"This is an essential liberal disconnect: The narrators are far angrier than the audience."

[Clio the Leo]

To understand Obama, do the math

Obama’s approval among Democrats has hovered around a whopping 80 percent over the past year. During this same period, the base support for Presidents Bill Clinton and Lyndon B. Johnson was in the 70s, while Harry Truman struggled in the 60s. President Jimmy Carter was mired in the 50s, rebuffed by half his party.

The only Democrat who comes near Obama’s popularity with the base was John F. Kennedy in the early 1960s — and even he lagged a few points behind.

If the White House has any concerns about losing Democratic voters, it is not from the party’s progressive wing. Obama’s support there is holding strong — in the high 70s. His approval among moderate Democrats, however, is in the low 70s, while among conservative Democrats it just hit a low of 58 percent.

<snip>

“Many leading liberal voices,” Silver observed, “were unhappy with the debt ceiling deal that Mr. Obama struck with Republicans.” But that disappointment, Silver noted, “isn’t showing up in a big way among the liberal rank and file.”

This is an essential liberal disconnect: The narrators are far angrier than the audience.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/62725.html

[LonePirate]

1. Judging by DU, the narrators are not nearly as angry as the audience. Those polls are meaningless.

[scheming daemons]

13. DU is the "narrators", not the rank and file

[CakeGrrl]

14. DU is not representative of the Dem/Liberal nationwide audience.

[stubtoe]

23. Tend to agree.

[mikekohr]

40. Absolutely agree nt

[Inuca]

15. You conclude that the polls are meaningless

based on comments on DU? Do you know anything about statistics?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

25. that's precisely what the polls suggest.

[Inuca]

26. No idea what you mean, sorry n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. that all polls are meaningless.

a wry effort at humor.

[Inuca]

30. I disagree, not all polls are meaningless

they have varied degrees of "meaningfulness", but no, schientifically and honestly done polls are not meaningless.

[chervilant]

34. hmm...

I've never seen a schientific poll...

[Inuca]

35. If you were making of the typo

I agree, what can I say, my typing IS awful, and I don't always have the time or patience to proofread. If you were referring to what I am sure you understood my meaning to be, then I disagree.

[chervilant]

39. Actually,

I was teasing you about the typo. Nothing more.

[boxman15]

20. I live in a relatively liberal city, have a mostly liberal family, and

am very active with the Democratic Party. No one is nearly as angry as a lot of these liberal pundits and furious posters online are. Sure, some are disappointed with Obama in certain respects, but the vast majority approve of the job he's been doing. And those who don't tend to be more conservative Democrats I know.

[Jennicut]

33. DU is a small sliver of liberal activists.

There are a lot of liberals not on DU. Surely you realize that.

[karynnj]

38. There is a lot of self selection of the people who come to DU

Polls include many who do not react to every new piece of news - as they likely see far fewer of them.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enrique]

2. i agree with this column

and i think it's bad news. imo Obama has gotten a lot of liberal voters to believe in bad policies that aren't progressive. Using the power of the presidency to take us in the wrong direction.

[Inuca]

16. You mean he has turned

poor, little, misguided "us" into conservatives? :rofl:

[Enrique]

18. no

I mean I'm hearing more people make conservative arguments on DU, for example, because Obama is the one making those arguments. And I've seen polls showing people believing conservative rhetoric recently, on the deficit, spending and jobs.

Nothing really to laugh at. Of course people change their minds, and of course powerful figures like Obama can influence it.

[Inuca]

21. The :rofl: was uncalled for and I apologize

It is still not much of an argument though. IMHO.

[Enrique]

24. thanks for apologizing for the rofl

that smiley is too often misused. ;-)

[OHdem10]

3. I question this poll. It is to the Republican Advantage to have

Democrats appearing to be happy with Obama's decision.

Nothing has to be done for Democrats. They can push
their RW Agenda.

[unblock]

4. "approval" is a terrible metric. drawing just about any conclusion is highly dubious

"approval" is a useful metrics in terms of the horse-race aspect of politics. in terms of ikelihood of winning a nomination or an election, "approval" is a good indicator.

but in terms of figuring out what voters want, whether or not they're angry, and so on, it's rather poor because a lot depends on other factors. in this case, the alternative is highly relevant. liberals "approve" of obama because he's better than any of the republican not jobs. but liberals would be happier with a strong liberal in the white house. unfortunately, that isn't one of the alternatives available, it seems.

[ck4829]

5. Conservatives use three word slogans, liberals use long and winding reports

Liberals may be right and conservatives may be wrong, but guess which approach is going to resonate with the public more?

[CrispyQ]

6. The dems are stupid. They should have hired Lakoff or someone like him ages ago.

They just sit back & let the repubs frame every debate. And don't tell me the media wouldn't cover it. If all of dem leadership supported & backed congress people like Grayson & Weiner when they speak out, the media would cover it. They'd have to.

I had this bumper sticker back when Bush was prez:

Hey George, Tax Cuts Don't Matter if You Don't Have a Job

It's quick, catchy & true. Why don't the dems use something like that? Makes you wonder, huh?

[tomg]

41. I think that the fact that they haven't

gotten people like Lakoff working for them and that Grayson is sometimes marginalized and Weiner ( as stupid as he was/is regarding his use of technology) was never supported by the party during or after the whatever it was - scandal? gimme a break - really says a lot about who is running the party and for what ends. Lakoff is more than a progressive. He's a lefty. I have been reading his work for over 25 years. Reading his work, Metaphors We Live By, in 1980-81 when it came out transformed me as a teacher. Look at what Dean - another real progressive - accomplished as head of the DNC and then he is treated like the crazy uncle and more or less dismissed by the current administration.

It is not stupidity by the Dems. It is deliberate by the DLC.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

7. Why are moderate and conservative Democrats less approving of President Obama

when most everybody here and on other progressive sites/blogs accuse of him of being "too moderate", "too conservative" or even a DINO? :shrug:

[zalinda]

9. This time, I think race DOES have something to do with it.

No liberal wants to disapprove of a black President, it would put into question their liberalness. There are many liberals that will go on and on about how race doesn't matter, but we all know that it still does to a certain extent. I think it was getting to be less of a problem, but it coming back because of the job scarcity. Fighting to get a job, will pit one race against another, that's just human nature. It is bad out here in poor land.

zalinda

[treestar]

8. Bet it really bugs the narrators that they are not in control

of the audience.

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. Thank You. Those who purport to represent me in the media (narrators), don't have a clue...

I'm willing to make this prediction. If Pres Obama doesn't win reelection, the professional left will find themselves utterly and completely irrelevant, and likely bankrupt after 2012. You'll be able to see tumbleweeds blowing by at sites like Dkos, DU and progressive radio. They'll get the Nader treatment after that, as they will have been seen as complicit by many loyal Dems. Bank on it!

[Inuca]

17. I agree and

I pary to everybody and evrything that it will NOT happen. I don't think I am a "cheerleader", there are decisions that make me cringe, etc., but the vitriol that I see directed at the administration here and on Kos (the only two sites I frequent regularly) make me sick. And enormously disappointed, I really thought (naive me) that "we" are better than that.

And all other considerations aside, the time is drawing very near, when thos who are not with me, are against me. I hate to put things in such a way, that's not how I usually think, that's not who I am. But if, as you say, Obama, whatever degree of (im)perfection one attributes to him, does not win, and doea not win because not enough Ds go out to vote for him, and we end up with president Perry or Romney (if we are lucky!), that's UNFORGIVABLE.

[Fuddnik]

11. This is a reality disconnect.

[emulatorloo]

12. Interesting op-ed.

[seaglass]

19. Those polled are self-labeling. Therefore the poll is meaningless.

We all know how well people on DU label themselves, why would the general public/Dems be any better?

[Inuca]

22. Of course it self-labeling, so what?

Who else would would label a person's political leanings if not the person her/himself? Do you think that there are many conservatives that "self-label" as liberals with the perverse purpose of skewing polling data in Obama's favor and thus giving us a sense or false security? Or something...

[ClassWarrior]

27. So what's the standard, if everyone defines his or her own label?

ANYONE could skew the poll, left or right, consciously or unconsciously. It's totally subjective.

Not to mention the fact that the word "liberal" has a nasty connotation among the general public.

NGU.

[Inuca]

28. Of course it's subjective to a degree

It reflects how people think of themselves. But as I already mentioned, I would never in my life answer that I consider myself a conservative, and I know that I am liberal to the very core of my being. And I think it is a safe assumption that most people self-categorize themselves correctly, and moreover would answer such polling questions truthfully. Of course, they will be exceptions, and one of the purposes of good tatistical tools is to identify meaningful samples and to analize the results in such a way that, to the extent possible, they aliminate/reduce the effet of "noise", inaccurate data.

[ClassWarrior]

31. Wrong. Most people hold liberal values but would NEVER identify as "liberal" because the...

...the Radical RW has managed to turn it into a dirty word.

People answer polling questions "truthfully?" Again, what's "truthfully," if my perception of conservative and liberal is one thing and yours is another?

It has the potential to be totally subjective and skewed. Thus it is a bad poll.

NGU.

[JuniperLea]

32. It must be very frustrating to spew lies incessantly...

But not be able to skew the actual thinking of a large... VERY large, segment of the voting population.

This is nothing new... we heard the lies about Bush, from Bush, and his mouthpiece "The Librul Media" for 8 long exasperating years... and still somehow people don't get what the echo chamber is all about.

Stunning, really.

[Number23]

37. You're right. It must be frustrating as hell

There are a few folks who have probably made a mint trying to convince Democrats/liberals that Obama is the root of all evil and they have failed miserably.

Now they are trying to stir up the lie that "blacks are abandoning Obama." But I notice they aren't trying all that hard probably because they've been so unsuccessful at convincing white Dems/liberals to hate this pres. They'll have even less success trying to convince people of color to.

I'd pity them if they weren't already so pathetic.

[Number23]

36. This point needs to be driven home and I truly don't understand why it is ignored here

LIBERALS SUPPORT OBAMA. DEMOCRATS SUPPORT OBAMA.

Obama's sagging poll numbers are the results of INDEPENDENTS and REPUBLICANS. They are dragging down his overall approval rating because they view this president as TOO LIBERAL.

So when a random approval/disapproval poll in GD shows the president with 29% approval on a "DEMOCRATIC" web site, when "liberal" pundits and "activists" can find absolutely nothing to praise this president over, they prove the author's point that "the narrators are far angrier than the audience." But this is exactly what happens when you dwell in echo chambers.

[saras]

42. The discussion fails to factor in the massive stupidity of Americans.

When someone has no better data than the opinion of the majority of Americans, they've lost the debate. It's over.