ANY PAYMENT MANDATE/FINE IS POLITICAL SUICIDE

[Cronus Protagonist]

I can stomach almost all the other parts of this flawed bill, but I cannot and will not stand by and let them force America to tithe to corporations so the CEO can pay himself and the other robber barons (shareholders) money right out of the pockets of the poor, the sick and the dying (that's the rest of us).

I think we can promise a backlash so large and so deep that Mr. Obama will be forced to veto or be Public Enemy Number One. If Obama signs a mandate-containing bill, God help us all.




(Kick and recommend if you agree.)

[ananda]

1. The war on the poor needs to stop now.

I guess that also includes the war on the shrinking
middle class as well.

[Armstead]

2. I agree --

The only excuse for a mandate would be as part of public government single payer plan, with payments based on income.

[DesertFlower]

4. exactly. nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

7. We can do at least as well as the UK here, can't we?

No one in the UK pays for basic health care. We can do the same. All we have to do is cancel a ship, a plance, or a couple of warheads and we can fund it entirely out of budget savings.

[DesertFlower]

3. i wouldn't mind if it were a public option.

the thing is if you can't afford it the government will give you the money to pay the insurance company. is that crazy or not?

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. It's not crazy for FASCISTS

It's normal for them to want to merge the robber barons with the state.

[GoCubsGo]

24. Yup. Just more looting of our treasury.

Can't wait to see what other means of doing that they come up with in the future.

[Cronus Protagonist]

27. Yeah, the Treasury AND mine and your pockets as well!

This is fascism.

[ima_sinnic]

5. I recced but the astroturfers had to do their duty first

eventually they will be outnumbered.

you have stated it exactly the way I see it too. :cry:

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. Thanks!

Every rec and post counts! :^D

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. It's the model taken from the car insurance business pure & simple.

Don't expect any relief or discounts, just endless stupid Geico commercials.

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. I do think the "leadership" in both houses are missing one important point

This merging of corporation and state is unAmerican. Totally unAmerican. It's fascism and people will rise against them when confronted with "Your cash or jail". They may not rise up in opposition for much else, but when it's their wallets being raped, they notice, and they take action. It's political suicide and somehow they don't see the backlash coming? How myopic!

[depakid]

10. That and worse

at least there's ostensibly state regulation of the auto insurance industry (similar regulation can and will be circumvented in the Senate bill).

[Armstead]

15. Except do not have to buy a car

You have to be born

[Cronus Protagonist]

16. Yeah, I don't own a car any more

And so I don't have to pay insurance for that, but I'll always own my body, unless it's shoved into a jail for non-payment of a fine for breathing, which is this dumb-ass health tax they're putting into the law of the land!

[handmade34]

11. strongly agree

I can support the bill as a good beginning, if, there is no mandate for me to buy from for-profit insurance companies. I would gladly pay to support a program that provided helath care for all with no profit motive.

[Cronus Protagonist]

13. I think we can use the UK as a model here

And even their system was trashed by Mad Maggie, the Iron "Lady", but it recovered somewhat after she withered away.

[TheKentuckian]

12. Even with auto you at least can shop your options to mitigate your reaming

We get you'll pay it to the government sanctioned monopoly and like it.

How are you going to mandate private insurance but force almost everyone to take whatever their job has, like it or not. With open exchanges they could at least sell market principles and it might work somewhat but a mandate with no choices and almost no regulation or grievance resolution is poison.

Plus, the Republicans will eventually find a way to gut the subsidies but leave the then "bipartisan" mandate and everyone will be screwed. Even if they don't hurt their friend's profits it won't mean anyone gets care since they'll just maintain premiums at an agreed level but shift costs to the consumer.

You've got to have some real price controls. No public program should have automatically resulted in very serious oversight, choice for all, and regulation along with strong enforcement mechanisms but this thing has just melted completely down to the point of chanting 31 million more covered and we'll fight another day but suck it up for the foreseeable and take one for the team.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. So we keep hearing

[Cronus Protagonist]

18. Really?

All I've been hearing is that the mandate would be FINE as long as there is a public option. In fact, I hear that so much on DU that I'm absolutely certain it's a talking point of the propagandists.

I say that ANY mandate is poison. Public option pairing or not. Perhaps there's more agreement on that than I've seen on here specifically, but hey, I do my bit!

[TheKentuckian]

19. The mandate doesn't make sense

What is being mandated is a for profit and largely unregulated product that the person mandated almost never even has the ability to shop for the plan that works best for them.

Auto insurance is mandated but no one tells you to take whatever work offers, at whatever cost and like it.

At the barest minimum they have to allow everyone to use the exchanges and since the companies have been apparently gifted the Republican talking point of competing across state lines (aka holing up where the regs are most lax) the exchanges should be NATIONAL purchasing pools.

What we have here is toxic nonsense. How are you going to mandate a for profit product with no market?

How can this even be pitched to anyone with any processing power at all? Its not like they are claiming that we are going to allow people to shop and depend on market forces to lower costs. This particular mandate is now purely in place to prevent the insurance companies from "getting screwed" when someone comes off the street with triple the normal premium in hand when something comes up and they didn't have coverage already in place.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Predictions predictions

[BzaDem]

21. Just because it doesn't tickle YOUR fancy doesn't mean it is political suicide.

It won't even take effect until 2014 (well into Obama's second term), so I really doubt it. Nice try though.

[Armstead]

23. Damage won't be felt for a few years? That's a great reason to support it

[Cronus Protagonist]

29. lol

I think her slip is showing.

[Cronus Protagonist]

28. Straw man argument

You are completely discounting the hay the other side will make with such a mandate.

And I never made the case that, if it doesn't tickle MY fancy it is political suicide. I made the case that if you mandate cash to come out of the people's paychecks on the pain of fines and ultimately imprisonment, you will be committing political suicide because the people of American will REVOLT against such a draconian system.

Of course, you know that, which is why you had to create your own straw man argument in order to be able to snootily dismiss your own argument.

You had to do that simply because the facts are clearly in favor of my actual argument, which you did not address at all. I wonder what you have to gain from wanting this horrific future to unfold. Which side are you on?

[eridani]

22. This could destroy the Democratic party for a long time

Unless the Repukes keep acting even crazier, and we shouldn't be counting on that.

[Armstead]

25. Crazier like foxes

If a bill passes that even Democrats don't really like, the GOP is going to be sitting in the catbirds seat.

[FormerDittoHead]

26. Then vote for Obama! He's AGAINST mandates!

:sarcasm: