"Reconcile THIS"

[damonm]

This from someone who's been on this case from the beginning: (whole thing at http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/12/15/reconcile-this/)

Reconcile THIS
by Karoli on December 15, 2009

Howard Dean is on the campaign trail. He wants to “kill the bill” (a line right out of the teafolks’ protest signs) and use budget reconciliation to revive the public option.

Through the furor of the past day I am clearer about the public option. It has very little to do with cost controls and everything to do with a symbolic slide to single payer health care. Even the CBO noted that it would have no real market impact, but would actually encourage adverse selection by shifting insureds with health problems into that plan, not because costs would be less, but because claims might be paid more easily than under a private insurance plan. This is not my theory. This is what the CBO said. So that we’re clear.

(snip)
After a year of hammering out reform bills in these very same committees, Howard Dean thinks it’s somehow a great idea (in an election year) to send it back? REALLY?

(snip)
If this bill goes to reconciliation, it will be dead, and so will over a million Americans, while we wait another 25 years to try this again. Or not. By then, I’ll be on my way out. It’ll be my kids and grandkids that suffer. Is that really what we want? Really?

[Vincardog]

1. Please tell me how sending Billions MORE of our dollars to the parasitic insurance companies helps?

[damonm]

7. I'll do that...

after you tell me how killing HCR dead for 50 years, MINIMUM, is better than the existing bills.

[MercutioATC]

8. I'll do that...

after you tell me how killing HCR dead for 50 years, MINIMUM, is the only alternate scenario.

[damonm]

19. Simple.

The Democrats will have lost all credibility on the issue - they campaigned on it, they brought it forward, and then, on the edge of getting the job at least partially done, PULLED IT BACK. No one will ever take them seriously again on the issue, and the Rethugs will NOT bring it forward. Then, by retreating from doing anything about plank #1 in their platform, they hand the Rethugs an issue on a silver platter.

[Vincardog]

26. Instead of passing a crap bill give away to Insurance and Pharma the Democrats regroup and shove.

a GOOD bill through using RECONCILIATION.
And Conservative idealism dies another death;
and its' proponents are not heard form for 50 years.

[damonm]

28. In what world?

Not this one - the Democrats don't have the spine.

And AGAIN I ask (and have yet to get an answer from the "Kill the Bill" crowd): name ONE time in all US history where a bill has gotten this far, been pulled back by its proponents, and then come back to life as a stroger version of itself.

If you can do that, my objections go away.

But I don't think you can, as it's never happened, AFAIK.

[Vincardog]

13. How is letting the RePigs stop the bill and going to reconciliation dead for 50 years?

[damonm]

20. see #19.

[progressoid]

14. HCR dead for 50 years, MINIMUM??? Miss Cleo? Is that you?

I have some other things I'd like you to use your psychic powers on.

[still_one]

2. The bill currently coming out of the Senate is far worse then the house version

1. No Single Payer

2. No public option

3. No expanded Medicare coverage

4. No drug re-importation

5. No cost controls

6. No renegotiation of drug prices

7. Capped annual coverage for care

8. Individual mandated coverage

9. Anti-trust exemption for insurance companies

10. A tax on middle class insurance plans

11. Taxes that start up in January, but benefits that don’t start until 2014

[damonm]

5. True on some, wrong on others, but bear in mind...

This has to get merged with the House bill before it goes for signature. And I gotta call Boxer's office - last I heard (yesterday), your #7 is wrong, as is #10 and #11.
#1 was never on the table, and #2 wasn't going to have a big cost impact anyway (per the CBO), so I don't sweat that so much.

Single-payer comes later. For now, the important thing is to (a)get rid of the "pre-existing" BS, (b) prevent insurers from arbitrarily cancelling coverage whn you get sick,(c)getting rid of lifetime caps, and (d) regulating rate increases. If we have those, I can live w/o the rest - for now.

And if it DOES get killed - name me ONE time in all history a where a bill has made it this far, been pulled back by proponents, and lived as a stronger version of itself.

You can't because it's never happened.

Kill this bill, and you kill HCR dead, dead, DEAD for 50 years at a minimum.

Maybe 44,000 dead each of those years is worth it to you to get a "perfect" bill - it's not to me, and never will be.

[Fire1]

11. Here's the Senate version. Doesn't sound half bad, imo.

http://stabenow.senate.gov/healthcare/Patient_protection_section.pdf

[damonm]

22. THIS, I can live with...

...and it gives a basis to build on.

[asjr]

3. Reconciliation and compromise are the two

dirtiest words in the health care fight.

[damonm]

6. Welcome to the real world. Sucks, don't it? n/t

[Voltaire]

9. All the more reason to change the real world paradigm

Or are you like the helpless WH and Senate, wailing that there is nothing else they can do. The system sucks. Fucking change it. By. Any. Means. Necessary.

[damonm]

17. Thank you for reminding me

...of why the right kept winning elections from 1968. Rhetoric like that.

[Voltaire]

27. The right wins elections, if you want to call it that

Because they are lying, cheating, thieving, conniving fucking cretins. A fair election they could NEVER win. You could, as they say, look it up.

[uponit7771]

4. "If this bill goes to reconciliation, it will be dead", only the price controls should go, next?

[Renew Deal]

10. I agree that the "public option" was nothing more than symbolic

Because it didn't matter what "public option" meant to most people, they supported it. Obama's description of the "public option" during the speech to congress was very limited, but people here supported it. I doubt they knew what they actually were supporting.

[ima_sinnic]

12. why do people NEVER consider whether they can AFFORD the insurance

they're going to be forced to buy, and whether that "insurance" will actually really help them?

People just seem really stupid about this. Are they dumb cattle who don't object to being led to slaughter, or what?

Feh, I'll be dead pretty soon, so I don't give a shit anymore.

[Laelth]

15. Doing nothing would be better. Here's why:

The current system is unsustainable, and everyone knows it. Change will come, eventually, UNLESS we pass the disastrous bill that's currently on the table.

California will probably pass single-payer on its own in 2011. All they need is a Democratic Governor. The legislature has already passed the bill. Schwarzenegger vetoed it. Once California has single-payer, most (if not all) states will follow suit.

It's likely that if we pass a new law now, the new law will preempt single-payer, i.e. the Federal law will preempt state law and prevent states from enacting a single-payer system.

THIS is what the health insurance companies fear. THIS is what brought them to the bargaining table. THIS is why they are not fighting Obama's tepid reforms, and THIS is why it is extremely important that we do not pass any health insurance reform bill this year.

Let's not settle for a bail-out of the health insurance industry. Let's insist on the eradication of it. In all likelihood, California will lead the way in 2011 ... if we can just give them time.

Canada got its single-payer system one province at a time. That seems to be the way it will have to happen in the U.S.

:dem:

-Laelth

[damonm]

18. You know, that might not be bad...

except that, when the system collapses, the feds will panic - and when does ANYTHING good come from that?

[Laelth]

23. If the system collapses and single-payer is in place, we'll be fine.

No nation that has ever adopted universal health care has ever gotten rid of it. I admit that the Federal government acts rashly during times of crisis (i.e. the unPatriot Act), but I don't think that any state that adopts single-payer will get rid of it. Certainly, none of Canada's provinces have.

:dem:

-Laelth

[damonm]

25. BIG if...

CA, MA, NY, I can see having this in place - other places will not, and there, to my mind, will be the problem with your scenario. There will be enough states without that the feds will try to institute a MASSIVE panic measure that will cause chaos.

[jillan]

16. Just get the mandate out of this bill so people are not forced to buy insurance from these

con artists called Insurance companies.

If there is no choice, then no Mandate.

[depakid]

21. "If this bill goes to reconciliation, it will be dead," Nominated for the dumbest statement yet-

This person is clueless.

[angee_is_mad]

24. Get ready for the Un-recs

Anything that isn't bashing President Obama looks like this <0.

But thanks for your post all the same.

[damonm]

29. At the risk ...

...of sounding like the 3rd-worst POTUS in History (sorry, but Buchanan & Fillmore are still 1-2);
"Bring 'em on..."

[Revealer]

30. It's all about the numbers

Do you people remember how the House bill with a weak public option barely squeaked through (220-215) with 26 blue dogs voting yes? If you do, then what makes you think that a bill that can only pass the Senate with reconciliation will pass the House? Those few blue dogs who voted for the original bill will have run for the hills by then looking for political cover.