I have to ask again--how does the Public Option pass?

[WI_DEM]

A lot of complaining (some deserved) about Obama, but how does the Public Option pass? When we got 4 Democratic Senators who join with the GOP to stop any strong health care bill. What is the solution? How would Dennis Kucinich have gotten it passed or a stronger plan? How would he have gotten Lieberman to go along with him--or Nelson or Landreau???

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. At this point, or in the big picture?

In the big picture we could have secured these votes by starting off by making siding with pugs the equivalent of siding with NAMBLA.

But we didn't.

"When you have a big numerical advantage you polarize because when you force the question people will flock to the winning side. Ben Nelson probably wouldn't want to vote (publicly) with the American Nazi Party but there's no real downside to him voting with the respectable opposition, is there?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x63657

[janx]

2. That's precisely the problem.

There is a handful of senators with far too much power. I'm not complaining about Obama (except that I think he might want to look at some of those around him). It's these senators that are preventing reform.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. I posted this as an OP yesterday but it fits here

Step One: The Democratic leadership should announce right now that they will prepare separate deficit reducing health care reform legislation expanding the government role in providing health insurance to our citizens which will be pursued using the Reconciliation process in the Senate, since it will reduce the federal deficit. That of course only requires 50 votes plus Biden to pass the Senate.

Step Two: The Democratic leadership should inform self described moderate Senators that they fully expect their support on a cloture vote for the current separate private health care insurance reform act currently being finalized in the Senate. In return for that support their legitimate concerns will be listened to and taken into consideration in finalizing the details of the expanded government role in health care that will be pursued through Reconciliation. However should the current legislation be blocked in the Senate, that deal will be taken off the table and the Democratic leadership will feel free to craft and draft a Reconciliation proposal greatly expanding the public role without their input - since without winning passage of the private insurance controls and reforms contained in the bill currently under consideration, it will be necessary to create a very robust public health insurance system as competition to force private insurers to operate in the public interest.

Then dare them to filibuster knowing they face certain extreme consequences (from a Lieberman perspective) if they succeed with that filibuster - they will lose any influence they might otherwise might have been given in designing the new health care system in America.

If Democrats played that kind of hard ball I suspect Lieberman would consider being a co-sponser of the compromise he now says he will filibuster (if his ego allowed it). Bottom line; let obstructionists chose between implementing the negotiated compromise that they wrung out of Democrats in negotiations, through Reconciliation instead, or stand back and watch Democrats implement a much stronger government plan with 50 votes without them.

[uponit7771]

9. Step Three: Reid and Lieberman tell Obama to fuck off because he can't make them do anything...next?

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. So now you have Reid and Lieberman working as a team...

I think it is more likely that Reid and Obama would work as a team IF Obama made it clear that he supported reconciliation. The problem is that Obama seems to have made it pretty clear that he doesn't so far, and Reid won't openly cross a popular President from his own Party on a signature issue of his. I say the ball is in Obama's court.

[Better Believe It]

4. You make the Republicans filibuster and when they run out of gas on the Senate floor

you move to end debate and pass it with 51 votes.

That's how other filibusters have been defeated. Make them filibuster! Don't let them just file a piece of paper claiming they are filibustering!

Any other questions?

[ncteechur]

6. by using reconciliation, you would lose the non-budget components

[uponit7771]

8. Use reconciliation for cost controlls and pass the rest via joint committee we're done but Reid has

....not came out with his position on that procedure

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. Reread what I wrote

That would be included in the normal legislation already on track. Reconciliation could take one of two courses depending on the obstructionists. If there are 60 votes for cloture on the Senate bill stripped of the public option and medicare buy in, the obstructionists could be rewarded for their limitied cooperation by Democrats introducing reconciliation legislation that in effect restored the overall compromise that had been agreed to in the final negotiations for the current Senate Bill before Lieberman torpedoed it.

However if they still kill the Senate bill, even with it stripped of the public provisions, than the only option left Democrats would be to strengthen the public sector significantly - since at that point only the threat of competition from the public sector could force private insurers to offer products that actually served the true needs of their policy holders. So the choice would be theirs. Honor the original painstakenly hammered out compromises with this two step procedure, or watch as a very real very vibrant threat to private insurers emerges via reconciliation. Minimally figure on a medicare buy in from age 50 plus a public option open every citizen or something along those lines.

Framed that way I think the original compromise would be reinstated in a two step dance, though I would rather go with the more radical route personally. The choice would be theirs. Right now they have nothing to lose by obstructing. This approach would fundamentally change that equation.

[Clio the Leo]

5. It's my understanding that the President was supposed to "man up."

As "manning up" solves all of the world's ills.

[uponit7771]

7. Some say Obama should've went down to the senate floor and punch Lieberman in his damn mouth...

...that would've made everything better.

There are some who are crazy

[freddie mertz]

10. Without presidential support, it died in August.

Were you paying attention then?

[andym]

13. reconciliation

get at least 5 years worth

[harun]

14. Reconcilation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)