The "Obama is going to cut SS" crap strikes me as the same as "Obama is going to make death panels"

[Godhumor]

On reflection of how the past few weeks played out.

Say what you want about the deficit commission or who he talked to, but the talk of cutting social security in tonight's address had as much basis in fact as every other hysterical claim made in the past 2 years. The only difference, in my opinion, is this one started on the sensible left and got away from everyone instead of on the loony right (Who I still feel that if Obama showed how the world was round would insist that it is actually flat.).

I disagree with Obama on plenty, but until a democratic president stands up and proclaims that he or she is going to gut social security "for reals", I think the benefit of the doubt is in order.

[DrDan]

1. he didn't say "gut" - but certainly did say that "modest" changes were needed

call it crap all you like - but it appears he supports some level of change.

[Sheepshank]

24. And changes in fraud and efficiency are always good

but of course that's not the change debbie downers would like to focus on....

[DrDan]

42. link please where "fraud and efficiency" are the target

does "efficiency" include raising the age of retirement?

Should not need legislation to deal with fraud - right?

[Kweli4Real]

48. Has it ever occurred to you ...

That the "modest" changes that PRESIDENT Obama was referring to might, just might be, increasing the cap, or changing the S.S. funding formula to capture all income, or maybe even a LOWERING of the age and paying for it with a substantial tax increase on $1,000,000 filers?

All of these would be "modest" changes of the S.S. system ... No?

[DrDan]

49. no doubt about it - and would love to see an increase in the cap

lowering the age will not happen

I never said anything except that Obama has suggested that modest changes are needed - I never have speculated beyond that. That is enough to bring out the fangs of the ardent supporters.

[rfranklin]

2. Yeah, that Deficit Commission was just like the Gun Ban Commission...

I can see they are exactly the same!

[Godhumor]

3. Hysteria is hysteria

In the case of SS, the appointment of a non-binding commission was used to justify it.

The right just doesn't bother to find a reason to justify it.

[mkultra]

4. OBAMA IS A MUSLIN

NAZI SOCIALIST WHO WANTS TO CUT SOCIAL SECURITY......AND HES BLACK!!
:sarcasm:

[impik]

5. More like "Obama is going to kill grandma". There's not different between the crazy of both sides

[Godhumor]

8. Ooh, I like that. Mind if I edit it into my OP?

Fits better.

For anyone wondering after the edit, I compared the SS crap to "Obama is taking your guns" meme.

[KeepItReal]

6. if the "hysterical claim" takes Social Security off the table, I'm cool with that

Looking at Obama's team, to think they wouldn't try to cut benefits or raise the retirement age is giving them too much trust.

[ClassWarrior]

16. Exactly. This is exactly why progressives shouldn't just shut up and hope. Because the President...

...NEEDS to hear our voices. If these are unfounded rumors, no harm, no foul. But if they're not, I want him to know my mind.

NGU.

[JoePhilly]

47. The reason you leave Social Security "on the (nonexistant) table" ...

Is to force the GOP to be specific about what their intent is. When SS is OFF the nonexistent table, the GOP snipes around the edges of it.

The GOP does not want to propose actual cuts to SS. They simply want to complain about it.

Leaving it on the table forces them to describe EXACTLY what cuts they want to make. And that is the LAST thing they want to do.

[Clio the Leo]

7. thank you! nt

[Pirate Smile]

9. It is really irritating to see some of President Obama's critics on the left side using

some of the same bogus methods of pushing constant BS that the crazy RW uses.

It diminishes their credibility on everything so that even when they have valid gripes, you view their arguments with skepticism or default dismissal.

The "Cry Wolf" Syndrome has been in place for a bunch of them for quite a while already.

edit to add - Olbermann reached this point with me back during the HCR fight when he opened a show one night saying that the President was abandoning the elimination of pre-existing conditions as a reason for insurance companies to exclude people from coverage. I'd been watching and reading the news all day and knew that was total crap. I stopped DVR'ing his show and, from that point on, if I heard something on his show that I had not already read or seen sourced, I would look for additional reporting on the issue before I'd believe it. I would still watch his show sometimes but I would never give it as much credibility as a news source as I had done previously.

[boston bean]

10. It isn't at all like Obama supports a PO?? Or Obama would never extend the Bush tax cuts?? nt

[ClassWarrior]

12. Jinx.

:D

NGU.

[salinen]

21. xactly

Whatever Wall street wants, Wall street gets.

[ClassWarrior]

11. Actually, it strikes me more like "Obama's going to abandon the public option" and "Obama's..."

"...gonna extend the Bush** tax handouts to the uber-wealthy."

Just sayin.

NGU.

[woo me with science]

13. This is exactly why it is important to demand a clear statement in the SOTU speech tonight.

It does not mean a damned thing if he does not ENDORSE SS cuts or changes in the retirement age.

He needs to be clear about TAKING THEM OFF THE TABLE.

[ClassWarrior]

14. Yeah, that'd be the easiest - and smartest - thing for him to do.

You should start a thread.

NGU.

[grahamhgreen]

25. Really, he needs to raise the cap, as he said in the campaign. The vast majority supports this.

[eridani]

30. + 1000 n/t

[Enrique]

15. he would never do those things

it would be political suicide. ;-)

[woo me with science]

40. +1 nt

[harun]

17. Sorry but you are delusional and in denial if you don't think Obama will not

be cutting SS.

Everything that doesn't directly improve corporate profits is "on the table".

[Godhumor]

18. But will he announce cuts tonight like people are insisting? Nope.

So now it is, "well he's going to do it some time in the future."

It is outrage for the sake of outrage with zero hard evidence to support it.

[jefferson_dem]

19. yup.

it's sick, really.

[jberryhill]

20. Obama has NEVER said he wouldn't kick my dog

If he's not planning to kick my dog, then I expect a clear statement in the speech tonight.

[Godhumor]

27. "America, I hate the dog. I really do." n/t

[woo me with science]

34. Has there been great uncertainty in the country and on the editorial pages

about whether he will kick your dog?

He knows there is great lack of clarity right now about whether SS is on the table for negotiation. The SOTU is exactly the place and time for him to clearly demolish any unfounded rumors.

Like it or not, if he does NOT take a stand tonight, it is a very bad sign.

[jberryhill]

44. I read about it on DU

I don't depend on the MSM to tell me what to worry about.

I agree, without a stand on whether he is going to kick my dog, it is a bad sign.

What you won't get from Barack Obama - ever - is a categorical statement to the effect of "I refuse to discuss X".

And people have had all kinds of merry fun with that aspect of the way that he approaches the job of governing.

[woo me with science]

45. Yeah, he didn't make a categorical statement about a public option & tax cuts for the rich either.

Oh wait...

[Moral_Imagination]

46. Yup... The fact that we even have to discuss this issue....

... proves what dog hater Obama is.

[Sheepshank]

22. Except the meme has been coming from the left (in appearance)

It's this very comparison that makes me wonder if the talking points are really coming from Dems or the wolf in sheeps clothing?

I personally wonder if those who have been screeching the loudest that Obama has never actually said the words he won't fuck with cutting Social Security, will admit they jumped the shark.


Nah, that would never happen

[ClassWarrior]

26. Orrrrrrrr... are the wolves in sheeps' clothing trying to tamp down our concerns so that...

...Obama doesn't hear our voices calling for him to take Social Security off the table?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

:scratchingmychin:

NGU.

[Sheepshank]

33. Huge Huge difference in activism vs. spreading lies

I absolutely agree that Progressives need a voice and need to make themselves heard. And need to make sure the WH knows what they want.

But, what completely aggravates me, is the constant and repeated lies that Obama will be gutting SS, raising the age etc etc. That is not activism and the whine and lies simple get filtered out.

[ClassWarrior]

36. Huge, huge difference in activism and telling people to shut up and sit down because you're...

...paranoid about their motives.

:shrug:

NGU.

[Sheepshank]

37. On this point I disagree

Being told to keep on topic to the issues at hand, applies and has been applied to those spreading the lies and hysteria that death panels will be invoked, that there will be cuts to ss etc. Has not been applied to true activism. And I think you are just trying to argue now rather than admit that spreading the "Obama will cut ss" lies isn't a way to promote activism.

[ClassWarrior]

38. I never invoke "STFU." I believe in the First Amendment. And I'm not afraid to defend my values.

:patriot:

I know that progressive values are the best American values.

NGU.

[Sheepshank]

39. First, when did Obama invoke STFU

and second, I figured you'd protect the spread of lies and a valid form of activism..

[ClassWarrior]

41. YOU invoked, and I quote, "stfu" - then you went back and edited your post.

Not fair.

:rofl:

NGU.

[Sheepshank]

50. Note that was never part of the edit

but you know what...if it makes you feel better...then go for it.

my STFU, was a visceral equivalency to "shut up and sit down".

[grahamhgreen]

23. He did cut SS. When he cut the FICA tax it reduced the the length of time SS will be able to pay out

However, I strongly applaud his decision not to cut it further in the SOTU.

Next step - raise the cap, as he stated in the campaign, it's a no-brainer.

Then tax the rich and end the wars to end our debt.

Simple.

[Dawgs]

28. +1. Why this isn't pointed out more often is surprising.

:hi:

[ProSense]

32. No

he didn't. From the bill:

<...>

"(1) TRANSFERS TO FEDERAL OLD-AGE AND SURVIVORS INSURANCE TRUST FUND.—There are hereby appropriated to the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund established under section 201 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 401) amounts equal to the reduction in revenues to the Treasury by reason of the application of subsection (a). Amounts appropriated by the pre- ceding sentence shall be transferred from the general fund at such times and in such manner as to replicate to the extent possible the transfers which would have occurred to such Trust Fund had such amendments not been enacted."

PDF

Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance Trust Funds Receipts

[grahamhgreen]

43. This would only work if one assumes that

this money given or loaned to SS will never have to be paid back.

The general fund currently owes SS hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars.

Now the general fund is giving or loaning SS money.

The most likely scenario is that the Republicans will insist that the money coming from the general fund and going into SS be considered repayment of past debt, therefore this is likely to result in lost revenues for SS.

[DirkGently]

29. How do you interpret Obama's comments to NPR re: SS is "most of" the problem with "the deficit?"

OBAMA: Actually, I think that if you talk to economists, both conservative and liberal, what they'll say is the problem is not next year. The problem is, how are we dealing with our medium-term debt and deficit, and how are we dealing with our long-term debt and deficit? And most of that has to do with entitlements, particularly Social Security and Medicaid

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/10/131949362/transcript-obam...

The issue is not whether Obama mentions cutting SS in tonight's address. Reports now indicate that is not the case, although when the issue was first raised, there was no response.

The question is why the President seems to have adopted the false narrative that Social Security is part of spending and deficit "problems" that Republicans discuss as though they were the cause of the current economic crisis, although they are not.

[grahamhgreen]

31. Taxing the rich and cutting the military can end our debt and deficit in 10 years.

[DirkGently]

51. Seems almost reasonable, doesn't it?

[Godhumor]

35. He talked about the cost curve immediately after that statement

That's not saying he is going to cut social security. To borrow busienss-jargon, he is saying that the management of SS and medicaid is the larger issue, and that a value add is not in reducing benefits but cost. A cost curve is dealing with looking at value for cost (overly simplified explanation is that the difference between cost and benefit lessens as cost increases and production falls).

[AlinPA]

52. I never saw any announcement by him on cutting SS.