Am I the only one who saw Bill Clinton offer to make a deal with Paul Ryan on Medicare

[hedgehog]

on Rachel Maddow last night?

:hide:

Though I'm not sure what Bill Clinton brings to the table, what's up with Steny Hower?

[ewagner]

1. It was on O'Donnel's Show too

I couldn't believe what I was hearing or seeing.....

[hedgehog]

6. Maddow said the clip came from ABC, so a lot of people must have seen it.

She spent a lot of the show discussing how the three top issues in 2012 will be Medicare, Medicare & Medicare. There was also a lot of footage of a smiling Senator Reid (he can't wait to hit the Republicans with this)
contrasted with comments about how some Democrats are getting ready to deal away this card!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

2. I didn't see Maddow last night (don't have cable)

but what is Clinton's role in all of this? AFAIK he's not involved in any budget talks/negotiations. Hoyer is, of course, but not Clinton. Did President Obama or somebody else give Clinton some kind of negotiating authority regarding Medicare? I'm not sure I'm liking what I've been hearing about Clinton in recent days- unless, of course, Clinton is just trying to keep Ryan "encouraged" on his plans for political purposes. :shrug:

IMHO until the Republicans are going to get REALLY serious about the deficit/national debt (meaning that absolutely EVERYTHING is on the table, not just discretionary spending that leans towards 99% of the country), the Democrats should not agree to any of the Republican demands.

[avebury]

26. Proud Liberal Dem

If you have internet access you can download Itunes and then get Rachel Maddow's show the next day either as an audio or video podcast.

[montanacowboy]

3. Clinton

the best Republican President we ever had

Yes I saw it, and he just LOVES Paul Ryan - says he will call him about it

And excuse me - I didn't think Clinton was President anymore, but he just can't quit I guess

[hedgehog]

7. He may be a point man for a bunch of guys behind the scenes.

I'm thinking of the DLC crowd.

[kenfrequed]

28. Dear gods

When will the DLC/Blue Dog contingent get it into their friggin heads that they are killing the party?

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. Clinton just needs to fade away from the political scene.

He left behind a lot of bodies with his whirlwind politics. I'm so glad he's had a chance to develop relationships and live a normal life. Many of us who took the brunt of his deal making never will.

[Fuddnik]

34. He thinks he's an elder statesman now. Just like Poppy.

And Nixon fancied himself as one.

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. Maybe he should take some cues from Carter,

and pick up a mallet and nails to build houses for the needy.

Clinton is top down politics 24/7. I'm getting tired of it because it has worn me down.

[leftynyc]

65. His Global Initiative raises

money for many, many causes. Just becuase he doesn't pick up a hammer doesn't mean he's laying on a beach somewhere enjoying his wealth.

[Avant Guardian]

67. I suspect Obama sent him

...to talk to Ryan

[AtomicKitten]

69. Pfft.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

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[AtomicKitten]

72. LOL.

:crazy:

[Avant Guardian]

73. "My healthcare plan includes every republican idea"

EOM

[AtomicKitten]

74. "Including ideas" is better than leading the charge to go after Medicare and Social Security.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=680017&mesg_id=680713

[Avant Guardian]

75. No, it isnt

Including republican ideas ruins whatever is trying to be accomplished. It is non pragmatism.

When you include 'every republican idea' failure becomes a feature of the legislation.

[AtomicKitten]

76. Pfft.

But I digress: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=680017&mesg_id=680706

[Avant Guardian]

77. Mark my words

...for future reference.

[AtomicKitten]

80. I'll file it next to FDL's prediction "Obama will announce gutting Medicare/SS at SOTU Jan 2011."

Got it.

[Avant Guardian]

88. Just put it in your 'Bill Clinton is evil' folder

Then when Obama 'strikes a private deal' with Ryan on Medicare, you can take a peak back into it and compare.

[ClarkUSA]

89. No need. It's a matter of public record how much of a pandering DINO the DLC King is.

It's revealing that those who constantly accuse President Obama of not being liberal enough or attack him as being a sell-out are bending over backwards defending an obvious DINO like DLC Bill.

[AtomicKitten]

93. Interesting observation.

It's revealing that those who constantly accuse President Obama of not being liberal enough or attack him as being a sell-out are bending over backwards defending an obvious DINO like DLC Bill.

Revealing indeed.

[rfranklin]

4. It's the same Clinton who triangulated us into NAFTA...

I think he is the point man to get the ball rolling on Medicare deform.

[Avant Guardian]

78. I agree, he is Obama's point man

Two triangulating peas in a pod.

[Mimosa]

5. I saw it. It was the worst little revelation of how politics is conducted. n/t

[hedgehog]

8. Here's the clip - it's after the very end (Sorry about the commercial:)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#43175901

[LiberalFighter]

9. I saw it too. I don't know as if it was a deal.

But, it looked like Clinton was sympathizing and agreeing with Ryan.

[hedgehog]

10. MUST ..... RESTRAIN....... SELF..... FROM ..... SAYING....WHAT

I.....REALLY.....THINK....ABOUT.....BILL!

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. I am so disappointed in that man.

[xultar]

11. He did not make a fucking deal with Ryan. If he just said hello to the guy

DU would have accused him of the same thing.

He's just taking to a young politician. He's said that to many people including my dad when we met him at church.

Drop the craziness

The REAL problem is what he said about the debt ceiling. Don't get distracted by the minor bullshit.

[hedgehog]

13. But he didn't just say hello to the guy. That's the point.

An argument could be made that Clinton is hoping for a compromise:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/on-medicare-bill-clinton-tells-rep-paul-ryan-give-me-a-call/

but Ryan wants to eliminate Medicare - not much room for compromise there!


Edit - I saw what he said about the debt ceiling. Unbelievable!

[xultar]

59. He said the same shit he said to Ryan off stage on stage not 10 mins later

Telling a guy to call you isn't making a fucking deal.

[Raine1967]

14. I dunno. I just watched the video.

He specifically said he hoped that NY26 wouldn;t be a reason for Dems to do nothing about medicare.

Have you seen a different video than the one Maddow aired?

[hedgehog]

15. The implication that the Democrats aren't doing anything about Medicare

is very damaging when in fact they are cutting costs, going after fraud and improving benefits!

[Raine1967]

21. That is why I am wondering if there is more than what Rachel showed.

The ABC video was edited. This looks very damning on Clinton's half. I can totally understand politicians talking to each other, I get that. But this seems a bridge too far.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

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[boppers]

94. No, you see, if democrats go after fraud, or cut waste, they are enemies of medicare.

Pharma and the medical industry says so.

[kjackson227]

12. I saw this, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing...

I was really surprised and disappointed in him.

[lonestarlib]

16. No, you're not the only one--

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/25/979272/-Memo-to-Bill-Clinton:STFU?via=tag

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Ugh. And to think that Carville was his point man.

"You shouldn't draw the conclusion that the New York race means that nobody can do anything solve the rising Medicare costs,” said during his speech. “I just don't agree with that. I think you should draw the conclusion that the people made a judgment that this proposal in the Republican is not the right one. I agree with that, but I'm afraid that the Democrats will draw the conclusion that because Congressman Ryan's proposal, I think, is not the best one, that we shouldn't do anything and I completely disagree with that." Bill clinton.

[Enrique]

20. more important is the deals the CURRENT dems might make

since they're the ones with power.

[flpoljunkie]

22. What this conversation did for Ryan was to legitimize his plan, helps R's plan to destroy Medicare

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[The Backlash Cometh]

27. Looks like a lot of spin from what I saw.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[woofless]

30. I think you are wrong,

and uncool for calling someone insane. I didn't hear Clinton encourage Ryan nor did I hear him endorse the plan to kill Medicare. Maybe you did. Not the way I heard it.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Vattel]

32. So by suggesting that he would talk to Ryan

about reforming Medicare, he implied that he liked Ryan's approach to reforming Medicare? Soory, I'm not seeing it.

[coalition_unwilling]

37. Strawman. He (Clinton) implied that Ryan's approach to

privatize Medicare is better than Dems who 'do nothing'.

Clinton gives the old 'wink-wink nod-nod' to dismantling a key provision of the New Deal\Great Society.

Surprised you don't see it, as my opinion is shared by countless others on this board.

[Mz Pip]

38. I'm not seeing it either.

In fact I thought it was a subtle dig at Ryan, kind of a fake punch. I thought Clinton was sort of encouraging Ryan to keep it up because if anything it will motivate the Democrats and Clinton knows this.

As far as the "Call me" remark. Pretty standard comment when you know damn well the person isn't going to be calling you. Clinton knows Ryan won't be calling him.

[elleng]

47. You're right, of course, if you suggest he meant to discuss/negotiate/

work at useful solutions to recognized problems. Silly of folks to suggest Clinton working against people.

[fadedrose]

25. I missed hearing, but saw the clip twice today....

What did it say - is there a Y-Tube on it anywhere...

[Ikonoklast]

31. Bill lost me at NAFTA.

Nothing he does now surprises me much.

Cashin' in, cha-ching!!

[fadedrose]

33. Bonior

I liked Bonior when he ran for Gov. of Michigan, but because Bonior did not support the Nafta bill when he was Dem Whip of the Congress, I am guessing that that's why Clinton supported Granholm. This is only my opinion, but you have to remember that I have a Derangement Syndrome diagnosed just recently by Rageneau, and he didn't even charge me.

[former9thward]

39. If you hate Clinton you will see all sorts of demons in those few sentences

of conversation. If you don't hate him you will see some friendly banter between politicians.

[ProSense]

40. Is that similar to

seening "all sorts of demons" in Obama's statement?

[former9thward]

42. Maybe but they are not really the same.

Obama's statement was a well rehearsed and well vetted statement on foreign policy. Clinton's was an off the cuff banter that he didn't know was being recorded. Two different animals.

[ProSense]

45. So

"hate" and seeing "demons" don't apply to "off the cuff banter"?

[former9thward]

51. I don't apply the same standards a comment that is made

off the cuff that I do to a thought out statement. Do you? Nobody that I know does either but maybe we travel in different circles.

[ClarkUSA]

41. Bullshit. Bubba is outright dissing Democrats and encouraging Paul Ryan like the DLC traitor he is.

[former9thward]

43. You just proved the accuracy of my statement.

[ClarkUSA]

44. How? By stating the truth, as Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell did last night?

Simplistic demonizing rhetoric by its very nature is irrelevant to any serious discussion of facts. I'll bet you think Bubba's Republican talking point re: the debt ceiling was simply "banter" too. That's why his spokesperson had to quickly step in and reverse what Bubba said, right?

[former9thward]

48. You mean the debt ceiling that Obama voted against in 2007?

See how that works?

[ClarkUSA]

52. So? Obama admitted that was a political ploy to get GOP concessions. Tell me, what is Bubba doing?

Besides repeating Republican talking points and encouraging Paul Ryan whilst bemoaning Democrats' lack of action, that is?

Bill Clinton: Brief Debt Default 'Might Not Be Calamitous':
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x679656

Those who excuse Bubba's sell-out sabataging statements prove that personality-based politics is alive and well.

[vaberella]

57. Uh? I don't hate him. But I didn't hear friendly banter. at. all.

He sounded like a dirty dealer.

[AtomicKitten]

70. I think some people still don't grasp the perils of cell phone cameras.

They document goings on at the most inconvenient times.

BClinton and many around him have had an itch to go after Medicare and Social Security for years now. He apparently forged a pact with Newt years ago to do just that, the Monica Lewinsky scandal thankfully derailing that.

Steven Gillon will discuss the details of how this secret agreement came to be, as first revealed in his new book, The Pact: Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, and the Rivalry That Defined a Generation.

http://andrewgbiggs.blogspot.com/2008/08/upcoming-event-how-bill-clinton-and.html

On October 28th, 1997, House Speaker Newt Gingrich and President Bill Clinton held a secret meeting where they reached a groundbreaking deal to create a centrist political coalition to reform Social Security and Medicare. Although the Lewinsky scandal ultimately undermined their agreement, the efforts of these men, and others in Congress, might serve as a model for members of both parties interested in addressing the long-term shortfalls in the nation's entitlement programs.

[elleng]

46. Saw it. He was suggesting they talk.

Politics is the art of negotiation, ya know.

Also saw him on a rerun of interview on C-Span. He's a serious thinker, still doing it.

[Avant Guardian]

79. Shhhhhhh!!

You'll ruin the fantasy!!

[elleng]

81. Thanks, Guardian; I needed that!

:hi:

[OwnedByFerrets]

97. When we (progressives) negotiate with repugs, we ALWAYS lose

We cannot negotiate Medicare. If we do, we lose. Its as simple as that. Leaving Medicare ALONE is a winning tactic. Oh, and btw, I HATE anyone who negotiates away my rights. If that includes Clinton, so be it.

[blm]

49. Who do you think sold Iraq war to Blair and then to DC Dems for Bush? Who used his summer2004 book

tour to 'vigorously defend' Bush's military decisions and leadership from the attacks by the left and the Dem nominee?

Bill....sometimes he's the life of a party and sometimes he's the death of a party.

[ClarkUSA]

50. "I'm glad we won the race in NY but I hope Democrats don't use this as an excuse to do nothing."

That's the money quote. Watch the video and read all about Bubba's secretive pact with Newt Gingrich re: Medicare "reform", too:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=679645&mesg_id=679834

Thank God Hillary isn't president.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[Beacool]

53. Another chance for the left to attack Bill?

Like that's news.....

:eyes:

[ClarkUSA]

54. No, it's another chance for "the left" to hold Bill accountable for his Republican sympathies...

Not that it's news that Bubba has them.

:eyes:

[Beacool]

55. We don't know what Bill meant.

The whole clip is only a few seconds long, but everyone here jumped on Bill's back. Same old crap as usual.

x(

[ClarkUSA]

56. I quoted him above. It's pretty clear to me what Bubba was doing. It sure wasn't defending Dems.

In fact, Bubba's comments could easily be used to sway DLC Democrats in Congress. I'd be surprised if the RNC isn't already on it.

Not to mention his ignorant and hastily spokesman-reversed Republican talking point that a debt default "might not be calamitous" to the economy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x679656

[vaberella]

58. It seemed fairly clear when he mentioned Medicare.

Anyway...that means nothing. Why would agree and side and tell Ryan he's doing good? There's no reason. He could have been polite and said hello. But he went out praising Paul.

[Vattel]

84. What praise are you talking about?

Please quote.

[Vattel]

63. It's amazing what people can read into that little chat.

Looking at it objectively, Clinton implies that he wants medicare reform (who doesn't?), he doesn't want Democrats to do nothing about Medicare reform, and he's willing to talk to Ryan about the issue. But it is impossible for those who hate all things Clinton to look at it objectively.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

83. Isn't it a...

hoot?

[ClarkUSA]

86. "Clinton implies that he wants medicare reform (who doesn't?)" Real Democrats do not, that's "who"!

The WH and Congressional Democrats don't want any part of Medicare "reform" w/the likes of Paul Ryan's plan. As Nancy Pelosi said, "We've got a plan; it's called Medicare."

Of course, Clinton has longed schemed secretly with the likes of Newt Gingrich to "reform" Medicare, but it's very interesting that some who are always accusing and attacking Pres. Obama for not being liberal or progressive are aggresively downplaying this obvious example of Clintonian DLC dirty dealing with the enemy or ignoring it completely. I highly doubt that would be the case if President Obama had been caught saying the same things to Paul Ryan backstage at a right-wing venue.

[ClarkUSA]

62. No, you're not the only one who saw Bubba sell Dems out. Fox News did, too & they are running w/it.

Read all about it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1180567&mesg_id=1180567

[Roy Ellefson]

66. triangulation

really, I can't see how any liberal can defend Clinton in that 'conversation.'

[Avant Guardian]

68. FOX?

lol

[JTFrog]

82. Yes, this shit is the perfect fodder for r/w sources like FOX.

Which is one of the big reasons some people are pissed.

[Vattel]

85. An offer to talk is an offer to make a deal?

[ClarkUSA]

87. "I'm glad we won the race in NY but I hope Democrats don't use this as an excuse to do nothing."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=680017&mesg_id=680334

Stop minimizing his DINO DLC backstabbing of Democrats. Clinton is definitely no liberal and he's sabotaging efforts of Democrats to hold the line against making deals with Paul Ryan and his ilk. It's revealing that some folks who always attack President Obama from the left on every issue including Medicare seem to be fine with Bill Clinton's DINO DLC sympathies with the worst example of right-wing ecomonic teabag nuttery aka. Paul Ryan and his "No More Medicare" budget.

[coalition_unwilling]

90. I am one of those who 'attack' Oama from the left (although I

don't think of it as 'attack', and certainly not on every issue), but I am in full 100% agreement with your assessment. Personally, I think the Democratic Party should give serious consideration to issuing a formal rebuke to Clinton and possibly a forcible expulsion from the party (if such is possible).

If Clinton wants to schmooze it up with RW kooks like Ryan, he's welcome to. But not as a leading member of the party of the New Deal and Great Society.

N.B. I 'attacked' Clinton from the left as often if not more so than I 'attack' Obama :)

[ClarkUSA]

91. I never thought of you as one who did that, either.

I have really learned who the honest Obama critics are during this debate. You are one of them and I respect that.

Now look what DINO Bill has wrought:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=433

<<Personally, I think the Democratic Party should give serious consideration to issuing a formal rebuke to Clinton and possibly a forcible expulsion from the party (if such is possible).>>

Never happen. The Clintons and their loyalists (DNC Chairwoman is one of them) are the 800-pound white gorilla in every Democratic room in DC.

<< If Clinton wants to schmooze it up with RW kooks like Ryan, he's welcome to. But not as a leading member of the party of the New Deal and Great Society.>>

I fully agree. Is he still bitter about 2008, a closet Republican after all those years being "Poppy's adopted son" or just jealous as hell over Pres. Obama's popularity and legacy eclipsing his? All of the above?

Whatever it is, he's poison to the party right now.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

92. He could do some work towards fixing this impression if he comes out and makes a statement.

Bill Clinton, that is, clarifying what the hell he was doing, since it looks bad on him.

[boppers]

95. Doing nothing.... is the end of medicare.

What *something* pieces should be done is where the debate belongs, not "don't touch anything" or "end the program", because both bizarrely polarized approaches will kill it, IMHO.... folks who care more about politics than public health are lining up on both sides, and both sides are stupid and wrong.

Is saying that totally useless "medicines" from GOP "health supplements" shills/donors... are actually medicine, and should be paid for, a smart solution? Nope.

Is saying that expensive tests, which have *no* effect on long term health, but line the pockets of testing corporations, a solution? Nope.

Meanwhile, there are folks lining up, with their witch-doctors, at the trough.

[Vattel]

96. Where was the offer to make a deal?

The remark that you quote is not an offer to make a deal. Both Clintons are way too far to the right for my tastes, but reading shit into Bill's remarks that isn't there isn't a very useful way to criticize him. Why not take issue with Clinton's actual position on Medicare?

[AtomicKitten]

98. As expected, his comments have dominated the Sunday gabfest

and not in a good way for Democrats.