"Obama leaned closely in to Lieberman, whose back was literally up against the wall."

[dave29]

That's our weak President for you. Maybe he doesn't always show it, but the man's not afraid of Lieberman, or I doubt, anyone. Sure he doesn't have the power to make them vote his way every time, but I have a feeling he knows when to use the gas and when to use the brakes. Next to physical violence, I'm not sure what some expect Obama to do to get the votes of intransigent egomaniacs like Lieberman.

From the 2008 campaign:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/obama-confronts.html

They shook hands. But Obama didn’t let go, leading Lieberman - cordially - by the hand across the room into a corner on the Democratic side, where Democratic sources tell ABC News he delivered some tough words for the junior senator from Connecticut, who had just minutes before hammered Obama's speech before the pro-Israel group AIPAC in a conference call arranged by the McCain campaign.

The two spoke intensely for approximately five minutes, with no one able to hear their conversation. Reporters watched as Obama leaned closely in to Lieberman, whose back was literally up against the wall.

Neither party is officially talking. But while Lieberman spokesman Marshall Whitman says the conversation was "a cordial and friendly discussion" and Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton says it was "private and friendly," Democratic sources tell ABC News that the conversation was a stern rebuke to Lieberman for his criticism of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee as had just happened on the conference call, as well as a discussion about how far Lieberman is willing to go in his advocacy of McCain, and the tone of the campaign.

[AllentownJake]

1. I voted for Senator Obama

President Obama is turning out to be quite the different guy.

[dave29]

2. do either of us ever sleep?

:)

[AllentownJake]

5. I've been waking up at 4am for some reason the past week

[dave29]

6. my wife has insomnia... therefore so do I

:D

[Prism]

3. delete

No reason for this post now, much appreciated.

[dave29]

4. roger that -- my bad. I've never thought of it that way.

sorry :)

[Prism]

10. No bother

Figured I'd spare you the derailing that would be sure to come.

Thank you for being reasonable and sensitive about it.

[dave29]

12. Surely.

And I learned something... appreciate it, actually.

[lapfog_1]

7. That was Senator Obama, the guy I voted for and contributed to.

President Obama seems more intent on having a signing ceremony in the White House.

I certainly don't think he went to the Senate Chamber and physically "leaned into" Joementum, even on a metaphorical level, over his traitorous act withdrawing support for expanding Medicare after Joe had campaigned on that very issue for years now.

What I heard was "Give Joe what he wants, cut a deal Harry, get this done."

[dave29]

9. do you think this tactic would have ever worked to get Lieberman's vote?

I think the answer is self evident. Not to mention the non stop noise we would have heard about it, and negative press. Imagine John McCain racing to defend his poor besieged colleague. I can almost hear him now:

"This President is a loose cannon, with a temper the likes of which I have never seen. Can we trust him to lead this country????"

In terms of metaphorical smackdowns, I think the same principle applies. Would not have helped get Lieberman's vote.

[lapfog_1]

13. Nothing was going to get Lieberman's vote

except compromising our core values.

At some point you have to draw a line. And you have to let the "other side" (which isn't republicans but blue dog dems and joementum) know where the line is (actually it's better to tell them the line is right behind you when it's really 30ft behind you). Appeasement never works either. For the simple reason that once Joe got what he wanted, Ben Nelson is now getting what he wants, and pretty soon somebody else will be along to get what they want.

What should have happened in the White House meeting with the Democratic Senate caucus is "If the bill doesn't have a marketplace method of cost containment, I will veto this legislation. You guys figure out how to make that happen. You don't like Public Option, then propose another solution. BTW, all of your butts are on the line too." And, privately to Harry Reid "you need to figure out what to do about Joe. After he campaigned for Republicans and all but repudiated the entire Democratic party, *I* personally intervened to allow him back into the caucus and you and I agreed to give him his chairmanship of Homeland Security, maybe you need to rethink that and deal with him... if it means losing the 60 votes, then so be it, apparently we don't have those 60 votes when it counts. BTW, go to Olympia Snowe and ask if SHE would like to be a chairperson of some committee and what else we might do for her."

[dave29]

18. I think it is abundantly clear to all the smart people

that their butts are on the line. Hence the horsetrading. I also believe that the door is wide open to Snowe, and has been for some time. Collins too.

[xultar]

8. I don't think anyone thinks Obama is afraid of Joementum...the problem is

that Obama allowed people to believe he was something he wasn't.

Now it isn't his fault that people believe something that isn't real. His goal was to win an election but he didn't consider what could happen afterward. That is the problem.

That is the one ting I have positive to say about Hillary. Her shit was an open book. She never pretended to be something she wasn't and didn't let people believe she was somthing she wasn't.

[dave29]

11. I hate to break it to you, but people say this about

EVERY president. They would have said it about Hillary too. Step over anyone's ideological line after you get elected and you have the target squarely on your back.

[lapfog_1]

14. True. She was for mandates and she is/was DLC all the way.

I don't think that health care reform bill would have been any better under President Hillary, but I wouldn't feel as betrayed by her, after all, she is what she is. Doesn't mean I would have liked it. But I would have expected it. I didn't expect it from Obama, and that hurts worse.

[dave29]

16. I'm sure she would have found a way to disappoint,

everyone does it -- even the best Presidents.

[xultar]

22. You said it...you wouldn't have felt as betrayed by her. That is what I'm trying

to get to. With Hillary it would have been expected.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. It's not "Joe"mentum they fear....

[ima_sinnic]

15. since they're both professional chameleons, what difference does it make?

everything they do is calculated to be kind of ambiguous, subject to interpretation and therefore cabable of being whatever people want it to be. Though both their "spokespeople" characterized the meeting as "friendly," "Democratic sources" called it a "stern rebuke." Yeah, I'm sure Lieberman understands the value of appearing "friendly" to some and being "sternly rebuked" to others. It's all one big con.

[dave29]

17. it's actually three big cons

they don't want you to know about the other two

:o

[xultar]

23. Actually no, they aren't with Hillary you knew what to expect. Obama let y'all

believe he was something he wasn't.

I kept saying that Obama and Hillary were two peas in a pod. No one wanted to believe me they kept saying how progressive he was.

[ima_sinnic]

27. I was talking about Obama and Lieberman

IMO, Hillary also has a nice "plastic smile" (sensu Black Uhuru, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3d8j8CJE9M )

[Clio the Leo]

20. One of my favorite moments from the campaign. NT

[natrat]

21. one of the biggest sellouts in American political history, incredible

[Honeycombe8]

24. To kiss him and thank him for being so helpful? nt

[DrToast]

25. Obama wanted this health care deal. Lieberman did his dirtywork.

[DrToast]

26. Obama wanted this health care deal. Lieberman did his dirtywork.

[Better Today]

28. Between then and now, Lieberman learned that there would never be any REAL

discipline for dissing the Dems or Obama. So whose to blame him for utilizing the power he has been shown he has ever since that day?

Honestly, Lieberman is only a symptom of the problem, the problem is that Dem politicians just never actually DO anything that inclines one to give a shit what they think or want.

[carpe diem]

29. that was about him getting himself elected...

...let's see him do that kind of in your face to get something for those of us who voted for him...

[PassingFair]

30. "Grabbed him by his heavy shoulders, and gave him a bruising kiss Lieberman will never forget."

Sorry, I got carried away with your narrative.