I Am An FDR Democrat

[WiffenPoof]

I do not plan on changing those principles at whatever cost. I will not abandon the essence of our party any more than I would abandon the essence of who I am. Sacrificing my convictions in the name of bipartisanship will move the bar in a direction that insults those who came before us. It is not an option.

-PLA

[Uben]

1. That's you're right.

I'm not saying you are right, just that you have the right to believe in it, just as others have a right to believe what they think is best for ourselves and our country. That's why it's mostly a "majority rules" society, with emphasis on the word "mostly".

[SidDithers]

2. You want Japanese Americans rounded up and put into internment camps?...nt

Sid

[WiffenPoof]

3. What do YOU think?

So do you think that FDR didn't make ANY mistakes?

[WiffenPoof]

6. A Quote From...

"The Wild Bunch" (1969)

Pike Bishop: We're not gonna get rid of anybody! We're gonna stick together, just like it used to be! When you side with a man, you stay with him! And if you can't do that, you're like some animal, you're finished! *We're* finished! All of us!

[HeroTwins]

10. it seems like it is you who think FDR was infallable.

[Enthusiast]

46. No one said infallible.

But name a better president in the 20th or 21st century. Don't feel ashamed, go ahead, you can say Ronald Reagan.

[SidDithers]

11. I don't think that FDR was nearly the progressive hero that many here make him out to be...

That one of the most heinous episodes in American history has to be completely ignored in order to put FDR on the progressive pedestal, is indicative on just how selective people are in evaluations.

If FDR was President today, and was rounding up and imprisoning Iraqi-Americans, or Afghani-Americans, how do you think the progressive blogsphere would be reacting? Greenwald would be praising his actions? FDL would be cheering for his initiative?

FDR, like President's before and after him was a flawed human being. He did some very good things and he did some very bad things. He should be judged on the entirety of his actions, not on only the select few actions that so-called progressive like.

Sid

[Bluenorthwest]

42. Have you ever spoken to anyone who was in one of those

camps? Just curious. Not many moved to Toronto. And of course, Obama is opposed to equal rights for minorities he does not like, no national defense excuse at all, just pure, dogmatic bigotry. He claims, openly, that straight people are-get this-'Sanctified by God' and others are not, he claims to know this, he does not say if the being speaks to him audibly or what. He has employed as surrogate 'ministers' who call for war against gay people, Sid, they say the gloves are off, they say gay people kill children, and Obama sees that as suitable language for his personal surrogate.
And for what? To serve 'faith' which is outside a President's job description? What's he get from his raving prejudices against Amerians he says should never have equal rights, not for the duration of a war, but never, ever, ever. Because, he says God is in the mix.
And that is the whole of who he is, of course. That's all there is. Evangelical Dogma.

[stevenleser]

58. There are plenty of books that describe the experience.

http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-Manzanar-Japanese-Experience-Internment/dp/0553272586

[Trajan]

7. While that did occur ...

I dont find that to be a hallmark of New Deal legislation ....

That was the mindset of the same hateful, fearful populace that now promotes Obama and his supporters as communists ....

Same people then ... same people now .... Where do you stand ?

[Enthusiast]

45. Why even say that?

Why say that at all. No presidency is without error but FDR is a Democratic icon. What is your motive?

[Trajan]

4. I too am an FDR Democrat ...

And a JFK Democrat too ...

I resent any Democrat who falls in line with Republicans to gut the New Deal, and kill the middle class along with the New Deal legacy ...

[ProSense]

5. FDR was a great President. Do

you consider any of theses policies and as these abandoning those principles:

Obama signs veterans, caregivers legislation

Health Reform Expands Medicaid Coverage For People with Disabilities

Expand Pell grants for low-income students

Providing Free Preventive Care for Seniors.


Which of them are you against?

[WiffenPoof]

8. Thank You ProSense

Keep reminding us that President Obama has held to "some" progressive ideals

-PLA

[stevenleser]

59. Just like FDR held to "some" progressive ideas and was regressive in others n/t

[HeroTwins]

9. were you alive when FDR was President?

if not, then you don't really know what it was like back then.

You are viewing the past with the rosiest of glasses.

It wasn't all Social Security and Medicare back then. There was plenty of shit to be mad about, as well.

Just ask the Japanese Americans.

[WiffenPoof]

14. Of course, there was plenty...

to be mad about. There is in every era. However, there is no doubt in my mind that we were more dedicated to Democratic principles than we are today.

As for Japanese Americans...FDR was not perfect. Nor are any of us.

-PLA

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

47. Yes!

A Republican alternative To FDR would have been far better!

[Unvanguard]

12. So you support alliances with Southern racists and interning Japanese-Americans?

Somehow I doubt it.

There was no great leftist Democratic Party somewhere back in the past. Even keeping to economics, FDR was criticized vociferously by the Left of his time: ask Norman Thomas...

[WiffenPoof]

16. Okay...You are all correct...

FDR was a horrible president. What was I thinking?

[Unvanguard]

17. I didn't say that. But, then, I don't think Obama is a horrible president either.

I just think yearning for the "good old days" of liberal purity is silly. Even aside from not being constructive, it also requires ignorance of history.

[WiffenPoof]

19. Good Old Days???

I am asking that we do NOT abandon the essential planks and principles that made us the "party of the people." I don't care if that happened yesterday or 70 years ago. It is our adherence to Dem principles that should rise above all else.

-PLA

[Unvanguard]

22. The Democratic Party has not abandoned those principles as they ever have actually existed.

Just as certain people imagine them to have.

In a few decades, no doubt people will criticize Democratic presidents for not having the progressive spirit of Barack Obama.

[WiffenPoof]

25. There is little doubt...

that the Dem ideal never existed and it never will. However, the ideal exists in our mind's eye as a target that we should never take our eyes off of.

-PLA

[dotymed]

18. FDR was not about "being leftist."

He was a Progressive American. He pushed a second bill of rights. We didn't get it, he died, but the allied countries that we helped rebuild did get it. Even though (surprisingly?) some people like to bring up the worst of, the best President we ever had, IMO, even his terrible legacies pale in comparison to the last 30 years.

[Recursion]

39. Just in terms of the language, it was Hoover who was "Progressive"

He was, in fact, the last Progressive president and the last President of the Progressive Era. Current political fault lines don't really map well to the past, even only a couple of generations ago.

[DissedByBush]

31. The racist deal was sad, but necessary

He never would have gotten the New Deal without them.

But otherwise his record towards minorities (Japanese excepted of course) was pretty good.

[dotymed]

13. Obviously, FDR is my ideal, and yes he was not perfect.

Sadly, It is obvious that we have become a country with no political choice. It is now vote for the corporatist candidate or the corporatist candidate....is that a choice? Hell, it's not even "the lesser of two evils." Now, I (sadly) long for the days of "the lesser evil."
Will we ever take our country back?

[Unvanguard]

15. So you are indifferent between Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner?

Um, interesting...

[WiffenPoof]

20. Of Course Not....n/t

[Unvanguard]

23. I'm glad, but I wasn't replying to you. n/t

[WiffenPoof]

24. Oooops Sorry about that. n/t

[dotymed]

26. Personally, yes, a thousand times.

Politically? After all is said and done, the legislation always ends up pro-corporation/elite.....IMO, very sad but true.
Never any "room at the table" for the needs of the majority.

[Recursion]

40. Just curious: are you saying FDR was not "corporatist"? (nt)

[Peace Patriot]

21. K&R! Thanks for saying it! You speak for me! nt

[lumpy]

29. Hear hear

v

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JamesA1102]

28. So you're OK with segregation and

the internment of American citizens based on their ethnic origins.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JamesA1102]

33. Never said I was so don't put words in my mouth

And my question was for the OP, not you. So if someone is going to embrace FDR's legacy, they have to embrace all of it and acknowledge he wasn't perfect.

[WiffenPoof]

34. Well...

If you read the entire thread, you will note that I don't think anyone is perfect...not even FDR. The point of my post is to support the essential principles of our party...to never abandon what has made our party "the party of the people."

_PLA

[JamesA1102]

35. So who is abandoning them?

[Enthusiast]

49. Thank you and PLUS ONE! nt

[vrp]

30. FDR was our greatest President!

I'm with you! In my view the principles of the New Deal should be the lasting legacy of the Democratic Party. FDR was a progressive and considered a traitor to his class, and we have FDR to thank for the end of the great depression. The reason our current crises wasn't as bad as it could have been was because of the safeguards that were put in place when FDR was POTUS. A common thread of discussion has it that FDR was pushed into the progressive position that became his legacy: Not true! He entered the presidency with the framework of the new deal plotted out.

As for his biggest mistakes: First was the court packing scheme, which didn't even have the support of his own party. Huge mistake, and ill advised. Second was his scheme to purge the party the southern racists known as the Dixiecrats, and even campaigned against them. Good idea, but again it didn't have the support of the party and pretty much blew up in his face. As an addendum, Humphrey succeeded where FDR failed merely ten years later with the civil rights plank during the 1948 democratic convention, which effectively drove most of the hardcore racists out of the party. Good riddance, and don't let the door it you're ass on the way out!!

Third, and most famous, was the Japanese internment of 1942. It probably doesn't matter, but it wasn't FDR's idea. But, what does matter, he signed off on it and it became an executive order. Yes it was wrong, yes it was the black eye of his presidency, and yes, it was founded on racism.

FDR, I believe, in spite of his errors, was our greatest president, and one we democrats should emulate today. His policies were sound, they worked, and we should work to resurrect them.

For those interested, I recommend Jean Edward Smith's biography of FDR, which is the most recent, and the most readable. Also one of the shortest at around 600 pages.

[Enthusiast]

50. I'm with you, vrp.

Welcome to the DU. I hope we will hear more from you as some continue to try to undermine the legacy of FDR and the New Deal.

[boppers]

36. He was a product of his times.

He also did quite a bit of sacrificing in the name of bipartisanship, historical revisionism notwithstanding.

Would you consider slashing all government pensions and wages? How about bailing out troubled banks? Both were FDR policies.

Then there's this advisor of his:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Moley

[Odin2005]

37. K&R

[EndElectoral]

38. Excellent post.

[MannyGoldstein]

43. Other than saving America, then saving the planet

and fighting for working Americans..

He was awful.

[Enthusiast]

44. K&R. I am with you.

If we adopt the Republican ideology, like attacking organized labor, dismantling the social safety net, deregulation and outsourcing, we are dead as a party.

This has probably been the plan all along. The GOP can't win at the ballot in the long term due to shifting demographics so this is an alternative to second amendment remedies.

[Stoic]

51. I am, too.

A FDR Democrat is what I think of when I think of the Democratic Party. The current leadership are nothing but corporatist D.I.N.O.s. Yeah, him too.

[mkultra]

52. if you really are, then you would know that FDR made many compromises

In fact, his big bill tried to include many things that he had to remove in order ot get it to pass including jobs provision and national health care. In actuality, FDR failed to implement full HCR before Obama even tried.

Placing old age pension in the hands of the federal government was also a compromise as he wanted that power left to the states. He was against federally managed systems of welfare including UI.


Sorry to burts your "uncompromising bubble" but again, nothing great in America is the result of partisanship.

[WiffenPoof]

56. I'm Sure That You Would Agree...

that the Republican Party has been about as partisan as they come. How would you combat this strategy? Should we not be partisan...or have our recent methods of giving into their "partisan agenda" worked out well for us?

-PLA

[mkultra]

57. well, consider the 60 vote cloture rule

making deals becomes a neccesity. I would say that our methods have met with as much success as is possible and that all the idle talk of "standing your ground" or using the bully pulpit would just bring ALL progress to a screeching halt.

[WiffenPoof]

60. Well...

...you must have a tighter grasp on the pulse of both the people and politics than I do.

It always impressed me that President Bush was able to accomplish a great deal of his (and the RW's) agenda which was (and still is) partisan driven. There was little or no compromise on his part throughout his two terms. It seems to me that having one side that is dedicated to bipartisanship while the other is pushing through its agenda with little or no regard for the opposition is not a winning strategy.

Now, perhaps you are not interested in adhering to the principles of the Democratic Party. And that's okay...that is your right (and your obligation to yourself). Perhaps you side with the "new" Democrats that find it more beneficial to "make nice" with those that have nearly brought this country to ruin in hopes of incremental progress.

As for myself, principles represent the deepest part of our being. It is what makes us who we are. To simply let those principles go for the sake of bipartisanship goes against everything that I am.

While perfection is not achievable, I would like to know what purpose these principles serve if not to set a standard by which we can all strive for.

-PLA

[mkultra]

61. "what purpose these principles serve if not to set a standard by which we can all strive for"

Simply put, the only purpose of those principles is to serve man. If your principles are basically about self edification, then standing on them would seem the only plausible option.

The reality of the circumstance is that congress is composed of many people. And while Republicans stand on their principles for the sake of self edification, progressives tend to be more interested in accomplishing progress. The net result is that republicans will vote blindly as a block while democrats will vote for each item they see as a move in the right direction.

That being said, it should be clear why Republicans are more successful in regard to grinding out legislation. They hash out the platform first and then stick to whatever comes out of the process, albeit blindly. If we are in control, they will stand against us as a block while we will still bicker and fight over our individual interests. If they are in control, its easy for them to break off small pieces of our caucus to accomplish their goals.

So it sounds like you need to decide what your principles really are. If you are into standing up and fighting, then you should be fighting right next to the president and the democrats in congress instead of continuing to bicker about what our path is because that part of the program has already been determined during the primary process. Now our goals are to get as much of that platform accomplished as possible. When it comes to those millions of unemployed, if you say you would rather they go without UI than see the rich get a 3% tax decrease, then i say your principles need to be reevaluated.

[bvar22]

53. Mainstream FDR/LBJ DEMOCRAT here!

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Americas own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."--FDR

THAT is the Democratic Party I joined 44 years ago.
I would Go to the Wall for THAT Democratic Party.
...today's Centrist "New Democrat" Party?...not so much.

---bvar22
Formerly a Center, Mainstream, Pro-Working Class FDR/LBJ Democrat,
now relegated to the fringe "Left Wing" of the "New Democrat Party".
I haven't changed.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone


"By their works, you will know them."

[WiffenPoof]

55. Thanks For Posting This...

I've posted this second bill of economic rights many times here. It is worth reading and adhering to.

-PLA

[mikekohr]

54. FDR, JFK, RFK, BHO, Democrat here