Here's the question

[Ken Burch]

If the healthcare bill remains in it's current McDonald's Filet-O-Guano state, and is signed into law with BigPremiumJoe in attendance at the Rose Garden, and then we just go ahead and work for the reelection of all these people with no questions asked, aren't we pretty much giving up not only our principles, but our dignity and self-respect as well?

I mean fine, we have to make sure Antichrist Barbie doesn't get the chance to fielddress the country, but what choice would we have that would remain "loyal" and would not, at the same time, be total surrender?

What is "loyalty" here? And to what should we be loyal FIRST?

Could somebody come up with some answers that make sense?

[babylonsister]

1. Your question is simplistic and sucks. I want a bill.

I want a bill for me selfishly, who will be w/o health care soon, to have something to perhaps hope for, and I want a bill so the rethugs can't run riot over the Dems.

I want a bill.

[Ken Burch]

2. Even if it's a bill like the one we have now, where the rich win and the people lose?

It's never "reform" if those on the bottom lose ground.

[babylonsister]

4. Prove to me the rich win and the poor lose.

I can give you tons of reasons to promote a health care bill. I've done so for weeks. If you choose to think nothing will come of the bill, that's your choice.

[Ken Burch]

6. The mandates and no real cost control

It means people are forced to buy insurance, and forced to buy it AT the price the insurers demand. This will leave a lot of people unable to afford rent, making them homeless. And it gets worse if you LOSE your job.

Nothing in the current bill makes up for the mandates.

[sandnsea]

7. That is a load

The subsidies will keep the premium affordable and is really all there needs to be to control costs. You don't think the insurance companies are stupid enough to price themselves out of boatloads of govt money, do you? They'll keep the premiums&subsidies at an affordable rate to keep the gravy train coming in.

If you lose your job, you're likely to be at 150% of poverty and get Medicaid. Only someone who has not been on both Medicaid and regular insurance would say Medicaid is worse.

[babylonsister]

10. Thank you. Ken is a load. nt

[DJ13]

3. Loyalty to the poor, the workers, and yourself

Party shouldnt be the test of loyalty at this point, as those in charge of our party have lost sight of the fact we once stood for the poor and the workers, NOT the wealthy and the powerful.

[tblue]

5. I struggle with that dilemma, too. And damn them to hell for making us choose between the two.

Pisses me off that we are even put in this position.

[Capn Sunshine]

8. How about some honest work?

Ground up. Take over your local party if you don't like the state of things.
Work for more progressive legislation. Join a pressure group like DFA or PDA.

Just stop speculating on how your're going to get buttfucked in some future year. Or bend over. The choice is yours.

[Ken Burch]

9. Good advice.

Could have done without the gratuitously homophobic last line, but good advice.

This isn't the time for self-pity, but clarity.