"Kennedy later regretted rejecting Nixon’s proposal" (Universal HC)

[NJmaverick]

History is a great teacher if we are willing to listen:

In fact, the Obama health-reform package Kennedy supported in his last days is similar to one Kennedy helped defeat when proposed by President Richard Nixon. If anything, the Obama plan is more conservative. Nixon would have mandated that all employers offer coverage to their employees, while creating a subsidized government insurance program for all Americans that employer coverage did not reach. It would take a miracle to pass such a plan today—a public insurance plan and an employer mandate are two provisions of the proposals now in Congress that are most in doubt.

But Kennedy helped kill Nixon’s proposal not only because he preferred a government insurance option for everyone, but because he believed it was politically achievable.

President Jimmy Carter did not make health reform a priority, however, and Kennedy later regretted rejecting Nixon’s proposal. “It was a rare moment in his Senate career where he made a fundamental miscalculation about what was politically possible—a lot of liberals did,” says Yale University political scientist and progressive health-reform advocate Jacob Hacker. “What was not recognized by anyone at the time was that this was the end of the New Deal era. What would soon come crashing over them was the tax revolts” that ushered in Ronald Reagan and a conservative, antigovernment philosophy.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/08/26/echoes-of-kennedy-s-battle-with-nixon-in-health-care-debate.aspx

[HopeOverFear]

1. damn...*smh*

[timeforpeace]

44. Epic Fail. See below.

[treestar]

2. this country was so liberal in the 70s!

Even Nixon was proposing a health care plan. What happened?

[AllentownJake]

3. Ronald Reagan nt.

[hileeopnyn8d]

4. This is the correct answer. nt.

[NJmaverick]

18. Reagan helped, but he capitlized on mistakes made by liberals of the 70s

[AllentownJake]

19. What liberals of the 70s?

Carter, Ford, or Nixon?

You could argue liberals of the 60s.

The only mistake Carter made was to tell the Americans the truth about the state of the economy. Reagan came in and blamed government for all the world's problems wrapped in an American Flag endorsed by the Christian Right, which used to be the conservatives in the democratic party we had to fight with over giving African Americans equal rights in the 1960s.

[AllentownJake]

5. Nixon would be a Left Bagger in 2009 nt.

[BeyondGeography]

6. Saw this earlier...thanks for posting

[DJ13]

7. It was better than the crap they're now trying to sell us

Was that the point of this?

[AllentownJake]

8. Yes President Nixon is to the left of the modern Democratic Party

and that isn't sarcasm.

[DJ13]

12. Kinda scary how far we've fallen as a country, isnt it?

[AllentownJake]

13. I'd say who I blame but that opens up a flame war

So I'll just keep my mouth shut.

[Poll_Blind]

16. I'm going to have a little lie-down right now because I think you're onto something. And thinking...

...about your point is making me feel dizzy.

PB

[NJmaverick]

9. I'm hoping we don't suffer the same regrets ourselves

[AllentownJake]

10. If we are suffering that regret we are in re-education camps

because the only way the right can get further right is to go full blown fascist.

[NJmaverick]

14. It's not about the nation being liberal or conservative, it's an issue of control of Congress

things could get more republican in the very near future.

[AllentownJake]

15. The GOP ideology of the 70s is a lot different than the GOP ideology now

You have to remember the 1980 GOP primary and look at the debates and rhetoric of Bush I vs. Reagan.

[slipslidingaway]

11. News video from the early 1970's on the HC debate ...

National Health Insurance Debate Under Nixon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGKkPEvD2OM

Posted here 2 years ago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=76793&mesg_id=76793

[NJmaverick]

17. Thanks for posting this

[slipslidingaway]

51. You're welcome and more here ...

"...There have been three cycles of health care reform in the last half century – 1970-73, 1992-1994, and 2007 to date. At the dawn of each cycle, single-payer legislation had already been introduced. But early in the cycle, single-payer legislation was “taken off the table” (to quote a statement Sen. Max Baucus now wishes he had never made). Each time the
http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/08/reply-to-critics-of-%e2%80%9cbait-and-switch-how-the-%e2%80%98public-option%e2%80%99-was-sold%e2%80%9d/

"...Democratic leadership chose instead market-based proposals that had no track record and no evidence to support them. Each time they favored reform deemed more “politically feasible” than single-payer because it left the insurance industry in place. In all three cycles, the alternative, market-based proposal was promoted by one or two policy entrepreneurs (that is to say, it wasn’t an idea that bubbled up from the grassroots).

Single-payer legislation was the first out of the chute during the 1970-1973 cycle. In January 1970, Sen. Ted Kennedy introduced what we would today call a single-payer bill. But Kennedy and other leading Democrats quickly abandoned single-payer in favor of a theory about cost containment called the “health maintenance strategy.” This strategy revolved around a new-fangled type of insurance company proposed by a Minnesota physician named Paul Ellwood that Ellwood called the “health maintenance organization.”

Ellwood would become rich and famous selling his HMO idea. He single-handedly convinced President Richard Nixon to endorse legislation to subsidize the formation of HMOs all over the country. While Ellwood worked the Republicans, the AFL-CIO worked the Democrats. Within a year, Kennedy and many other Democrats had been persuaded to abandon the single-payer approach in favor of legislation that would subsidize HMOs. The 1970-1973 cycle ended with the enactment of the HMO Act of 1973. Thus was the world’s first HMO industry born. As we all know now, the HMO experiment failed..."

[Laelth]

20. Nixon's proposal was a lot better than what we're being offered now.

I doubt Kennedy would regret voting "no" on the current, proposed corporate give-away plan.

:dem:

-Laelth

[NJmaverick]

21. Those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it

and there will be regrets once more when health care reform is left undone for yet another generation.

As for Kennedy, the unreccs show what you guys think of this great man.

[Laelth]

22. I do not accept the premise that change will take that long.

The current system is unsustainable, and everyone knows it. Change will come, eventually, UNLESS we pass the disastrous bill that's currently on the table.

California will probably pass single-payer on its own in 2011. All they need is a Democratic Governor. The legislature has already passed the bill. Schwarzenegger vetoed it. Once California has single-payer, most (if not all) states will follow suit.

It's likely that if we pass a new law now, the new law will preempt single-payer, i.e. the Federal law will preempt state law and prevent states from enacting a single-payer system.

THIS is what the health insurance companies fear. THIS is what brought them to the bargaining table. THIS is why they are not fighting Obama's tepid reforms, and THIS is why it is extremely important that we do not pass any health insurance reform bill this year.

Let's not settle for a bail-out of the health insurance industry. Let's insist on the eradication of it. In all likelihood, California will lead the way in 2011 ... if we can just give them time.

Canada got its single-payer system one province at a time. That seems to be the way it will have to happen in the U.S.

:dem:

-Laelth

[NJmaverick]

23. I see a problem with your position

you say health care must be reformed because you say they are unsustainable. Yet you say that flaws in the current bill will not be changed, even though the way people talk about those flaws they are equally unsustainable.

[karynnj]

45. He wouldn't vote no

Senator Kirk was a close ally of his and he is not voting no.

[NJmaverick]

50. No doubt about it, Kennedy was a brilliant man who was not going to make the same mistake twice

[Mass]

24. The Plum LineGreg Sargent's blog Kennedy Historians: It’s False To Conclude Kennedy Would Have Ditch

Ditched Public Option For Compromise

People differ on their interpretation of what Kennedy regretted and there does not seem to be any direct quote of Kennedy saying this.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/bipartisanship/kennedy-historians-its-false-to-conclude-kennedy-would-have-ditched-public-option-for-compromise/

Since Ted Kennedy’s death, it’s been widely asserted that one of his greatest regrets was that he turned down a health care deal with Richard Nixon. Having learned this lesson, goes this line, Kennedy would have wanted Dems to sacrifice mightily for a compromise with Republicans this year on health care — perhaps even giving up the public option.

But several Kennedy historians have now told us in interviews that this is a severe oversimplification of history that shouldn’t lead us to that conclusion at all.
...
t’s true that Nixon and Kennedy negotiated over how to do universal health care — Nixon wanted to do it through private insurers; Kennedy through the government — and that both sides ended up walking away from the table.
...
“Kennedy was sorry that they didn’t reach an agreement” and that both sides “never reached closure,” Clymer told our reporter, Amanda Erickson. He dismissed the idea that Kennedy regretted not giving up enough: “That’s not the same thing at all.”
...
r. Janet Heininger, who interviewed Kennedy extensively for the Kennedy Oral History Project, said the two historical moments — each with different proposals and public moods — are not remotely comparable. She said the parallel is too tortured to conclude much of anything, let alone that the lesson is to “compromise with Republicans now.”

“I don’t think that’s what he would have wanted us to take from it,” she concluded.

In addition, remember that Kennedy, in his last editorial about healthcare written just before he died, said the public option was an important element of bill and that he could not see how it would work without it.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/207406/page/1

To accomplish all of this, we have to cut the costs of health care. For families who've seen health-insurance premiums more than double—from an average of less than $6,000 a year to nearly $13,000 since 1999—one of the most controversial features of reform is one of the most vital. It's been called the "public plan." Despite what its detractors allege, it's not "socialism." It could take a number of different forms. Our bill favors a "community health-insurance option." In short, this means that the federal government would negotiate rates—in keeping with local economic conditions—for a plan that would be offered alongside private insurance options. This will foster competition in pricing and services. It will be a safety net, giving Americans a place to go when they can't find or afford private insurance, and it's critical to holding costs down for everyone.

[NJmaverick]

25. I'm having problems with the way this article presents infomation

it's long on the author's interpretations and short on actual quotes (with proper context).

[AllentownJake]

26. So is yours

I don't see one direct quote from Teddy Kennedy in yours either :rofl:

Pwned.

[NJmaverick]

31. I guess a laughing emoticon is what you are passing off as facts these days

[AllentownJake]

35. What there is not one quote from Ted Kennedy in your OP

You quote a Yale professor who is speculating as much as the interviewer in the response.

You got pwned.

[AllentownJake]

28. Actually this article is better than yours

Because it actually has a quote from Ted Kennedy

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

33. more laugh=fact posts, I think you sense that you are on the losing side of the debate

your desperation is quite apparent.

[Mass]

32. Probably more quotes and context than yours...

And a very recent quote by Kennedy, at a point when people were already debating whether the public option should be ditched in order to pass the bill.

[NJmaverick]

34. More quotes but the interesting thing is that they don't support the interpretations

even with the shortening of them.

[Mass]

38. Really. I linked the article, so you can read it, if you want.

But I assume it would be embarrassing to read something that disagrees with you.

[NJmaverick]

46. Here's the problem. I would have to accept a rediculus scenerio

that Kennedy doesn't regret passing up on a health plan superior to anything that we could get today. Why on earth would I believe people trying to sell me that?

[AllentownJake]

27. You just owned him

Congrats

[NJmaverick]

29. LOL! Only in your rather distorted impression of reality

but hey you also believe yourself to be a world class debater, so who am I to rain on your parade.

[AllentownJake]

37. PWNED

You just got hit with a giant bag of fail, and the worst part of it is, I didn't realize it till you made your comment and I compared the two posts.

[NJmaverick]

40. *yawn*

this sort of behavior gets old fast:boring:

[AllentownJake]

41. F-A-I-L

Oh look you used an emoticon

:crazy:

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllentownJake]

43. No I think he believed what he was selling

Of course, he's worried about the "liberals" of the 70s.

[NJmaverick]

47. Your flame tactics worked Jake, I was distracted for a momement

then I realized I would have to be some sort of fool to believe, even for a second, that Kennedy doesn't regret passing up a health care plan SUPERIOR to anything that could be passed today. I guess you learned the tactics of distraction well.

[NJmaverick]

48. another discipline of attack and distract

your deception even worked for a bit, until I realized your claims that Kennedy didn't regret passing on a great health care plan were beyond ludicris.

[Mass]

30. What is shameful is that this quote was debunked when Hatch used it in a This Week interview

just after Kennedy's death (with everybody justly protesting), but Democrats are now using it to justify this plan.

[NJmaverick]

36. Ah I know you guys prefer emoticons, but just a point of FACT, there was no debunked quote

I didn't post any Kennedy quotes that could be debunked

[Mass]

39. I never use emoticons, but happy to see you admit you do not have a quote of Kennedy saying that.

So, you know what Kennedy thought? Note I never said I thought I knew. I only posted people who disagree with you and an actual quote by Kennedy. I cannot read minds. Neither should you.

[NJmaverick]

49. Kennedy thought that in hindsight he passed up the best deal he was ever going to see

and he regretted it for the rest of his life. I sure hope we don't see history repeat itself.