Beware of manipulation from GOP stealth propaganda

[Nancy Waterman]

The GOP has always claimed the Dems are wimps. They give us the gun-toting (Perry and Palin) and the "smoke em out" (Bush) tough-guy types in response. The more we weaken the Left with this infighting that Obama has caved, the better the GOP will do.
Take a look at the recent totally-contrived controversy.

Obama thought he had cleared the time of the speech with Boner. It was to be just as the Congress opened as promised to those who wanted a job speech ASAP.

Boner didn't quietly say no, as was appropriate and respectful. He loudly proclaimed it for the world to see
and the media to scream about. (Purposeful manipulation)

That left Obama two choices: insist on giving the speech Wednesday, getting the Right to screech about being victimized by the tyrant Obama who is playing politics with the country, and also risking a big turmoil with Republicans who were refusing to come to or even allow the speech, thereby upstaging the more important content of the speech.

OR, switch to Thursday, giving it before a football game (not optimal) and getting once again called a caver by his base.

This was a win/win for Republicans who we know are brilliant at hard-ball political strategy even though they are clueless about governing. They will do everything they can to get Democrats to see Obama as the caver. This is the narrative the GOP wants you to have.

A truer narrative is that Obama is often caught between a rock and hard place, making decisions that are based on which policy is the least bad. The recent smog decision is one of them. He is caught between a very fragile economy, tottering on recession again, and the reality of global warming and the health issues of pollution. He decided to push the environmental regulation off a year to postpone the cost for business. He didn't want to hear from businesses that they had to pay for the cost of the new regulations and therefore couldn't afford to hire new workers.

Last year he was caught between keeping the Bush tax cuts and ending the unemployment benefits, as well as pissing off the Russians by not ratifying the new treaty. He had to decide which would have been worse. He is dealing with a mafioso-like GOP which maximizes its power by using threats and extortion to get what it wants. We need to stop with this all-or-nothing, my- way-or-the-highway, black and white thinking. The GOP thinks like this and it is unhealthy for the country.

Obama is struggling with nuanced shades of gray in everything. It would be good for the country if we managed not to be manipulated by the stealth GOP propaganda that gets us to think we are being betrayed and somehow victimized by Obama, that he is not doing the best he can under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. He is tied by the constitution and the law that the GOP has managed to manipulate beyond previous imaginings. He is not superman, and we need to stop expecting that he should be and getting furious when he isn't. The GOP's primary goal is to take him down and replace him with another tough-guy cowboy moron that can be manipulated by the global corporations. We need to stop falling for their narrative and stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Turbineguy]

1. Be that as it may

He needs to hole GOP below the waterline on Thursday and I hope he does. There are times when you have to do more than just be the smartest guy in the room.

[Nancy Waterman]

2. Again he walks a narrow line

Stand up to them with strong policies but leave room for them to join him by not pissing them off too much.
Without them, the choice of policies are quite clear: raising taxes on the rich, closing corporate loopholes and ending unnecessary subsidies, and channeling that money into the economy through an infrastructure bank and help to the states, education, etc. All we need is to recirculate money that is held up through wrong headed policies. But the GOP is either willfully blind or simply deranged and doesn't see this a the solution at all. I never really know if they are purposefully sabotaging the economy (and therefore Obama) or just really don't see things the way we do. Either way, they make governing almost impossible.

[Ineeda]

3. I think the warning might be too late here. n/t

[Nancy Waterman]

4. We need to wake up to being maniipualted by the Right

It is never too late until the election is over. Then it will be.

[SkyDaddy7]

23. Yes, I think it is far too late!! LOL! nt.

[jimlup]

5. I agree and have discovered it in myself only to recognize it later.

Also notice that the GOP conservative bloggers are often quite fast at putting stuff out there before the dems have a chance to counter. It is easy to be sucked into. The latest bullshit from Boehner got me. I sucked into it and got mad at Obama before I realized how god damn immmature Boehner had been.

Anyway :kick: and rec! I'm very disappointed to see this get unrec's as it hits the greatest page. What's wrong with folks? We need to get together and work the problem. Time to fight the other side - not among ourselves!!!!

We may not be totally happy with Obama but we do have to "dance with who brung us" - time is short and we have to pull 2012 off - we just have to get Obama re-elected with a democratic congress. That is the minimum of our objectives.

[Cosmocat]

48. YEP!

I have been disappointed at times, but he is our guy, and he is not NEAR as bad as some people here make him out to be.

It just PAINS me to see a never ending array of posts on this board using Republican framing of him, and they don't even get it.

Yeah, the Rs are dead wrong on everything, except the negative frames of the democratic president.

WHISKEY
TANGO
FOXTROT

[NorthCarolina]

6. How can we differentiate it from the Turd-Way Dem stealth propaganda

so rampant here on DU?

[Sheepshank]

50. I ask that myself quite frequently

and asked the question on it's own OP.....you can only imagine what happened when the turdway stealthers got a hold of that question.

[treestar]

7. Exactly. The right wing memes are all over

Talk to right wingers and they use this leadership coward cave tough language constantly. They are bullies and that is what they think should run the world. The strongest wins and leads everyone else. They love the military, and the automatic obedience required. It's their way of seeing things and it's them when you get that language.

[pnorman]

8. "He decided to push the environmental regulation off a year to postpone the cost for business"

He's trading territory for time, a time-honored strategy. And about the ONLY one feasible when you don't hold good cards.

2012 WILL be Armageddon year, and if it's lost to Corporate America, it WILL take decades to recover (if only partially). Obama AND enough true Democrats in Congress are our only hope. I sincerely believe Obama is well aware of that, and is doing whatever may be needed to remain viable in 2012. Trust him just that far. There is NO "Plan B" worth a damn!

[DirkGently]

9. "Stealth GOP propaganda" is easy to spot. It attacks the liberal base and the "professional left."

[mopinko]

12. i respectfully disagree.

good propaganda is never noticed, and they are cranking out the best. they are pushing our deepest, most unconscious buttons.

[DirkGently]

14. Propagandists aren't geniuses. They post press releases and one-note attacks. But it doesn't

matter, really, guessing people's motivations. The argument (if any) either holds water, or it doesn't. Shouting slogans and calling names isn't argument, of course. Neither are mass call-out posts that denigrate an entire category of opinion. Or accusations that others are arguing in bad faith. That's mostly projection, in my opinion. Propagandists believe in the power of propaganda, and assume everyone else is doing it, like the thief I mentioned somewhere else here today with 10 locks on the door.

I guess the people who do it think they're accomplishing something, but it doesn't stick or resonate with anyone who's actually engaged, which I'd say most members of DU are. People here, who aren't posting on anyone's payroll, aren't swayed by silly, repetitive slogans and facile snippets of one-size-fits-all pseudo logic, which is all that can really be produced by anyone with a genuine professional agenda. It's drum-pounding. Noise. It's kind of patronizing and presumptuous to suggest to others that their own opinions have been manipulated dishonestly.

It's the kind of thing someone trying to dishonestly manipulate opinion would say.

[mopinko]

17. those press releases are not the propaganda

the issue framing in the media is the most overt part of it.
there is a great deal of careful research on psy ops, and they have been using it masterfully for many years, imho. i think you are thinking more of an advertising model, which is not what we are talking about.

it isn't patronizing or presumptuous to point out the devious tactics of the enemy to those on your own side. it is smart.

[DirkGently]

19. It is patronizing & presumptuous AND propaganda to dismiss opinion as coming from the enemy.

If an opinion or argument is actually wrong, argue it. Ascribing dark motives to the people who hold the opinion or argument is simply a dishonest way of attempting to undermine it.

It would be pretty easy, for example -- and would make a lot more sense, by the way -- to suggest that people attacking liberal pundits, and defending this administration's most center-right policies are the "secret agents" engaging in "stealth propaganda."

But again, that would be beside the point. A point of view either makes sense to a person, or it does not. To suggest to someone that they have been secretly hypnotized by enemy propaganda is a liar's game.

[JoePhilly]

To what end?

Let's assume you are correct.

The "liberal base" is under attack by people PRETENDING to be Obama supporters? People who ask YOU to support him?

How does that work exactly?

Come 2012, there will be two candidates. Obama, and a GOP nut. How does a fake Obama supporter "attacking" you help the GOP elect the GOP nut? Are you going to not vote for Obama because you think his supporters were mean to you? Is that really how you vote? Is that how real progressives vote?

What the GOP learned in 2000 was that there are a part of the left who are perpetually disgruntled. And those folks, rather than focus on Gore versus Bush, focused on Gore verses Nadar.

This time around, the GOP is pushing to get the perpetually disgruntled left to send the SAME MESSAGE that the right wing spews ... "OBAMA BAD!!!" And the media helps by giving those two groups the focus.

The right wing version of "OBAMA BAD" and the disgruntled left wing version of "OBAMA BAD" are total opposites. But that is irrelevant, because the GOP's best way to win in 2012, is to increase right leaning turn out, and try to depress left leaning turnout.

And the competing "OBAMA BAD" messages help achieve that goal. Those who lean right will accept the right wing framing, those who lean left will accept the left wing framing.

Obama beat McCain by about 6%. If the GOP can get a 3% increase in right leaning turn out, and get a 3% decrease in left leaning turn out, then they have a chance to elect a GOP whack job as President.

Now ... under your version, what does the fake Obama supporter hope to achieve in 2012?

[Ineeda]

27. Great post. +100 n/t

[JoePhilly]

40. Thanks much ...

As an Obama supporter, I don't want to "demand", that those farther to the left support Obama.

And I don;t want to "threaten" them to vote for Obama.

I'm actually "begging" them.

And I don't expect them to STFU. I do not expect them to agree with everything Obama does.

I do have one honest request. That they be OBJECTIVE when they compare Obama to the ACTUAL alternatives.

That's all.

I'm sure some will scream "I can't vote for the least of two evils" ... fine ... stay home. Write in your sister who grows tomatoes in her yard.

But don't claim you are trying to advance a Democratic or Progressive agenda when such actions work against BOTH of those. Letting more Tea Party folks into government will strenghen the blue dogs, not weaken them. And if we get Rick Perry as President, the GOP will pass some nasty new nasty crap that will take decades to kill.

[DirkGently]

39. First, did you miss the part where the questioning people's motives game is a dead-end?

Arguments stand or fail on their own, regardless of who you want to speculate is making them. People obsessed with accusing others of either being enemy plants or being unduly influenced by enemy plants do so because they have no substantive argument to make. It's ad hominem attack, like "Glen Greenwald / automatic unrec." Empty. Amoral. Meaningless.

If you insist on going there, though, tearing down liberals is more harmful to Democrats than tearing down Obama. Democrats stand or fall on liberal principles, not on a candidate. There are other liberals; other Democrats. But if liberalism itself is wrong, why would people pick a candidate from a traditionally liberal party, regardless of how watered down that liberalism becomes?

The only people who think liberals in general are the enemy are rightwingers.

The only other (bent, irrational) way to conceptualize things is to define Democrats not as the more liberal American party, but simply as another saleable brand with no connection to any set of principles; no real difference from anyone else besides being "ours," whatever that's supposed to mean. If bashing liberalism works, you do it. If cutting taxes for the rich works, you do it. If the oil companies need a pipeline or the CIA needs a free pass for torture, you do that too. You look at what appears to work in the marketplace; what worked last year; what Those In The Know approve of, and adopt it.

But doing that is the MOST demoralizing thing I can think of for any group. The habit of this administration, and an unfortunate minority of its adherents, to aim hatred and derision at the people most opposed to Republican policies is politically suicidal. They're your whole argument. If they're wrong, Republicans are right. So why not just elect Republicans?

Liberalism, liberal principles, and liberals thinkers are the beating heart of the Democratic Party; once you cut that out, you've killed it. Nothing would please the right wing more than to marginalize and deride those voices. It would make the Democratic Party irrelevant and obsolete. No one needs another liberal hating party in America. Who gains from that, do you think?




edited for various changes to punctuation, content, and syntax. so there.

[JoePhilly]

41. You are making the same error you complain against.

You are concerned about liberalism, as if it "stands alone", and then use attacks on "liberals" as the proof.

Again ... I asked a simple question ...

If there is an effort to attack liberals (or "liberalism") ... by people who PRETEND to be Obama supporters, what is our goal?

I could at this point out that folks like you seem to see my support for Obama as an attack on you. Much like Fundamentalist Christians see my unwillingness to join them as an attack on Christianity.

I support Obama because, on the whole, I prefer his positions. And if there was some other viable candidate who's positions I preferred more, I'd support them. But that consideration does not exist in a vacuum.

The GOP alternatives are actually known. I can see them. I know their positions too.

And I consider all of these.

And so ... if I am asked to vote for Obama, or a GOP nut, or a primary challanger who I know does not exist ... Obama wins hands down.

Now ... if I want more progressive candidates in the future, then I need to keep voting for the most progressive candidate who can WIN any particular election. This is important.

I currently live in NC. And in 2008, we got rid of Liddy Dole, and elected Kay Hagan. Now, if I had to not vote for Kay, because she isn't Dennis Kucinich, we'd still have LIDDY.

My goal is a long term goal. More Dems, and with each pass, add more progressives.

And so my SUPPORT for Obama works with that strategy. If we want a more progressive President ... then PLEASE, YOU TELL ME ... who is our candidate in 2016!!!!! Let Obama hold the ground, add more progressive Dems to the Congress, and then BUILD a more progressive Presidential candidate in each election where we are not the incumbent.

All of this infighting weakens us. And its part of why we got Bush and not Gore in 2000. If we got Gore in 2000, the potential for an even more progressive President in 2008 would have been HIGHER.

[DirkGently]

42. You are either deliberately or dishonestly missing the point. If ANYONE is arguing in bad faith,

it would be those attacking critics on the left. Remember, the OP here is "Beware Stealth GOP Manipulation." As in, Obama supporters accusing those they disagree with of either being, or being victimized by, the other side. Of being the enemy in disguise. That's indefensible, period.

My only point is that if you wanted to obsess on that ridiculous idea, it works far better the other way around.

Tearing down the left is a great victory for the Republicans, because that's what they're out to destroy. Obama is one guy. He's not the party, he's not Democrats, he's not the POINT. People criticizing him from the left are building on the only principles upon which a party in opposition to the Republicans can succeed.

I can't make it any simpler than that for you.

But for the fourth or fifth time, arguing someone's theoretical motives is for the weak and dishonest.

What we CAN say for sure, though, is if you WANTED to foment disaster amongst Democrats, accusing Obama of acceding too readily to Republicans is not a tactic any rightwinger would use. They don't know how, and such arguments don't make sense to them. Hippie punching and making up new nasty names for the Hamshers and Greenwalds of the world, they understand. They're good at that. They love to hear it; they love to say it.

How a Democrat gets so twisted up that they can do the same is beyond any logic I can see.

[kiranon]

10. +1. Thanks.

[mopinko]

11. the human animal is finely tuned to turn out "bad" leaders.

our relatives, chimps, do it with gestures and body language. these things slip right past our conscience minds.
weakness in the face of the enemy is a primal fear. it it the make or break for a top chimp.

imho, we have been and are being played like a whole symphonic string section.

[Enrique]

13. no, the GOP propaganda is that Obama is a socialist

I listen to RW radio all the time, they don't talk about him caving, they talk about an imaginary Obama that instituted socialized medicine, raised taxes, expanded welfare and withdrew all our military forces from everywhere in the world.

When he does cave on a substantive issue, they usually studiously ignore it because it conflicts with their narrative.

[DirkGently]

15. Correct. The only propaganda here is trying to characterize liberal critics as agents of the right.

It's laughable. Pathetic. Dishonest. No one on the right is secretly criticizing Obama from the left. On the contrary, one can easily imagine RW propagandists joining in bashing the "professional left," etc.

But again, questioning everyone's motives is a pointless game. It's just a variation on ad hominem attack, when you've nothing substantive to argue. Don't believe what someone says, because someone else accuses them of being a secret agent. THAT'S a propaganda technique. And a poor one.

[carolinayellowdog]

29. pathetic and dishonest, but hard to find laughable

very well stated. It's a propagandistic meme, planting distrust among DUers.

[Supersedeas]

36. yeah, because ad hominem political attacks are so funny

[Nancy Waterman]

20. "Socialist" is the propaganda that works on the Right

But pushing the "caving" or "weak" meme serves very well on the Left. We forget this is how the GOP has seen the Left for decades, while they are always the "patriotic" chest thumpers and war mongers. Look what the Swift Boaters did to Kerry. This "weakness" meme weakens Dem support for their own. And it is black and white thinking and never allows for the nuances in reality.

[Empowerer]

16. Brilliantly said . . . k&r

[NBachers]

18. I agree with you 100% Nancy Waterman. It's time to back out of the political murder/suicide cult

and do everything in our power to defeat Republicans, get Obama re-elected, and put progressive Democrats in office in 2012.

[Sheepshank]

51. This IS the bottom line.

Get as many Democrats into office as possible...everything else fails if that fails.

[MaeScott]

21. Amen, Nancy. Amen. nt

[Nancy Waterman]

22. I am not saying everyone who complains about Obama is a plant

But I do think there are some who sneak on here and push this narrative, and we are susceptible to believing it and then we shoot ourselves in the foot. There is an old saying that is very useful: "The Devil works with a grain of truth." It is easy to spin a very negative narrative around one little nugget of fact. That little nugget allows the tentacles to take hold and the whole dark and dishonest narrative to begin its destruction. The GOP uses this with all their successful attacks.

So while it is true Obama put off the smog restrictions for a year, or allowed the Bush tax cuts another two years, that doesn't mean: he betrayed us, he didn't make a hard choice of the lesser of two evils, or that he is spineless or a corporate shill, etc. It means that he is navigating through some very difficult waters and had to make choices that we may not agree with. Beware of the all-or-nothing, emotionally-laden thinking that was the hallmark of the Bush administration. It is always problematic and easy for the other side to manipulate.

[mopinko]

25. +1

doesn't any body here remember kkkarl rove?

[Union Scribe]

26. Yeah, you and a half dozen other threads.

Curious how this talking point has blossomed here, almost seems as organized as the "plants" are supposed to be.

[NBachers]

28. Maybe these "plants" are trying to turn us back to unity so we elect Dems & kick repuke ass in 2012

There's no priority greater than that.

[mopinko]

32. seeing the propaganda in action causes those that see it

to try to talk their allies out of being affected for it. :shrug: that is the value of the tribe.

[Union Scribe]

43. Lol. No, the message is, "Beware those criticizing the White House"

"For they may be (fill in the blank, infiltrators, trolls, operatives, propagandists, etc.)"

And it's a message catching fire all over this site in an attempt to poison the well.

[mopinko]

46. i don't think this is the majority of members doing this

and we urge all members to consider posts here to be in good faith.
i think the point is about the subtle messages coming out of the media, and some places in the blogosphere, that are not legit. things like the polls floating around about the division in the core constituencies. i think there is anger to be built on by tptb, then you run a couple push polls to bring it out, then you juice the results, then you start it all spinning, and pretty soon it has momentum, and pretty soon it is picked up by a lot of folks like our members.

it isn't about the resonance of the note, it is about who is striking the bell.

we are trying not to be the good germans. big part of what language was invented for.

[Sheepshank]

52. no that's not the message

the message is to rationalize and think it through. Look for the absolutes someone is attempting to point out, where the absolutes don't rally exists, and see for yourself if there really is reasonable thinking or manipulation going on.

[GoCubsGo]

30. Well said, Nancy.

I appreciate this and the rest of your very reasonable posts. The President is doing the best anyone can do with what he has. I can't see a Bernie Sanders or a Dennis Kucinich, or a Matt Damon (WTF?) doing any better, considering the state of our country, and considering the make-up of Congress, both now and back in 2009-2010.

[santamargarita]

37. Well said, thanks...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Big difference between the apparatchik and the proles.

:think:

[hulka38]

31. Obama earned that moniker way before this latest mole hill.

The shoe keeps fitting. He doesn't need to play along so nicely with the narrative.

[mopinko]

33. it's the answer to the mystery of the democratic circular firing

squad. the republicans don't do it because these forces are not working so hard to divide them. we have hard wired buttons. they know where they are. they use the same tactics on their own side, just hit different buttons for different results. like abortion. and things like gay marriage are the best because they hit a different button for each side, both to their advantage.

[Nancy Waterman]

34. Exactly!

They know which buttons to press to get a rise out of us and which buttons work on their own base.

[chill_wind]

35. Please.

Obama has much bigger problems with his eroding base since 2008 than whatever day he decides to give his next speech on or anything based on whatever Gopher troll/operative wanders through here or elsewhere from one day to the next. The anger with him and the direction of his leadership on too many key core Democratic issues is genuine and he's readily earned it.

[Vattel]

38. I get tired of these sorts of remarks:

"He is not superman, and we need to stop expecting that he should be and getting furious when he isn't." Who thinks he is superman? Many of his critics just think he has made a variety of bad decisions.

We need to stop with this all-or-nothing, my- way-or-the-highway, black and white thinking." Who engages in this sort of thinking? I haven't seen anyone claiming that Obama should never compromise, or that he doesn't have to sometimes choose the lesser of two evils.

You are attacking strawmen, and to what end?

[Me.]

44. While I Think You Make Fine And Valid Points

The Obama admin has unnecessarily shot itself in the foot regarding it's base and didn't need Con help to do it. This EPA matter for example. There was a pending lawsuit brought by conservationists. The WH told them, "we've got this, you don't need to file suit, drop it and we'll rake care of it" so they were taken at their word and this is the result. The suit will now be re-filed. The admin didn't need to meet with Pharma and make a deal that no one knew about until it was done. And of course there was the sit down and STFU situations and where WH spoke persons complained about the professional left. In addition I wish the President would stop talking as if the dems and Cons are equally responsible for the mess this country is in. They are not and while I understand it may be an attempt at diplomacy it has not helped him and raised suspicions about who he actually stands with. As sis his putting SS on the table before anyone asked him to.

[BrightSideOfLife]

45. It's like you centrist supporters of the President have blinders on or something

Progressives have been taken for granted since day by this administration. I may not vote for a republican, but I'm sure not voting for a fake democrat. Call me a "troll" if you will, but I'm not the one who sits in the White House and compares himself to Reagan.

[Sheepshank]

53. you're not voting for a fake Democrat?

That Democrat is the only one from the Democratic party running as President. So your vote is going to an R? Do you honestly believe an R has a Democratic agenda they will press that agenda? Your vote possibly going to a third party? Why are you here on DU then? Your stand makes little sense to me.

[mopinko]

47. i have long thought that we should have a

rw meme of the day here. somebody with a strong stomach watch joey the scab and tell us what the carefully wrapped, reasonable sounding pile of flaming poo being sold that day is.
the rnc talking points of the say would be good, too. so often that little kernel of truth in those is rewrapped for us. thom hartmann posts those, iirc.

[Stinky The Clown]

49. Let's talk . . . . .

You can spin the speech response all you wish. You may even be right. But none f that matters. The Obama camp lost control f events and came off as whiney. They lost that round. Sorry, but that's how it played out, your "facts" notwithstanding.

The economy would have been less fragile had he gone big on government spending instead of giving bailouts that didn't add a single job to the economy. So now he sees cutting back some regulations as prudent. Again, who cares? He cut back environmental regs with a VERY republican-sounding reason. He looks bad as a result.

Nuanced shades of gray are fine for college debating teams. Simple, clear, positions and statements matter in politics. Pain, Perry and bush are morons. But they get high marks for clarity and image. You and I are prop ably turned off by that image, but it IS clear. And that easily appeals. Obama sees incapable of doing that, particularly as his actions are often counter to his words and when he stays true, he gets kicked badly by the right.

[Mr Deltoid]

54. "stealth GOP propaganda that gets us to think we are being betrayed"

Right, it has nothing to do with Obama making right wing dreams come true while attacking Democrats, it is just a 'GOP narrative.'

Gotcha.

[GeorgeGist]

55. Beware the manipulators ...

who blame the Left for Obama's weakness.

[Bobbie Jo]

56. Kick

:kick:

[msanthrope]

57. Ratfucking, 101. Does no one remember Segretti? nt

[FrenchieCat]

58. Yep.....ratfucking 101

It is big business.

The Right knows damn well Obama won the election largely due to the Internet,
and so as they do all things, they are trying to turn this into one of his
weaknesses. It's so obvious, till it ain't even funny.

My favorite are the sleeping pods (RWers who registered years ago,
but show up only during election season....
and have way less post than anyone should based on their registration date).

We're supposed to buy into this shit.....
But I guess some do!

[msanthrope]

59. Wait--you mean posters who registered in 2003-04 or 2007-08 and mysteriously

have low post counts?

But they sound so reasonable....