-out CUT the jobs. Rather than having all Fed workers continue to work at a flat salary for two years, they'd like to kick some 10% of them out to the unemployment rolls.

If I had the choice, I'd keep the job with the TEMPORARY freeze. You wouldn't?

School districts are starting to do this, and the rationale is the same: Either freeze pay to save money or cut more jobs.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

36. Again, speaking as a federal employee, no one here at work today was complaining about the freeze.

My Secretary sent everyone an email explaining in very succinct terms what the freeze meant.

The OP's thread is as useless and it is divisive and insulting.

Federal employees are not the enemy, nor do we feel "entitled" to anything.

Amazing that we're being attacked. It's easy, and it feeds right into the wingnut playbook.

Congrats!

[OhioBlue]

65. Thanks for the insight

I didn't think it was that big of a deal either - tho I'm not a Federal employee. But just looking at the numbers, it didn't look like something that would make me that upset if I were in their shoes.

[katandmoon]

17. Unrec.

[Ikonoklast]

18. You revel in the fact that others' income will suffer.

Unrec the right-wing talking point that "others need to take less because I had to".



Congratulations.

You are anti-labor.

You should be asking why those other workers mentioned aren't getting MORE.

[CreekDog]

19. By your standard, we should all wish that more people get hit by buses

so they understand the pain of those were hit before.

where does all this shit end?

okay, have it your way...wish bad on everybody who *you think* has it so good (even those the people you're talking about are usually middle class, often working class and yes, even poor...because lots of secretaries in the federal workforce make relatively little).

but whomever made you god and decided that you could decide who gets to suffer more and who doesn't --i'd like to know who made you god.

[Skittles]

55. bullshit

the OP is not saying that it is FAIR - the point is, fed workers are now being hit with what many of were hit with YEARS ago

[CreekDog]

66. i'm right

:hi:

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

22. GMTA. n/t

[ksoze]

26. I must have missed the memo

I was not aware of a number of posts equaling some kind of status here. By that method, I assume you are someone of great power, albeit with poor judging abilities. I do not think ill of federal workers, I simply sarcastically reminded those who are up in arms over over these freezes that many others have fared worse.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

37. Who's up in arms? Sure there was some remarks from the unions yesterday, but that talk has

quieted down today.

No one in my agency nor in the other federal agencies that I work with are even talking about this issue today. And many of us agree that it had to be done, though we disagree with being used as a political pawn by the administration. If anything, that's what the anger is about, not about the salary freeze itself.

[GentryDixon]

24. Sounds like conservative Tea Party

logic to me. "If I can't have it, no one deserves it". :nopity:

And I unrec for good measure.

[Henryman]

25. You are so wrong!

There were no big bonuses or pay raises during the boom years and there should not be a pay freeze in the lean years. The disparity between government and private pay for the same jobs is huge, favoring the private sector. We need good people in the government jobs!

[ksoze]

27. You have your numbers backwards

Federal workers earn double their private counterparts.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ksoze]

40. Your points are lost

with the troll name calling. Grow up and have a spirited debate without the elementary school playground talk

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

41. Attacking me doesn't change the facts. I'm tired of these right wing LIES!!!

Look at the facts that I posted.

You are wrong, offensive, and insulting! Thankfully very few here agree with you and that makes me feel terrific!

[PSzymeczek]

48. No. Not even close.

When I was a Federal employee, I was making about $60K a year as a contract specialist. My counterparts working for the contractors were making at least twice that.

[Henryman]

57. You are incorrect.

Where do you come up with such nonsense?

[Dr.Phool]

62. Reading Sarah Palin comic books again?

[PVnRT]

72. Prove it

[Sienna86]

28. Tone.

The federal workers I have spoken with are just fine with the wage freeze. Maybe it's the company I keep, but they realize that everyone is going to have to sacrifice to get this wonderful country headed back in the right direction.

[lamp_shade]

31. I've had the same response from friends who work for the feds. In fact, one gal said she was

feeling kinda guilty about getting a raise when many of her friends were getting paycuts or losing their jobs altogether.

[ksoze]

44. wrong posting reply

Moved

[obxhead]

29. Funny how the people who vote on this will

still see their raises though.

I'll believe they are serious when they roll their own wages back to pre 2000 levels.

[whistler162]

51. You mean Congress that has frozen its salary two years

in a row!

http://www.legistorm.com/member_of_congress_salaries.html

A lot of money for little done but they have frozen their pay for the last two years.

[obxhead]

58. Do you believe the Republican controlled Congress of 2011

will continue that freeze?

[Dr.Phool]

63. When you're making $175k per year, a freeze ain't that hard to take.

Plus benefits and bribes.

[MrsCorleone]

32. Good grief.

Ksoze, I'm guessing that you're feeling angry and bitter about your lot in life, but railing at public workers is counterproductive to you and your fellow workers, both in the public and private sectors.

The republicans have always wanted to chip away at the pay, pensions and unions of public employees, and they have been very successful in turning public sentiment against them. Turn on any RW radio show (or talk to your Repub congressperson) and you're likely to hear the very same sentiment that you've shared with us here. The manufactured hatred directed at public employees has gone mainstream. Even though the negative sentiment is purely emotional, it works. Shit, even my Dem friend recently expressed a bit of resentment, and she knows better than that. Once talked down, she finally admitted it was just bitterness.

I have always supported public employees and unions because, as a small biz owner, I understand that if those in my community do not do well, I don't do well. It really that simple. The Republicans don't give a flying fart about living wages because it is clear that their base comes first, and their base needs to profit. The base are the transnationals, BTW, and they really don't have allegiance to the people in this country anymore. There are plenty of "consumers" with more disposable income overseas than there are here. So, in order to eek out more profit, wages here must fall, and they have, except in the public sector. They stand in the way. So, the conglomerates, with the enthusiastic help of the Republicans, are effectively turning the peeps against the "greedy" public sector employee. If they are successful, watch how fast wages in the private sector fall.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. As a middle-class federal employee, your OP is not only divisive and plain wrong--as

most federal employees I know agree with the freeze--you are very offensive.

And to that, I am thrilled to push the 'unrecommended' button.

Congrats!

[AspenRose]

39. Why are you assuming federal workers are complaining?

I haven't heard any complain. Not one.

[Writer]

42. While I don't like the way the OP introduced this issue, he or she does raise an important issue.

I have relatives who are HIGHLY paid federal workers. When I say highly, I mean in the $70K+ range for jobs that, in the private sector would likely pay around $50K or so. Perhaps less. They have received raises every year while I watched relatives who work in the private sector experience a 5% or so drop in real income over the last decade and countless layoffs.

While in no way do I denigrate the service of federal workers, I do dislike the double-standard between federal and private employees. Federal employees, by luck of federal regulations, have indeed been shielded from wage market realities. I do think, however, that an earlier poster was correct to say that ALL employees should receive required raises. I think that should be the norm.

But before we get there, we NEED to balance the federal budget. Unfortunately, this means that federal wages will stay the same for two years or so. Given that their wages have actually increased during a down economy, I can't see why my relatives can't cope without the extra 1-3% of extra income over a two year period. They are not suffering. Trust me.

[Mimosa]

79. Same here. I have relatives who are Fed employees.

They are not hurting.

[quaker bill]

43. Why do you care?

The savings here in total adds up to roughly 0.2 percent of the taxes you aren't actually paying (the deficit) over the next 10 years. How is it possibly in your interest to take money you are not paying away from someone else? If you were paying it, it would add up to a handful of dollars a year, but you aren't.

No just cause is served in this. Not one of these folks has caused you any harm, layoffs or furloughs, that was done by the BS artists in the private sector. Why the need for vengance flowing throughout your words?

Public sector workers are generally understaffed for the assigned tasks and often take significant pay cuts in exchange for benefits and some job security. Opportunities for raises and advancement for even the highest achievers are generally vastly more limited than in the private sector.

Having run a private sector business and segment of a governmental agency in the same field, I can assure you that the two are not similar in this respect. High achievers became associates and prinicpals promptly in the private sector where they might stay at entry level for a decade or more in government because there are no opportunities available. In years when raises can be had in government, good performers get the full 3 percent, those not so stellar get less. In the private sector, most years giving a raise of less than 5 percent was an insult.

Yes, you could get laid off, but public sector layoffs have been the leading cause of job loss for many months now. Government employees have not been immune.

[ksoze]

45. Guess I struck a nerve - the wrong one.

My OP was not meant to denigrate nor disparage federal workers. The snarky writing style of the original post may have wrongly left that impression. My OP was in response to posts I saw earlier which seemed to treat Federal worker pay as a political third rail of some kind or a new killer of xmas. I have close relatives and friends who are fed employees, so take no pleasure in the misfortune of others. I do however think that they have been for the most shielded from the cuts that have effected the private and state sector - not due to the fed workers themselves but the last decade of republican blind eyes and Wall Street manipulators. I know very few private sector employees who have seen a raise over the last two years - just staying in place has been a goal for many.

It also seems however that there a few here looking for posts to leap on to turn into their personal outlet for their own issues or superiority complexes.

[sudopod]

50. Post inflamatory opinion on internet.

Grouse about negative responses.

[donco6]

64. Pfft. You wanted a flamewar and got one.

Why back off now?

[Chisox08]

46. So instead of fighting for raises and better benifits in the public sector

You cheer a pay freeze on federal employees. This will only make things worse in the long run.
He should have announced the he his cabinet and all of our congresscritters will be taking a pay cut. Instead of going after more workers.
This is another example of class warfare. Tax cuts for the rich and austerity for the rest of us.

[Skittles]

56. there's no cheering there

just a reminder that they are just now getting hit with the same stick that's already clobbered many others, and for many years

[sudopod]

49. Solidarity much?

:thumbsdown:

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Unrec

Another selfish post that advocates screwing even more workers since so many are already being screwed.

[Citizen Worker]

53. Does anyone see a pattern emerging? The federal government LOANS General Motors money but in order

to qualify for the loan the United Auto Workers must agree to a two tier pay system with new hires making $16.00 per hour while their more senior counterparts earn $29.00 per hour. Federal government gives several hundred billion to the banks no strings attached because to restrict salaries or bonuses would cause the loss of talent, the same "talent" that created the financial meltdown. Now, Obama, or should I say O'Bush, proposes a two year pay freeze, the same program proposed by the rethugs earlier in the year. If you're working class you are sacrificed on the altar of $$$ but if you're a member of the monied class well they you're home free your pockets bulging with taxpayer largess. Does anyone see a pattern here?

[Skittles]

54. CORRECT

[MadMaddie]

59. My sister is Civil Service and she works her ass off

She is damn good at her job.

Why is it necessary to attack fellow workers?

What is the difference between Federal Workers and Private Sector Free Market workers? I will tell you, Federal Workers are protected from the bullshit that the Private Sector did to Americans. Many federal jobs CANNOT be outsourced. The Private Sector sold out Americans.....

All workers should have been shielded from the Theft of their livelihoods by Corporate Crooks.

Which group of workers will be attacked next?

One more thing....Americans fell for the Republican outsourcing is great for America, we have to be part of the world economy, companies want cheaper labor and don't want to pay healthcare costs, regulation is pushing companies overseas....It's all Bullshit! We allowed WallyMart into our towns and cities and let them destroy our small businesses.....MegaMergers went unchecked.....

[LittleBlue]

60. Their wages are where everyone else's would be if we didn't have corporate masters

bringing down real wages while increasing hours.

It's a reflection of what should have been if corporate profits and share price weren't more important than health care and combating poverty.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

67. You're going to need to fix your personal pronouns

Us? Your teabagging filthy statement in no way speaks for me. I hold your sentiment in lower regard than vomit. That's all.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

68. All this freezing of government workers is unjust

[SidDithers]

73. K&R...

Good post.

Sid

[AndrewP]

76. unrec

[Enrique]

78. why not remove all worker protections for all U.S. workers?

for example, our miners have it so easy, only 100 died this year, compared to several thousand in China. Maybe all American workers should really join the "real world". :sarcasm:

[Hello_Kitty]

80. BTW, the Republicans are busy demonizing ALL gov't workers, state and local included

Despite the recent pay cuts and furloughs and pink slips, despite in many locations having gone years without a pay raise, they're being lumped right in with the supposedly luxuriating federal workers. This is being done to raise public support for getting rid of government workers and privatizing government services. IOW, big $$$ for Republican cronies from the government trough.

Thanks for helping to catapult their propaganda. :thumbsup:

[malletgirl02]

81. Exactly

Their real goal is to privatize the government. Laying off federal workers and bring on contractors is a large part of it. They want more contractors, because the are easier to control than federal workers.