The Preisident folded his hand because he did not have the cards

[Perky]

He did not have the votes on a public option. He did not have the votes for the a Medicare Buy-in. He was not going to bluff his way to Sixty votes.. H awa not going to gaoo all in when he had a bad hand and the night was still young.

He looked at table.... He looked an the what the other players had and new that anything with a public option was not going to get through the Senate and because anything without a public option would not not make it back to the House. They were going to play this out for three mor months and at the end of the day there was going to be nothing at all to show for a year of effort.

But he still has some chips to play with.

He has conference.
He has reconciliation
He has the possibility of opening up the Federal employee program without any legislation requirement.

He did not cut and run. He cut his losses.

You may call him a chicken, but it was the smarter pathe to takt

[valerief]

1. And just think how much richer those for-profit ins cos will be! That's the whole

kit and caboodle.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Are we trying to punish insurance companies and drug companies,

or are we trying to get some form of health insurance coverage for people who don't have it or can't afford it? Sometimes I forget what our purpose is, here.

[Perky]

4. wait for the response.

it will be "why can't we do both"

[Moochy]

28. you are so meta

you verge on quasi.

[valerief]

5. Medicare for All would provide healthcare to all afforably. But the needs

of America aren't the key to this bill. It's the needs of the for-profits.

Before Reagan, health insurance was not for profit. Back when it was affordable.

[TwilightGardener]

9. I definitely think single-payer is the way to go, for a whole host of reasons.

(Not least of which, I have sort of government-run single-payer right now, and like it). Whether Medicare or some other form. But I really doubt that the entire point of this bill was to enrich the co's. It was meant to help fill an immediate need. The corporations will make a profit, and the mandate is annoying, but I can understand why Democrats are working within the existing framework, and why they compromised to get some concessions from these industries.

[valerief]

14. It started out with NOT decommissioning for-profit health insurance.

Given that, it could ONLY be a giveaway/bailout/plundering to them.

[TwilightGardener]

16. There was no way we were going to dismantle a huge industry like that.

Best we could realistically hope for was a public option to force price and service competition, for now. It bugs me that the insurance companies and drug companies "win" by getting more of our business with possibly not enough controls--BUT, what is the control on them now? They provide a product that most people cannot easily refuse, if we want to live to a normal lifespan or don't want to lose everything in a serious illness. They have us by the short hairs, and the GOP certainly isn't ever going to fix that. At least this bill seeks to address some of the worst practices WITHIN THE SYSTEM, it just doesn't go far enough to guarantee affordability.

[valerief]

17. So there was no way they were going to give America afforable health insurance, since that industry

keeps it unaffordable.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Sadly, no--they are going to give subsidies to pay the insurance co's prices.

With the hope, of course, that enough healthy people will be paying into the system that eventually overall costs will go down (sort of like car insurance--the costs of the uninsured who get into wrecks are ultimately paid for by the insured, keeping costs high). I'm skeptical of that, but I guess it's worth a shot.

[valerief]

20. For-Profit Health Insurance is just a middleman we don't need. nt

[TwilightGardener]

21. On that, we agree. It's obsolete. We already have several forms of single payer

for certain groups--that horse has left the barn. Just have to work on expanding that idea--but I think that will be years down the road, not this time around.

[valerief]

23. So this time it's carloads of money for the for-profits. Maybe someday

a country with universal healthcare will invade us and we can get it, too.

[dionysus]

33. explain how we'd have the votes for that.

you can't.

[krawhitham]

24. they do not have the votes for Medicare for All

not even 50 votes

[rapturedbyrobots]

26. we are not trying to get coverage for anyone

that's the critical point you are missing. health CARE reform should be about getting health CARE to people who can't afford it. not insurance. and yes...that would be a punishment to insurance companies who make profits by taking your premiums and trying every which way to deny you care.

[TwilightGardener]

27. You can't take insurance out of the equation. Which makes your point meaningless.

[rapturedbyrobots]

38. the stupid...it hurts

people around here obviously lack critical reading (and possibly thinking) skills.

1) you can take insurance companies out of the equation. that's what single payer is.
2) if you do keep the insurance companies in the mix, no one would argue that they shouldn't collect premiums ( i certainly didn't say anything of the sort). that's their business. the only argument is that they should be required to hold up their end of the bargain and pay out benefits after collecting your premium. then and only then would coverage translate directly to care.

lacking #2, coverage is just coverage, and there is NO guarantee that the covered will actually receive necessary care. there's a whole movie about people who have insurance but can't get care...its called SICKO...remember that? no? well watch it.

so...making it easier for (or requiring) people to get coverage without making it difficult or impossible for the insurance companies to deny care does NOTHING to solve the health care crisis.

[Fire1]

42. No, it *burns.* n/t

[treestar]

36. Yes, the insurance companies should just pay the claims, without

collecting premiums. Because they are rich and they are large.


:sarcasm:

[treestar]

35. yes, I think that is the point

Even though insurance companies will be more regulated and won't like it, it's better to punish them than to get money to pay for health care to the people. Insurance companies are so evil that it's better that some should die due to lack of health care than have to deal with them and their product.

You see, we will just be paying premiums to the health insurance companies, and they will never pay out of single dime in claims. That's what the POTUS wants. :sarcasm:

Insurance companies are evil, you see, because they are large and demand to be paid premiums before they will pay claims. !

[Milo_Bloom]

2. IF he actually plays those chips, I will apologize.

However, after seeing him fail to play his chips with the banks, fail to play his chips with credit card reform, fail to play his chips with Afghanistan, I suspect he isn't quite as bright as people gave him credit for.

[HereSince1628]

6. Except that at any point he could simply halt the game.

His staff handled this poorly. He handled his staff and his recommendation to Congress poorly. He led poorly.
Going forward isn't necessarily leading. And at every time as the head of the party he chose to go forward.

The lack of any sort of a coherent health care reform package to peddle during the August recess signalled that this project was not ready to move forward. The GOP pounced on it and subdued it as if it was an etherized mouse. It's never been ready to go forward, political science students will talk about it as one of the dumbest moves ever made by a President who decided to keep his enemies close.

[ima_sinnic]

11. ++++1 the lack of leadership has been astounding (nt)

[davidwparker]

7. You could spin it this way. I'm not buying it. I'm seeing his performance as

weak and ineffective.

[DrToast]

8. He never anted.*

[Perky]

10. Oc course he did.

He went on to Congress and told them what he wanted.

[OHdem10]

12. Will you concede , this would have been different if had from day

one, found ways to communicate with the American People
bringing them to his side rather than leaving the TV airways
open for GOP to exploit and sadly bring the people at least
some to their side.+

[Perky]

18. Yes. If you will concede thatwhat you are saying is Monday Morning QBing

He made a decision early on not to push his own plan through because or What happened with Clinton in 1995 when Congress did not feel they were part of the process. I will also conde that the strtaegy og letting Congress lead lost momentum largely due to the only thing wnted to talk about after his speech was the "YOu lie" comment. It went off the rails then

[NJmaverick]

13. As the old song goes- you got to know when to hold them... when to fold them

when to walk away and when to run

[timeforpeace]

15. He hasn't folded. He just passed the deal. He's still in.

[Laelth]

22. I wish he would fold. He'd be better off doing nothing at this point. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Skittles]

25. huh?

WTF does that have to do with handing out big favors to insurance companies?

[iceman66]

29. Exactly.

Obama isn't given enough credit for trying to get a good bill passed. He just ran into too much opposition from members of his own party.

What a lot of the posters here don't seem to get is that people like Blanche Lincoln and Ben Nelson don't care if Obama suceeds or not, or if the uninsured get health care. They only care about themselves. No amount of pressure from the President would have got them to vote the way he wants them to.

[Armstead]

30. He would have a winning hand if he would take Dean's advice now

That would be the path of least resistance.

Cut the crap out of the bill, focus on passing a version with the real benefits to real people now, and take the time to build a more comprehensive solution for the stickier issues and come back with that.

He'd have his "win" on healthcare right away. It would do good without doing harm, and allow for a better system to be biult subsequently. It would also be more acceptable to voters.

I don't understand why they were not stubborn on the public option, but they remain stubborn on mandates.

[BlueIdaho]

31. One problem - he's playing with our chips

and he's about to write an IOU to the insurance companies to stay in the game but we're gonna be the ones left to settle-up after he strolls away from the table cool as a cucumber.

[ShortnFiery]

32. He never TRIED. If he did he would have started with "Single Payer" on the table and

negotiated down from there.

[dionysus]

34. you can't compromise down from something that never had support.

single payer never had even CLOSE to enough support to go anywhere.

how do you not understand this?

there was never enough votes to get single payer OUT OF COMMITTEE.

blue dogs that won't do a public option NEVER WOULD VOTE FOR SINGLE PAYER.

jesus christ, can you not grasp a simple, obvious fact?

[paulk]

39. do you mean support from the public

or support from the special interests that run our government?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106969104


It's funny, I always thought a real leader would stand up for the people rather than kneel down for the special interests.


And you know what's really funny? How someone can go from being one of the biggest uber leftists on this board to an apoligist for centrists and bluedogs. I realize Obama looks good in a bathing suit, but gee whiz...

[dionysus]

43. support in the houses of congress paul.

you have a good memory.

perhaps after 8 years of constant outrage, i'm burnt out.

maybe it's because after that 8 years, on DU, it took less then a year for support to crumble.

it's depressing.

[paulk]

45. yes, plenty of sore knees to go around

it's depressing

Obama is not going to get support from the left, or even the liberal wing of the party, until he starts acting with the courage he showed as a candidate. He needs to stand up for the people who put him in office. And we, as liberals, need to tell him to stand up for us - I really don't see that as a lack of support - just a reminder of who he really represents.

And it's not Joe Lieberman over Howard Dean.

[polichick]

37. Hell, he had the ace of single payer and tossed it under the table...

...while showing his adversaries all his other cards.


On edit: I know, I know, healthcare/pharma cos aren't really his adversaries.

[dionysus]

44. you know, be pissed about it, that's fine. but please dont act as if the blue dogs were rearing to

pass single payer and obama stopped them. they wouldn't even pass a public option. there's a whole lot of blame to spread around.

[Impedimentus]

40. Just curious ...

you said "The President folded his hand because he did not have the cards."

Did he tell you this in person or send you a message from his Blackberry?

[Perky]

41. Posted on my FaceBook wall actually.