If Joe Lieberman is able to shape HCR, does that mean Obama is a 1 term president?

[LovinLife]

All of this work, and HC will look basically the same it is 2day. How exactly does that help anyone? HC was the biggest issue I had in the election and now it appears to be over.

[jefferson_dem]

1. Nope.

Sorry.

[Davis_X_Machina]

5. You're an optimist. Progressives will do to Obama in 2012...

...what evangelicals did to Dole in '96 -- not vote, and in large enough numbers to swing the election.

And they'll feel good doing it, too -- because that's what far too much progressive politics is really all about. It's social signaling by expressing a consumer preference.

[jefferson_dem]

7. I'm a realist...a pragmatist.

To pass nothing would be the biggest failure - in terms of both politics and policy. Come 2012, liberals will come around at the first whiff of Palin as nominee. Watch.

EDIT: No. I'm not (necessarily) advocating caving to that bastard Lieberman's demands.

[Davis_X_Machina]

15. Do not underestimate...

...how strong the siren song of inter-party strife can be. The neat thing from a theatrical point of view is that DU provides orchestra seats to the smash-up.

I remember the party splits in the late 60's to late 70's. Everyone hated Nixon, sure, but that wasn't a patch on the animosity between northern and southern Democrats, between urban machine ethnics and suburban goo-goos, between the last of the Old Left and the New Left...and it's happening all over again.

The Palin threat isn't remotely the centripetal force Nixon was, and he wasn't enough.

[jefferson_dem]

20. I appreciate the perspective...but there are key differences between 1968 and 2012.

In context.

1968: LBJ was forced to withdraw in disgrace. His Vietnam War policy had pissed off half the country by the Summer. Remember, Nixon actually ran anti-war ads. After RFK's assassination, the Dems were left clear party standard-bearer, no unified message, and virtually no hope. Chicago didn't help. Nixon was a known commodity and ran as a fairly popular incumbent in 1972.

2012: This time, Obama will be running as an incumbent. He is already more personally popular than his policies. Once his policies start to bear fruit - the economy will have turned around in a big way by then - his approval will climb. Palin will still be scary. Present that crazy woman and Obama on the stage and the choice will be obvious.

Instead, I predict 2012 will be more like 1984 than any other contemporary presidential contest...with Obama in the role of Reagan (shudder). It'll be "morning in America" all over. Bookmark if you like.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Not. This. Time.

If our country is destined to go to Hell in a Handbasket, I won't help it be under a DLCer type Democrat. Nope.

You're on your own.

[jenmito]

27. That poster is NOT on his own. The vast majority of Dems. are with him. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

30. So says YOU. It's no secret where your incessant and seemingly unending loyalties lie. eom

[jenmito]

49. So says the polls. Around 90% of Dems. support Obama. Keep up the demeaning posts. They

only make YOU look small.

[jefferson_dem]

34. Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[jenmito]

50. My pleasure.

:hi:

[jefferson_dem]

31. Buh bye.

:hi:

[ShortnFiery]

33. Why? I thought we were getting along famously. You voting for Kucinich in 2012 also?

:evilgrin:

[jefferson_dem]

35. If you're gonna go...go now.

If not. Stay and fight...those dastardly repugs...not each other.

PS. Kooch is a traveling clown show. Nothing more.

[ShortnFiery]

36. That's where you're WRONG. It's CORPORATE WHORES vs. POPULISTS.

Our democratic tent has become way too large and the upcoming elections should prove to be "a wake up call" for many here.

[polichick]

2. Looks like Obama is convinced that ANY bill will help him. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Oh no, who will run for the "Democrat party' now?

:rofl:

[Davis_X_Machina]

6. Dennis Kucinich. On D(K)U, the answer never changes....

...even if the question does.

[jefferson_dem]

10. When the OP used that, it should have been obvious...

Since then, concerns have been validated.

[jenmito]

4. No. He may "shape" the bill coming out of the Senate-not the final bill.

Once it gets out of the Senate and is married with the House bill, it will look different.

[LovinLife]

8. Please explain. It always seems like the Senate gets final say on any bill.

I can tell u, I remember being in the ER for 9hrs and still didn't see a doctor. I just went home and took some medicine a friend had. Definitely one of the worst experiences of my life. It's heartbreaking to see Democrats with a majority not be able to get real HCR.

[jenmito]

16. Once it gets out of the Senate and is merged with the House bill and the House

passes whatever the final bill is, the Senate has to vote on whatever the final bill is. Perhaps Harry Reid will find a way to use reconciliation to get to the final vote-I don't know. But whatever they finally vote on and pass will be better than nothing. The "no preconditions" alone would be worth it.

[Kdillard]

9. Good grief.

[grytpype]

11. No, because the crybabies are actually a small part of the Democratic coalition.

I know there's going to be a lot of :cry: :cry: :cry: going on, but most Dems understand the problem is the Senate and scumbags like Lieberman, not Obama.

You think if Little Dennis somehow got elected President, this would be turning out any better? Most Dems have more sense.

[LovinLife]

13. Sometimes I think if Obama was openly upset about thing like this, then they could be changed.

I'd rather him fail fighting for something than just caving in.

[Davis_X_Machina]

17. Love to Neddy S. and Blue Bottle and Mr & Mrs Henry Crum...

...long time no see. I don't share your optimism, though. The Party never could stand prosperity, and eternally stands ready to dissolve into internecine strife.

[ShortnFiery]

25. Newsflash: Lieberman and Obama are on the same team ... they're doing "a waltz." eom

[grytpype]

32. Go cry to Dennis.

[ShortnFiery]

37. You'll blame the progressive democrats when your people are handed their political

asses come 2010 and 2012. Why? Because you are BULLIES. That tactic doesn't work for democrats. I'd be willing to shed a few corporate blue dogs to the liberal GOP if it means that OUR PARTY PLATFORM will, once again, focus on "Working America."

[Vinca]

12. If the bill that comes out of this fiasco amounts to mandating

private insurance coverage that people can't afford, it will be very hard to convince anyone that voting for a Democrat is much different than voting for a Republican.

[FrenchieCat]

14. If Obama is a one term President,

then the Democratic party is done forever.

Cause I know for a fact, that about 80% of African Americans will sit on their hands,
rather than to go and vote for an Obama replacement, period.

You can take that to your nearest mattress (since I'm not sure if taking it to the bank means jack-shit anymore).

Since you are most likely from the other side, I'm sure you love this news,
and will do everything in your power to make it happen.

[ima_sinnic]

42. if he's a 1-term president, he has only himself to blame

do you really think that a few DU posters who don't like the idea of being forced to buy useless health insurance really have the "power to make it happen"? I think the vast majority of Americans would not bother to vote if that's the outcome of all his "effort."

[Capn Sunshine]

18. Your concern is noted

I'm really liking the thread titles from all the newly concerned "Democrats"

So thanks for that

[FrenchieCat]

44. Hello Capn!

Haven't read you in some time!

:hi:

[Capn Sunshine]

52. Hi Frenchie!

I've been avoiding DU ; it's rife with provocateurs , freeper sockpuppets, concern trolls and well meaning idiots.

Plus real life has been keeping me busy.

[janx]

53. On that note, I had better turn up the music and prepare the Liptauer.

:party:

Office party is tomorrow.

[Capn Sunshine]

54. Sorry I can't be there

Almost took an offer from a company based in Santa Fe last month btw

[janx]

55. Noooo!

I beg you to reconsider! It's cold out right now though, and I must prepare the Liptauer after going in search of some chardonnay.

I wish that you and your fam could come to New Mexico.

[Capn Sunshine]

56. we're around 40k apart

its not dead yet.

[Cha]

45. Thanks, Capn' for pointing out the obvious!

B-)

[jenmito]

19. What's with you using the RW term the "Democrat party"?

LovinLife Tue Dec-08-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. SMH. I didn't even know I replied to u. I thought I was talking to the other guy. U just jumped in

out of the blue. We are so divided. Its so clear. DU is the perfect example of what's happening within the Democrat party. I am no your enemy. Its sad don't get that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=44558#44608

[Cha]

51. Without checking the link I

recognize that exchange.

That's what the repukes call us.."the democrat party". Maybe the OP has heard it so much on tv she just automatically calls us that?:shrug:

:hi:Jen:)

[Robbins]

21. No

However Inless the economy Is looking much better come November 2010 Pelosi will handing over the
speaker job to Republican.Reid,Dodd and possibly Bennent and Lincoln(although with her not a big loss)
will be In retirement.If Republicans take the House In 2010 Obama will easily be reelected In 2012.
Gingrich becoming speaker after 1994 helped reelect Clinton In 1996.

[ShortnFiery]

22. Yes. President Obama may be as smooth as Bill Clinton but "the jig is up."

We all NOW fully realize that "New Democrats" are for CORPORATIONS first and foremost. They don't represent the wage slave American ... not at all.

One Term Presidency? You've got that right! :grr:

[Aramchek]

24. FAIL

[ShortnFiery]

26. That's the best you have?

Not even a personal insult to drive it home? I'm disappointed. :evilgrin:

[ima_sinnic]

38. exactly so

despite the cheerleader sycophant protestations to the contrary.
As I ask below, what EXACTLY has Obama done to advance affordable, accessible health care for We The People?

[Undercurrent]

39. A loaded phrase.

The idiom "the jig is up":
Refers to a ruse or trick that has been discovered. The game is over, the time of reckoning is here.

Interesting that you think Obama has tricked you. Also interesting that you chose to use the word "jig", a racial slur.

"jig":
short for jig****

Not accusing you of racism. I have no earthly idea what is in your heart. The word stuck out to me, and I found it's use interesting.

[firedupdem]

43. loaded indeed. n/t

[Undercurrent]

48. Yes.

It's not that I am particularly thin skinned, although my ex husband was called a "spear chucker", a jig****, and of course the N word by my first husband's uber rich, and deeply racist father. But I am tuned in to racial slurs, not because I'm a person of color, but because I was married to a black man. When it happens to someone you love, you feel it too.

[WI_DEM]

28. Was Clinton a one-term president.

[ima_sinnic]

29. what EXACTLY has Obama done to advance real & affordable health care options for citizens?

First he said "everybody would be included" in the "health care discussion," but where was he when Max Baucus was having coffee and chatting with health insurers in closed-door hearings that undoubtedly ended up making him even wealthier than he was before? When doctors and nurses were thrown out of those hearings for having the audacity to endorse single-payer?

Where exactly has he been during any of this process?

If this were 1963, the Civil Rights Act would NOT pass. That took the hard work and influence of a strong president, LBJ, breathing down people's necks, making deals, and doing whatever those people on Capitol Hill do to get their legislation passed. What was "Obama's legislation" in this matter? He started with a compromise of some vague idea of a "public option" with no specifics at all, which has now withered to just about nothing--but HOORAY! health insurers' profits are intact, and so are wealthy greed-head assholes' bank accounts--their taxes will never be raised by this procorporate administration that couldn't give a rat's ass about We The People.

So Obama has seemed entirely irrelevant to the joke called a "health care debate." We already know how it's going to end up--and if you think YOU are going to benefit, I have the REAL Kenyan birth certificate for sale, cheap. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if he's one or two terms, he isn't my president anymore, he's the president of Wall ST.

on edit: oh, how could I forget? HOORAY for big pharma, which has been assured of endless profits from their monopoly on overpriced, undertested and possibly dangerous drugs in "secret deals" with Obama!

[ima_sinnic]

41. this was not a rhetorical question, yet I hear *crickets*

-- if Obama is a 1-term president, he has only HIMSELF to blame

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

40. No, it means Joe Lieberman is a one term president

[damntexdem]

46. No, if that happens, it means that LIEberman is the de facto president.

If it happens, whether Obama has one or two terms will be basically irrelevant, at least to me.

[Cleita]

47. Well, somebody did call him President Lieberman today on the radio.n/t

[iceman66]

57. I'm sure that's the plan!

[budkin]

58. As long as Sarah Palin is the Puke nominee he has nothing to worry about