Dean's 50 states strategy is more to blame for failed HCR than Barack Obama

[LovinLife]

I refuse to believe this man all of a sudden doesn't believe in things that he seemed to be really convinced about months ago. I think Obama wanted a Public Option, but Reid and others told him their was no way certain Dems would ever support it. I think he made a deal w/ Pharma becuz they would've got Dems to go against their own party. I think the main problem are the Republacrats that call themselves Democrats.

[grantcart]

1. I think that reclassifying Pluto from a planet to a "cosmic rock" was more relevent

than Dean's 50 state strategy to HCR.

[depakid]

2. You misunderstand the 50 state strategy vs. Rahm's recruit Republicrats plan

[polichick]

3. True. nt

[depakid]

7. Dean: go to the guys with confederate flags on their trucks and point out

that they and their families need well paid jobs, health care and better education for their kids like everyone else- so it makes sense for them to support progressive policies that will make that happen.

[polichick]

13. Exactly - as opposed to drafting conservadems. nt

[Ildem09]

35. Indeed

Sweet Jesus Without the 50 state plan (which Rahmbo opposed btw) the Dem's wouldn't have been the majority in 2006, and the entire course of modern political history would have been changed. It's getting pretty crowded down here under the bus

[avaistheone1]

43. Even the stupid corporate media understood that Dean's 50 state plan was what won the election for

Obama.

[avaistheone1]

42. +1

[HereSince1628]

4. I don;t understand just one thing about your reply==

WTF does your reply have to do with the 50 state strategy?

[bluestateguy]

5. Dean annoys me, but I will not put all that on Dean

Rahm as DCCC Chairman also recruited many of these Blue Dogs who now won't vote with us, and Dean (who actually hates Rahm) certainly encouraged this type of approach, which could only mean that more DLC type of Democrats would emerge.

We won in 2006 and 2008, with a Democratic majority and then an even bigger Democratic majority. But we neglected to demand candidates who would actually behave as solid progressives on the bread and butter issues that are the DNA of being a Democrat. I am, however, glad that we elected more pro-gun Democrats. I see that as a good positive thing.

[rwheeler31]

6. Do you see any new Democrats raising a fuss,

no it is the old bought off ones.

[OHdem10]

8. Are you saying our President is such a weak little victim, he could

could not muster some heft against that really tough Reid???

If Obama had wanted a PO, he would have pulled a Reagan
or a Clinton and gone to airways over the Media and
made his case to American People bringing them along.
Instead he left the airways open and the GOP went to the
people and sadly they believe the GOP.Politics is not
bean bag. You must fight for everything.

[madfloridian]

9. This is amazing.

:eyes:

[dionysus]

24. i'm not sure but i think it's playing both sides of the issue trying to get ppl to argue...

[Capn Sunshine]

44. paid by the word or by the hour

or the post? I imagine the latter. What's more amazing is how gullible DUers are.

[still_one]

10. If Obama wanted a public option, why were advocates of single payer excluded

from the initial talks?

Why in August were senior advisors blaming the left for "public option" problems:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anonymous-white-house-official-slams-liberals-over-public-option.php

I disagree based on the administrations actions

Why did drug importation lose, with 30 Democrats voting against it?

Something doesn't pass the smell test

[NJmaverick]

11. Oh this is going to be unpopular as th truth rarely is around here

[nightrain]

12. I dunno if the 50 State strategy is MORE to blame, but I have also wondered

if it hasn't played a (major) factor in this debacle. It reminds me of a recent poll on DU--"purist vs power--which is more important in the Dem Party?" In the striving to get a numerical majority and then the super majority, corporatist Dems were elected. I imagine some of them hold some similar values as other Dems, but apparently not on some of our most recent issues.

Nevertheless, it's Obama's job to work with who and what he's got. He's responsible for the outcome, and process to some degree.

I suggest that people take another look at a recent HuffPo article that describes one person's take on Obama's character and Obama's tendency to sidestep/avoid conflict. It might be his political death knell unless he learns to work more adroitly with conflict. Here's the link--

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bromwich/character-of-barack-obama_b_251186.html

[Zodiak]

14. Not a very good argument

Dean did not recruit any turncoats at all in this round of legislation.

It's the same DLC turds that always float to the top of the bowl along witht he biggest turd of all, Leiberman.

The same DLC that is running around the WH spitting in the face of the base right now.

[asdjrocky]

15. God you are a massive idiot.

[LovinLife]

17. Can I call this person a name or will I get banned becuz I don't have a 1000 post? NT

[asdjrocky]

18. I apologize for calling you an idiot.

If you feel the need to alert on the thread I completely understand, and if I were a mod, I'd probably remove it.

So, sorry to the mod for the extra work as well.

You are obviously not an idiot because you have at the very least basic writing, reading and computer skills, so it was wrong for me to call you a name.

Feel free to call me whatever you like now, it's only fair.

[LovinLife]

20. I don't alert. Its against my rules. That's like running to a teacher or something. I forgive u. NT

[asdjrocky]

23. Now I can sleep tonight, thank you.

[dionysus]

27. nicely done.

:thumbsup:

[asdjrocky]

30. In the words of Garth-

"I like to play."

[dionysus]

33. it doesn't matter if i disagree with you on some things.. that was classic pwnage

:thumbsup:

[DURHAM D]

19. +1

[LovinLife]

21. I forgive u to. NT

[PBS Poll-435]

41. I forgive u two. NT

[BlueIdaho]

16. I broke a shoelace today - I'm pretty sure it was Dean's fault...

[dionysus]

22. Dean slam FAIL....

:rofl:
i kinda agree with the body of your post but blaming Dean is ludicrous...

[MichiganVote]

25. Or....he could just be another politican full of crap. Oh wait...God worship is in these days.

[napoleon_in_rags]

26. You're totally right.

I gotta comment after seeing this post get knocked down by so many responses. The issue with HCR is the conservative Dems, period. The alternative option to the 50 state strategy would have been letting Republicans take control though. The issue is, would that have been better? I don't think so, because it seems so many people in the base actually think the president makes legislature, so Obama would still be taking the blame for bad calls on the part of a Republican controlled legislature. Its a messy situation.

[dionysus]

29. the fallacy in this meme is blaming the 50 state strategy. ppl like lieberman weren't elected by

the 50 state strategy. i think at least half of the blue douche dogs aren't rookies, so that destroys the argument.

it's correct the 6 or so "dems" are ruining the bill. but to say that it's dean's fault is as stupid as the people who say the blue dogs\lieberman are acting on obama's direct commands...

[napoleon_in_rags]

32. That's an interesting point, you might be right.

My impression was always that the 50 state strategy was about making the tent a little bigger to appeal to more traditional red state voters, and thus while we won, we took on some DINOs. I just looked up Ben Nelson and poked around a little, and what you're saying might be right, so I and the OP may have the wrong idea... Regardless, I don't think the point is Dean trashing, I'm just trying to make heads or tails of why so many Dems in congress are acting so conservatively. What I do know is its a larger issue than Obama.

[dionysus]

34. the blue dogs live in red states with small populations. they have unporportionate power. they're

the ones killing this bill.

to get cloture, dems need every senator plus lieberman. it's basically a given that no republican will vote for this. the speculation about snowe voting for it... i'm from maine, it's bullshit.

the conspiracy theories that Obama is masterminding this for some kind of payday is so ridiculous it's sad. or that all the dems are in on it. oh yeah, they'll all commit political suicide for what, a briefcase full of cash?

these handfull of conservative dems have found themselves in a situation of great power, and they are now lording it over all the other democrats despite the fact they're killing the bill.

a lot of people here think we can start over with a more badass bill. gimme a fucking break. take the bill we have now, replace it with single payer, and watch it die in committee.

[napoleon_in_rags]

40. You're right. That's why I'm a little more optimistic than many here though:

take the bill we have now, replace it with single payer, and watch it die in committee.

Of course. I think the real hope for this bill is not that it will be great, but if it will lay some foundation stones for a future reform in ANY direction rather than being a complete kludge. If this whole debate comes up again years down the road, in terms of what things from this reform should go but also what should stay, that will be progress. The real issue here is breaking the grip of literally centuries of total inertia on this issue, and having health care debated in this way. Once people see the status quo is not set in stone, then forward motion is possible in various directions of reform. At least this is the hope I see in this situation.

[LovinLife]

36. I also think Obama can't use reconciliation becuz he knows he wont have the 50 votes. The party as a

whole is the problem. Plus Obama has no power over people who were elected in states he has no chance of winning.

[cliffordu]

28. Completely without merit, this 'argument'

A minimum of data to support your position would be welcome.

[Old Codger]

31. You are slightly naive

Actually a lot naive if you think that pols don;t lie always while campaigning, that is sop for them they always lie and they always do whatever they can to get reelected, except this time around it appears as if none of them want to be re-elected How do you tell if a politician is lying? his lips are moving

[JVS]

37. You don't have a proper understanding of what Dean's 50 state strategy is/was

Read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean#50-state_strategy

Also note "While it is likely this is also attributable to the shortcomings of the Republican Party in their dealings with the Iraq War and the scandals that occurred shortly before the election, Dean's emphasis on connecting with socially conservative, economic moderates in previous Republican states appears to have made some impact." This is antithetical to the DLC and the conservadems. DLC is generally socially moderate and economically conservative, conservadems are conservative in both. It is not social moderates who kill HCR it is economic conservatives.

[Raine]

38. You're really reaching

this is one of the silliest things I've come across here in the last few days. :rofl:

[Telly Savalas]

39. I'm not sure I follow.

Are you suggesting that if Democrats who won in red states due to Dean's 50 state strategy were replaced by Republicans then we'd have a better health care proposal in the Senate?

[hlthe2b]

45. Geebus... they're coming out of the nutsy woodwork today...

Do some reading, LL... Your lack of understanding of some key issues is showing...