Osama made threatening move towards Americans during the raid and was then killed per CNN

[jezebel]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/03/white-house-bin-laden-was-unarmed-when-killed/?hpt=T1



U.S. commandos shot Osama bin Laden when he made a threatening move during the Americans' raid on his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, a U.S. official said, according to CNN's Pam Benson.

Earlier today, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said bin Laden was not armed when U.S. forces shot and killed him.

When Benson asked the first U.S. official whether bin Laden tried to grab a weapon or physically attack a commando, the official said only, "He didn't hold up his hands and surrender."

Recapping the five compound occupants who U.S. officials say were killed in the assault: Bin Laden; two al Qaeda couriers; one woman; and a son of bin Laden. A second woman - one of bin Laden's wives - was shot in the leg, but not killed, after she rushed the commandos, Carney said earlier today.

The woman who was killed was shot "in crossfire" on the first floor where the couriers were killed, and it's not clear whether anyone was using her as a human shield, Carney told reporters today.

The official who spoke to Benson said no other person - dead or alive - besides bin Laden was taken from the compound.

-----------------------------------------------------


Boo fucking hoo he wasn't armed.

[beyurslf]

1. I don't care if he was armed or not.

[jezebel]

3. frankly, neither do I. I don't care if he was sleeping in his bed and they went in and killed him.

He deserved it and more.

[reggie the dog]

18. why is killing him more important than interrogating him?

dont you think he may have given any useful info out?

i kind of thought that w wasnt concerned about finding him as an agreement to let him be so long as he didnt talk about certain people

[On the Road]

42. I Think So, Too

but if there is a gun battle the SEALS may not have had that option. Slightly different versions of the stories have come out.

What should help the US counter-terrorism effort a lot, though, is the computer they seized. That is likely to be a treasure trove of information and contacts.

[reggie the dog]

62. hopefully the computer will be of great use to our intellegence

but i doubt it. i imagine that he was smart enought to not have lots of info on him and any given time. but if we are lucky there will be a lot.

[Honeycombe8]

74. You're kidding, right? The big commando gangster....

who fought off the Russians for ten long years....and who has orchestrated mass murder around the globe for decades....whose bodyguards reportedly had orders to kill him before he could be taken alive...THAT guy you think would cough up information?

Besides....we got the information from the compound, in writing. Much more reliable than any words OBL would ever speak to the enemy.

Then we'd have the added problem of what to do with him. It would be controversial just to shoot him in his cell, or hang him high without a trial. Besides becoming a recruitment draw. What a problem it would be. What a mess.

Better just to execute the sentence for the crimes, and be done with it. Then gather up all OBL's information in writing, and use it.

Besides, OBL didn't know anything, probably, that someone else also doesn't know.

[reggie the dog]

80. i honestly think he would have ratted out anyone who

dobulecrossed him.

[leveymg]

2. This is going sour.

It's beginning to look more and more like an extrajudicial execution - whatever you may think of that.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leveymg]

19. You forgot the rain icon. ;-)

[phleshdef]

10. No, but I bet you are hoping it does.

[leveymg]

22. You haven't read I thing I've written about either Obama or Osama, have you?

My biggest concern is for accountability - I'd hate to see this part of it go bad, after the Bush Administration criminally f-cked up counter-terrorism. Criminally, repeatedly - pattern and practice criminally. I had hoped for something better than an extrajudicial execution from this Administration.

[phleshdef]

29. There is no evidence of extrajudicial execution.

When a bunch of guys with guns tell you to drop and hit the floor, you don't make aggressive moves towards them. If you do, you get shot. Thats not an execution. That shooting a suspect that appeared threatening. It happens probably everyday in this country. And its completely legal.

[leveymg]

31. What's an "aggressive move"? Anyway, if they had been ordered to capture him, they would have done

so. There was no reason that a concussion grenade thrown into the room wouldn't have done the trick and avoided any "threatening moves" by the occupants, as you put it.

By the way, to someone who is wearing that much body armour there aren't many really threatening moves.

[phleshdef]

34. Spoken like someone that must play way too many video games.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

The fact is, for ages in this country, domestic officers of the law can and do use force whenever a suspect is aggressively resisting compliance. Thats a good way to get yourself shot. I apply the same standards here. I think you'd best put away your playstation and stop second guessing the judgement of trained professionals when you, like most of the rest of us, have not yet been provided with a full account of the details for clarity. You shouldn't even expect to know the whole story at this point.

[leveymg]

37. This was a military operation, not an arrest. SEALs aren't trained law enforcement officers.

They had their mission and rules of engagement, and carried it out. Simple as that. As to whether it might have been a better command decision to take Obama alive for questioning, that's something I do know something about. I know enough to be able to say that killing him may have been justified, but not necessary, and not necessarily such a good idea.

You want to debate the policies and politics of this, we can do that here. Just don't presume to tell me to shut up because I don't know enough to comment. That's just disrespectful.

[phleshdef]

41. Don't fucking lecture me about disrespectful. You are attacking the SEALs judgment without knowing.

...any details at all. These men deserve enough to get the benefit of the doubt until the full story is ready to be revealed, reports written, details ironed out and ambiguities clarified. You have no grounds to lecture me on shit with that bit of nonsense. So consider your plea for respect denied. You show none where its clearly been earned, you get none in return.

I don't care if it was a military operation. I refuse to tell soldiers in the battlefield that they have less of a right to self protection than I would police officers in my city. There is no international law preventing them from shooting an international criminal who is acting aggressively towards them during an attempt at apprehension. None.

[leveymg]

43. I am not attacking their judgement. I am questioning their orders.

The SEALs are exceptionally brave, fit, and competent soldiers. They are not trained to do law enforcement. This mission was carried out as a search and clear operation, not an arrest. There is a major difference - by sending them into that room, instead of armed FBI agents, the outcome was pretty much preordained.

I don't entirely disagree with the decision to kill Bin Laden, but I know that he would have been more valuable alive because of what he knew. I look at this as part analyst and part historian, and someone who has been waiting for direct testimony from someone who was directly involved in the planning of events leading up to 9/11. By killing him, they ended any chance we have had to learn why this happened as it did.

[phleshdef]

46. How do you know that? They seized tons of intelligence from that place.

There could be journals and plans among all of that. You are again, making a declaration about something without actually knowing anything about it.

Its a friggin compound, guarded by terrorist militants in the middle of Butt Fuck Pakistan. You don't send the FBI into places like that. The special forces and the CIA basically ARE the people that perform law enforcement operations in that situation. Just because we call it some other name or phrase because its military and international instead of domestic police, does not change what it essentially is.

[leveymg]

68. Not a tiny fraction of what UBL knew. Destruction of evidence on a scale

that rivals the crimes of 9/11 and those that followed.

Doesn't anyone want to know what really happened, or is the most important thing to simply put it all behind us, regardless? If so, we will have learnt nothing from the experience, and open ourselves to something worse.

[TheWraith]

35. "Aggressive move" probably means reaching for a weapon or something that might be a weapon.

The same way that police don't allow a cop killer to put their hand behind their back out of sight of the arresting officers.

[leftynyc]

81. In my mind

Anything short of putting up his hands and begging them not to shoot him is aggressive. YOu can continue to wring your hands about this or just be glad a mass murderer is no longer breathing the same air you are. Your choice.

[Ikonoklast]

11. Yeah, right.

You guys are funny.

Not "Ha-ha" funny.

[leveymg]

27. Who exactly do you think I am, and who are "you guys"?

What, you think nobody would notice or care that they shot an unarmed man, no matter how much he richly deserved a far worse end? Personally, I would have preferred he be properly interrogated, put on trial, and some important unanswered questions asked before conviction and execution.

There are good, pragmatic reasons for taking Osama bin Laden alive, even if it was highly inconvenient and potentially embarrassing (at least) for some people, particularly the former President and some of his circle.

[MercuryRepeater]

23. you are going sour. or maybe you went that way a long time ago.

[leveymg]

28. In what way do you mean?

I'm just stating what I observe happening around me. Attack the messenger much?

[dennis4868]

4. Only DUers give a shit....

how this monster was killed.....I dont give a shit how they killed the bastard.....all I can think of is people jumping out of the world trade center on 911.....we liberals have mental issues.....

[jezebel]

6. Yeah I don't get it. By tomorrow I expect some DUers to be calling for Obama's impeachment. Insane.

[dennis4868]

7. Probably by tonight....

they are waiting for the green light from Glen Greenwald and Dennis Kusinich....hahahaha!

[AnOhioan]

9. if you are going to try and insult someone...

at least spell their name correctly

[dennis4868]

30. why?

I got the point across....so I make some speling mistakes.....big dale!

[Ikonoklast]

48. Quit picking on Big Dale.

At least he knows how to spel Koosinich.

[Wait Wut]

16. The freakin' kids.

I keep thinking of the kids on those planes. The ones that had to watch while the flight attendant's throat was slit open with a box cutter.

Yeah. Poor Osama. Gee, I sure hope that he didn't suffer.

[reggie the dog]

24. once again your emotions get the best of you

think of all the kids who died under brutal dictators across the middle east and north africa at the hands of our totalitarian allies and perhaps you will see why the usa was attacked and then perhaps you could also see the value of having a trail at which bin laden could explain to the world that the movement he is a part of is much larger than him, that it is due to how the usa treats people around the world, and perhaps he would have been pissed off at being doublecrossed by the americans if ineed he had enganged in a plot with some americans on 911, and been pissed of and ratted them out.

do the terms LIHOP and MIHOP mean anything to you?

do you see no value in interrogating someone like him?

[Wait Wut]

32. My emotions are just fine.

My son joined the Marines because of the kids (and women) in the ME, not because of 9/11. He wanted to personally remove each and every one of those brutal dictators and give those kids (and women) a chance at freedom, democracy and education. Maybe he was a bit overconfident, maybe he didn't appreciate the scope of his involvement, but it was his choice and I supported it because it's what I wanted, as well. If you think OBL would have given one bit of information in an "interrogation", you're insane. Unless, of course, we were allowed to torture him. Is that what you had planned? A little waterboarding, perhaps?

I'm not going to accept your reasoning that the US deserved to be attacked. That's a complete bullshit, disgusting response. I'm not going to accept that this piece of shit could get us to all hold hands in a peaceful new world, either. You're response is delusional. He didn't give a damn about the women in children in whatever country he called "home" at the time. He didn't give a damn about the women and children in the towers, on the planes, or anywhere else. Don't give me that "he was pissed off". I'm pissed off at a lot of things. I'm not going to kill 3,000 innocent people to prove my point.

He's dead. I'm friggin' thrilled to pieces. It gives me pleasure to know that his body is rotting at the bottom of the sea. That he will not be able to whine about his life and his reasons in order to convince more preteens that they should strap bombs to their bodies in order to become martyrs.

You can mourn his death. Go drop some flowers on his grave, if that suits you. I will spit on it.

[dennis4868]

33. Thanks for that post.....

I AM HAPPY THAT FUCKER IS DEAD AND DON'T GIVE A SHIT THAT HE WAS UNARMED WHEN HE WAS SHOT.....NONE OF THAT MATTERS!

[Wait Wut]

36. Love the "we could have interrogated him"...

...from the same people that are anti-torture. We all know that if we had asked nicely, he would have just opened right up and given us all the info we wanted.

Good grief.

[dennis4868]

38. remember....

we are in DU....the irrational 24/7 Obama haters are back after taking the day off yesterday....

[reggie the dog]

64. where did i say i hate obama?

i have said on here that he handled this much better than w.

i just want to know who gave the order for it to be a kill and not try to capture and kill if not possible mission.

obama did not laugh, smile and say "we put a hole in his head" like w would have

obama actually wanted to find and neutralize bin laden whereas w said he didnt even think much about him and that he wasnt important. i much prefer obama's way of handing this issue.

if obama ordered a kill mission i will wonder why but can understand that it is justifiable and legal to kill an enemy soldier, low or high ranking, if they do not surrender and accept that such a mission was actually far better than the nothing that w did.

[reggie the dog]

63. not all but some info

i entertain the possibility that some americans were involved in plotting 911 with bin laden

if he got busted by americans he may have felt doublecrossed and sung like a bird out of vengence.

[reggie the dog]

39. I am delusional and disgusting for saying that the usa

has done many horrible actions which lead us to be a legitimate target to many people around the world?

it is insane to think that if bin laden were arrested by americans that he may just rat out someone like cheney for being in on 911 or that he would have explained to the people that the usa's support of dictators made the movement popular, not him.

your son joined the marines to remove the dictators the usa supported in algeria, tunisia, egypt, oman, yemen, saudi arabia, and israel, or just the one we helped put into power in iraq? or the one who rose to power in opposition to the dictator we put in in iran? Think about the cold war, the usa and the ussr supported dictators around the world so long as the dictators did business with the right side. in turn the soviets and the americans supported some royal assholes who really hurt their people and those people hate us for it. seeing as the ussr no longer exists the russians dont have the same problem; it wasnt them it was the soviets, but in the usa our country has not fallen apart so we are still a target.

at any rate hats off to him for wanting to help liberate people and defend his country. i know i would not want to do his job because i am too scared by the idea of war to join the military.

open your eyes, of course the usa is a target for people because of its belligerence. so are many countries around the world incuding where i live now, France. I dont think the same can be said for norway, sweden, finland, south korea, taiwan, houduras, argentina or many other countries.

[Wait Wut]

44. Ahhh...

...a Truther.

You keep believing that he was justified in murdering 3000 innocent people. I'll continue to know that this was not an inside job.

My eyes are wide open and my foil is used for chicken. I'd send some to you, but the postage to France is outrageous.

[reggie the dog]

51. when did i say he was justified in killing us?

i dont think we should kill or help kill innocents and i dont think anyone should. i am just arguing that the usa has done some horrible shit during colonialism and the cold war that led to us being despised by many people. what the usa did during the cold war for europe led to europe loving america, what they did in latin america, africa and the middle east, not so much so.

as for 911 we can probably both agree that the neocons profited from it politically and rammed their agenda through. they had motive to let it happen or make it happen.

do you beleive the magic bullet theory? if you agree that jfk was probably killed in a consipacy then you agree that the rabbit hole is deep?

one thing is for sure, we are both bears fans, at least we agree on that.

i will be in chicago this summer, some fried chicken or bbq is a great dish but i heard the twisters in the south may mess up the chicken supply this year. may have to stick to brats.

[Wait Wut]

59. Go for the brats.

Or, Polish. I'm stuck in AZ and can only get Johnsonville or the no-name brand that tastes like it was made in someone's shed.

Chicago summers can be brutal, but well worth the suffering. Keep wanting to take the husband to Blues Fest (he's a blues piano player). Someday when we get rich, maybe.

[reggie the dog]

65. blues on halstead st. near fullerton is a great hole in the wall

blues club. i grew up in chicago, i love the dry heat from mexico one day and the humid heat from mississippi the next

[Wait Wut]

67. I grew up in the suburbs...

...but spent most of my weekends growing up in Chicago. Still call it my first love.

I miss rain. And real trees. Food. Museums. Culture. People in different shades of brown and white. I don't miss frigid, sinus freezing weather.

[reggie the dog]

69. ok i grew up in the suburbs too, elk grove village

but i went to college at UIC

elk grove was conservative hell, chicago was a liberal oaisis

i also moved to a place with less rain, less real tress especially down in the vallies, and less sinus freezing weather. the var in France.

[Wait Wut]

71. Elk Grove...isn't that by Busse Woods?

I used to hang out there. I'm from Elmhurst. A once rich Liberal hell (for a teenager). They've drifted a bit to the right, but still Democratic.

[reggie the dog]

72. that's the one, just east of busse woods and the woodfield mall

and elmhurst is still on the left, my sister taught there recently

[Wait Wut]

78. Where did she teach?

I miss Woodfield Mall. I remember when it was built. Yes, I'm that old.

[reggie the dog]

79. some primary school

but she is young, not even 30 yet

[reggie the dog]

20. yes you do, you let your emotions over ride your rationality

you let your emotion take over and you about people jumping out of a window instead of thinking about questioning one of the people who organized the attact that led people to jump out of the window.

what if there was a conspiracy involving some of our government on 911 and bin laden could have shown some light on it?

why was he a monster? his actions led to far less deaths than americas actions had led to anywhere we gave financial and military aid to dictators.

you should care how he was killed

if he was simply executed that should signal to you that he may have been killed to keep him quiet

should the police just be able to walk up and kill an unarmed murderer who has sent a video to the press and admitted to the killings?

[Mrsadkins9399]

45. Me neither

Where is the sympathy for the people killed on 9/11....They are the victims...not OBL.

[Mrsadkins9399]

53. K&R nt

Sad that is more sadness over OBL not getting due process than over the people who were murdered on 9/11

[napi21]

5. Suicid by cop! Remember, Osama said he would NEVER be taken alive! nt

[Papagoose]

12. I don't care how he died, but I hope he knew who was there to get him

[backscatter712]

13. If they forced OBL to his knees and capped him in the back of the head, I'd be fine with it. nt

[DrToast]

14. Of course he was executed

And I don't care.

[reggie the dog]

25. you think it normal to execute someone before questioning them

before trying to get them to give information

before asking them why they did what they did?

really?

our conterterrorism could not have benefited in any way from questioning bin laden?

the government counts on people not caring and having a thirst for blood in order for their plots to work.

rest assured, bin laden pulled off 911 with no help from inside the w administration. all is well now, the bad man who did the job is dead... :sarcasm:

[DrToast]

40. Truthers? Seriously?

[reggie the dog]

55. do you believe that jfk was killed by lee harvey oswald?

honestly most people i know do not believe the magic bullet theory

the rabbit hole is how deep? i dont know

w was briefed about bin laden and planes and then came out after the attack and said "who could have known"

i think there is a good possibility that 911 was let happen, with perhaps some effects like imloding and exploding buildings added by some entity.

the w administration was not the most truthful administration in our history, their whole lying to go to war in iraq is proof that they are full of shit.

[hulka38]

15. The administration didn't want OBL

in detention and God forbid, on trial.

[reggie the dog]

26. yeah, he may have told us the truth about certain people

a truth that we would "not be able to handle"

[Starbucks Anarchist]

17. I wouldn't care if he was unarmed and sound asleep.

Asshole got what he deserved.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. +1

[jefferson_dem]

47. +1.

[Ikonoklast]

58. No, he didn't.

He got off easy.

Way easier than any of his victims.


And people are wringing their hands over this in order to score some obscure political point against President Obama.


The word must have come down from the WSWS.


Disgusting.

[DCBob]

49. This is a non-story.. most Americans could care less what he did or did not do..

he already did more than enough during the past 10-15 years to deserve two bullets in the head.

[reggie the dog]

56. why the urge to kill and not to question?

our intellegence teams could benefit from interrogating such people couldnt they?

[DCBob]

57. Not worth the risk.

Who knows what could have happened if they were trying to be too careful.

[reggie the dog]

60. then why send in a team and not simply bomb it first then send a team in?

why send an elite squad if they are ordered to kill and not ordered to capture if at all possible or kill if not possible to capture? it is the nature of the order given which i am curious about. according to var matin the NSA stated that it was a kill mission.

[DCBob]

61. Needed to get the body to verify..

that was definitely worth the risk.

[reggie the dog]

66. seems logical

but why order kill and not try to capture or kill if not possible

[DCBob]

70. I dont know for sure but I suspect just easier, cleaner, simpler..

if you try to capture alive more likely to have problems.

[reggie the dog]

73. cheaper i disagree with

but simpler perhaps

[Diamonique]

50. I'm glad the fucker is dead, and I don't give a shit how it went down. nt

[TwilightGardener]

52. Had we bombed his compound as initially planned, he could have been

trimming his toenails or taking a nap or sitting on the john. And the end result is the same.

[chowder66]

54. Did you see the title? And people wonder why so many get things wrong or think there is a conspiracy

"Panetta says he thinks bin Laden eventually will be released".

So OBL is alive!!! See? Conspiracy.

It never ends...ugh.

[SadPanda]

75. Keep in mind these SEAL's saved the lives of over TWENTY children during this raid...

A little bit better than dropping a bomb on the house?

[GeorgeGist]

76. Then it must be true.

[Keith Bee]

77. K&R