Let's kill the bill and

[ProSense]

party like it's 1994:

Clinton's health care bill was declared dead in August 1994, only a few months before the midterm elections.

Obama is on track to pass health care this year.

Let's kill the bill, and then follow the same path as in 1994, debating health care right up to the election.

[Clio the Leo]

1. I'd be interested to know.....

.... the average age of those who want the bill killed.

I'm not speculating one way or the other, I'm legitimately curious.

Folks are either young or forgetful.

[Honeycombe8]

3. I'm 56. Howard Dean is, I guess, about 50? We regretfully think the bill should be killed. nt

[Clio the Leo]

5. So you dont remember 1994?

you have 20 years on me, so you probably remember it better than I do ..... is there another reason why you think that things will be different this time?

(that's a serious question)

[Honeycombe8]

11. Ah, yes. I remember it well. What do you want to know? nt

[Clio the Leo]

13. Interesting article...

.... that I'll probably make an OP of tomorrow..

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_lessons_of_94

[kysrsoze]

15. I'm 40, and what remains of this bill is just a piece of garbage. Kill it.

It's shameful to see what healthcare reform has already turned into. By the time it's passed, if it is, it'll probably be almost worthless.

[cali]

19. Howard is 61. I'm sure he'd be flattered. n/t

[Ozymanithrax]

2. Very, Very good.

But 1994 was a bad year for me. Along with everything else, I came home from a six month deployment and found my wife engaged to be married to a close friend of mine. I lost both of them.

So I would rather not relive 1994.

[Honeycombe8]

4. You're not saying you think Bush won in 2000 because of health care, are you?

I can tell you why Bush won: Monica Lewinsky.

[ProSense]

6. Excuse me while I try to make

the huge leap from 1994 to 2000.

[Clio the Leo]

8. Not so much Bush in '00.....

.... but Newt in '94.

(lol and during these last few days with Lieberman, I'm actually feeling LESS bad about the Gore debacle .... dont get me wrong, it was still bad .... but not as bad as I thought lol)

[Honeycombe8]

9. Oh, when the Repubs took back control of Congress? That wasn't about health care at all.

As far as I recall. The Clinton health care attempt was total failure. Not even a glimmer of hope. It was a flash in the pan. Forgotten not long afterward, as it was destined to be once the President gave it to his WIFE to draft. Sure, she's educated and savvy and SOS NOW, but remember...at the time, she was the First Lady, and nothing more (to most people).

Newt's "contract" with America had to do with morals, and because the Republicans had a true hatred toward Clinton, for some reason. This rallied the conservative masses.

The Dems will lose seats in 2010, regardless of what they do or don't do. But with a bill that forces everyone to give money to big insurance companies, they are certain to lose MORE seats. If there's something America hates, it's a government that forces them to give their hard earned money to fat cats.

Wanna bet that the HCR bill ALSO will tax the average employee for his/her health benefits? If it does, say bye-bye to the Dems in Congress. (I think that's probably in teh bill because that's what the Republicans want...and they are getting pretty much everything they want.)

[Writer]

7. Ugh! That's what I hope more DU'ers would understand...

this is it. I mean, this is our shot. If we fail here, neither the President nor Congress will have enough political capital to try this again. And there will be EXTENSIVE fatigue among voters. We don't get a redo; we either do or die.

[ezgoingrl]

10. But passing "something" at the cost of passing a good bill that

help people is not what we should do. Saying we can go back later and fix it isn't the answer, either. I've never seen Congress fix go back and fix something. We can't have the bill as it stands for 10 or 20 years when the next opportunity arises to fix this monstrosity.

[LooseWilly]

12. So make the Republicans filibuster for real.

Put the public option and Medicare buy in back in... and make them filibuster.

The Lieberman Health Care Reform isn't worth passing... so let it get killed in a public show... with the Democrats putting up a fight to get it through. That's not what happened in 1994... so maybe this will change the "time parallel imperative" theoretical axiom that you are presupposing?!?!

Or maybe you are making an extrapolation that is not necessarily valid, and trying to thereby convince those of us that the Lieberman Reform will screw over to turn off our brains and do as you say...

[Clio the Leo]

14. You do realize how long they filibustered Jim Crow .....

.... and that wasn't even the fake "everyone can go home at five" filibuster we have now.

Now, if they went on long enough, the bill would be tabled, never to rise again (as it did in '93.)

[rockymountaindem]

16. Making the Republicans fillibuster a good bill puts the onus on THEM

It will make the public see that it's the Republicans who are against real reform in a highly visible way. It will make them go on TV for a long period of time and argue against specific ideas (public option) that a large majority of the American people support.

Not making them actually filibuster a good bill is a double victory for the Republicans. It puts the onus on us to compromise away practically everything to get a bill 60 Senators can support, and it makes us look bad for leaving very little except policies that a majority of Americans are against (individual mandates).

The Republicans filibustered in favor of Jim Crow for a long time. Mr. Crow still wasn't long for this earth, the grandstanding of Strom Thurmond notwithstanding. That's actually a piece of history we'd do well to repeat, come to think of it.

[lamp_shade]

17. K&R

[AllentownJake]

18. Your shilling is falling on deaf ears

The battle has been lost by a weak President unwilling to lead and by a weak congress unwilling to reform.

The democrats had the benefit of George W. Bush for 8 years. They made a lot of promises in 2006 and 2008. They seem to have an inability to implement anything substantive when it comes to fixing the damage done of 30 years of corporatism from both sides of the aisle.

He has made his bed and chosen his bride, he may now sleep with her, I'll be waiting for 2012, when in a primary, no matter what, I cast my vote for someone other than him.