Okay, so now that we finally have a bill with 60 probable votes... For or Against?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Poll question: Okay, so now that we finally have a bill with 60 probable votes... For or Against?

I don't think Sanders and Burris have signed on but assuming that with Nelson and Lieberman on-board we have seen the last of the major crap-injections and that this is THE bill... knowing what you know about the bill at this time would you, the Democratic Senator from DU, vote FOR or AGAINST the Senate HCR bill?

This poll is binary because the question is binary. There are plenty of nuanced variations of why one would vote for or against the thing, and that's what replies are for.

[Joe Bacon]

1. Against.

It makes a bad situation worse.

[AndyA]

2. This is a tough question to answer at this point.

If the final version is mostly the Senate version, I would say to vote against the bill.

If the final version is mostly the House version, I would be more inclined to say vote for the bill.

Neither are really acceptable, in my opinion.

And with Obama's trashing of Clinton during the campaign for requiring everyone to buy insurance whether they could afford it or not in her health plan, I find that mandate to the unacceptable until true cost controls and competition are part of the deal.

[yurbud]

3. that's the best way to describe my feeling. The House bill is a piece of shit. Senate's is cancer

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Understood. I clarified the poll to refer specifically to the the Senate

[Armstead]

4. In its current form -- reluctantly against

The bad outweighs the good, and it will distort all efforts at actual reform in the future.

Plus I think we just gave the GOP the next election.

[Laelth]

5. It's worse than doing nothing.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care

system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[IndianaGreen]

6. The bill is a major transfer of the people's wealth into the pockets of the industry

I voted to kill the bill.

[beachmom]

7. For, but I am now reading worrying reports that Stupak is messing around

with the GOP Senate leadership. Are we going to hit yet another obstacle when the House has to vote on it again?

[begin_within]

8. No public option, no single payer, no Medicare-for-all, no sale.

[Dinger]

28. Same here (nt)

[CTyankee]

9. Holding my nose, I voted FOR. And for one reason and one reason only:

to get to the Conference committee where maybe some good things can be salvaged. I don't want the process to be over. I don't want the patient to die on the operating table. If there is even the SLIGHTEST bit of a chance for some good to come out of this, the fight must go on.

My neighbor just commented that he now believes this country is ungovernable. He has been on a rant for a week about this whole sorry mess. We had a good rant on the phone, two old liberals out of our minds with disgust...

[Armstead]

10. Hate to tell hyou this, but the Nelson compromise took that away

They basically gutted the ability to make any meaningful changes to the Senate Bill.

So What You See Is What You Got.

[CTyankee]

11. It ain't over til it's over, Armstead.

He's threatening to vote against cloture at the final bill if his will is not done, yes. Well, let's take our chances and see what CAN happen.

I hate this bill as much as you do but I am one of those "fight with the last breath in your body" types. If we have to change another mind instead of his then we do that.

My reasoning also comes down to this: I have a reasonable doubt that we can get another HCR bill through Congress for a long time. I know there are those here who disagree with that and they might be right. But there is just enough doubt in my mind that I would not gamble with it.

What we MUST do is not fail to go back again and again the amend the crap out of this bill if it becomes law. Before doing that we simply MUST elect more progressives to the Senate. It is the work of your lifetime and my lifetime and every person calling themself a progressive activist. It is the only thing we can do at this point.

I agree with all of your arguments against this bill. They are my arguments, too. It all comes down to, as we all know, US.

What are we going to do about it?

[Armstead]

12. Right now, quite honestly, I feel like this is a last straw....But I hope you are right

I've been through variations of this movie too many times over the last 30 years.

This one seems the worst because all of the pieces were in place to actually do something good. Maybe not perfect but good.

And they let us down. Even the ones who fought hardest for it were undermined and forced to go along in humiliation, while bad guys like Nelson get the Kings Treatment.

A pox on all their houses.

Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow.

[CTyankee]

19. I think a lot of people feel this way, not just us progressives.

Just nonpolitical types who don't obsess about issues the way we do. I'll bet that they were momentarily lifted when they heard about the Medicare buy in. Maybe the thudding defeat of that will radicalize some more people into action. Just when they thought they might have something, it gets whisked away...

Well, at least they can't blame us liberals. We tried. We warned them about the utter ruthlessness of the insurance companies. I don't see how these so called "ordinary" people can feel good about this mess.

I just heard Bernie Sanders on Countdown 2 nights ago: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x414513

I trust Sanders and he is sounding like he'll vote for the bill. I imagine he is feeling pretty bad right now because he really, really tried for us...

Take care, Armstead. Does it help to know that you have many, many others feeling the same way you do?

[levander]

18. Campaign finance reform

I'm with your buddy on the ungovernable situation.

What were his takes on campaign finance reform? Any hopes that would get some control back?

[CTyankee]

20. We didn't talk about that but my guess is that he would want the strongest reform possible.

There are lots of us New Haven progressives having a good rant, or a good cry, right about now...

[polichick]

13. Why does everyone assume Sanders and Burris will sign on? I hope they prove...

...that it's a big ass mistake to take the base for granted and VOTE NO!

[Armstead]

21. Bernie got bought off with Community Health Centers

He still doesn't like this bill but they sweetened the deal for him with provisions for Community health Centers.

I still love Bernie, but he got broken and took what he could get.

[polichick]

23. Oh, I missed that. Thanks for filling me in. nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

31. .

[donco6]

14. It never did matter what you or I want.

It was bound to end up this way from the minute the discussion started. Huge handout to corporate insurance companies; guaranteed income for them, guaranteed payment from you. And because they're private, you have NO RECOURSE to complain about anything.

[rocktivity]

15. This bill doesn't address the very reason why we have a health care crisis in the first place

An unregulated, profit-mad health care industry. Life and death will continue to be just another commodity.

:mad:
rocktivity

[jefferson_dem]

16. FOR. Obviously.

It will be interesting to see exactly how out of touch DU is.

[Mass]

17. Until a few minutes ago, I was torn. The last half hour of disinformation made me go for the bill.

Some of the statements from those who do not want to vote for the bill are so uninformed that either they take us for idiots or they have no clue about what they are talking about.

This said, I am still deeply unhappy with it, and my heart is heavy.

[Undercurrent]

22. For.

.

[PBS Poll-435]

24. For. Duh

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. If it comes out of conference better than it is now, For.

[LovinLife]

26. As long as a mandate is in w/ no public option, I hope it gets killed. NT

[polichick]

27. Me too. nt

[dave29]

29. For.

.

[mcablue]

30. Against, lest we get used to settle for mediocre pseudo-reform in all aspects of our life

We need real reform.