Micheal Moore I love you guy BUT your wrong on this one

[bigdarryl]

Capturing and putting Bin Laden on trail I don't think so http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/14/michael-moore-elisabeth-hasselbeck-bin-laden-the-view_n_962710.html

[marmar]

1. I'm with Mike.

nt

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Me too. n/t

[frylock]

12. me too

[sabrina 1]

24. Me too!

[canoeist52]

2. Oh, the information we could have learned. He's right- sunlight is a good thing.

[ZombieHorde]

3. I completely agree with both sides of this debate.

I know that is weird, but that is how I feel.

Summery executions are unethical, but fuck Osama bin Laden.

[lunatica]

10. I do too

for real. Maybe that's what makes it a real debate.

[popsicle ricky]

16. And fuck our founding fathers?

They thought evidence and trials were kinda' good.

[ZombieHorde]

19. Most of the Founding Fathers were slave owners; fuck them as hard as you can. nt

[Ikonoklast]

20. They had no problem with issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal against foreign enemy powers.

Written into the Constitution as an enumerated power granted to Congress.

[joeybee12]

4. I'm still torn...can someone verify the allies wanted to capture Hitler alive?

If so, please don't compare the murderer of 3,000 people to the mass murderer of millions...if there was some principle guiding us back then, why don't we have it now?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. I prefer justice, not vengence.

He should have been brought to trial, convicted, and then thrown in a maximum security prison to rot into irrelevence for the rest of his sorry life. Now he is a martyr, just what he wanted.

[JoePhilly]

7. If I was dropped into that situation by helicopter ... and I was on point

going through the rooms ...

And I saw OBL ...

And if he even BLINKED FUNNY ... sorry ... he's dead.

He's sent others to use suicide bombs ... has said he won't be taken alive ... will fight to the death.

He was very clear on this. No reason not to believe him.

[Historic NY]

26. +1

[CakeGrrl]

8. Oh, FFS

Something ELSE Obama screwed up? Should've taken him alive instead.

:eyes:

I'd bet a lot of the victims' families aren't going to be raking POTUS over the coals.

Did they not succeed in grabbing some intel while they were there?

[Jakes Progress]

22. Big supporter of the death penalty are you?

So if you are really, really angry and really really upset, due process doesn't count?

I have no idea what went on there. I have no idea what a trial would be like. But offing people for being bad is a slippery slope.

I just kind of suspect that if Obama had insisted on a trial, that would be what you support.

[sabrina 1]

25. Is everything about Obama now??

This is about the US Constitution, the Geneva Conventions, all those silly laws we say we care so much about. At least we did when Bush was president, and of course his supporters were the ones saying what our side is saying now. So, can we apologize to them now? They were right after all? :eyes:

I feel the same way now about OBL as I did when Bush was president. I never supported extra-judicial assassinations. I wanted him to go on trial, because that is what makes THIS country different from Third World dictatorships who just kill everyone they perceive as a threat to them. And because it was not about HIM, or the President, it is about us, the people. We had a right to a trial.

But what I've learned is that we are all talk. We love the Constitution and our 'Rule of Law' until we actually have to apply it and things get a little difficult.

I think we are nearly at the point where what Bush said was correct, that the Constitution is 'quaint, just a piece of paper'. I thought he was stupid when he said that. Now I see he knew way more about this country than I did.

[xocet]

30. Congratulations! You are the first person in the thread to mention President Obama....

You are seeing things that just are not there. No one but you mentioned President Obama.

Yes, Michael Moore is right in my opinion. A trial would have been preferable. The point is that the rule of law needs to be upheld.

Now that you have mentioned President Obama, though. How do you defend the fact that his administration has allowed President Bush et al to have gotten away with torture and other assorted crimes?

[bigwillq]

35. What does she win, Alex?!

:rofl: :P

[lunatica]

9. That would have been my first choice, but I'm not unhappy with what happened

If it's a choice between taking him out in a black ops stealth raid with him getting killed or going to war with a country and getting millions of people, including our soldiers killed and Bin Laden still alive, I'll take the black ops.

But getting him and making a martyr out of him by trying him in a court of law. Maybe that's not such a great tactic. The point is to minimize the victims while deflating the god like adulation of the killer by his followers.

[baldguy]

11. And what if you were wrong?

Or do you think the Bush Regime was incapable of lying when it suited their purposes? Bin Laden was killed in revenge for 9/11, but he wasn't the first was he?

[Blue_Tires]

13. I'm probably way off base, but part of me is at least curious if bin Laden on trial

could have uncovered some shattering truths about behind the scenes cooperation with some powerful Americans -- and not just with you-know-what, but everything: Buildup to the invasions, creating harmony or discord between certain Islamist factions, the timing of releasing his tapes, etc...

I'm gonna get this thread banished, aren't I?:yoiks:

[evilkumquat]

14. I have to agree with Michael Moore

Too often in this country we suspend our rights, laws and even beliefs when we get attacked.

The French attack us near the end of the 1790's, we strip First Amendment rights by passing the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Treasonous southern states rebel in the mid-1800's, we suspend habeas corpus.

The Japanese attack us in the mid-1900's, we suspend the Fourth Amendment.

Al-Qaeda attacks us at the beginning of the 2000's, we suspend habeas corpus, violate the Fourth Amendment and work real hard to destroy the First.

Bringing bin Laden to trial would have meant we trusted our system to work.

Assassinating him meant we're afraid it doesn't.

[MichiganVote]

15. Its a moot point now. If he had wanted a trial, he could have turned himself in.

As it is, he risked being shot and he was. He wasn't murdered, he wasn't tortured, he wasn't blown up. He was legitimately shot in an exchange he knew could and would come. No sympathy.

[Enthusiast]

17. Mike is right as usual.

Of course many want to control the dialog. In order to control what we know about 9/11 they could not allow Bin Laden to be heard.

[Life Long Dem]

18. Unless Bin Laden had a gun in his hand...

If it was a self defense then he should have been shot. Otherwise I'm for your constitutional rights. You have a right to a trial and your innocent until proven guilty. Hasslebeck is wrong.

[WhiteShoesATL]

21. mike is right

we've had nothing but bloodshed in Iraq since we brutally killed Saddam. Both Pres Lincoln and Gen. McCarthur were from far more conservative eras yet, still produced some of the most liberal occupying policies in the history of warfare... which have proven to work (well the South is still kinda fucked up but regardless lol)

[MissDeeds]

23. Moore is right n/t

[Ter]

27. Moore is right

Was Bin Laden killed because 9/11 wasn't him? The government didn't want him to speak.

[stuckinarut]

28. I with mike. n/t

We are no better than a school yard brute.

[Solomon]

29. I can just see all the hostages taken

and beheaded in the attempt to free him.

No thank you.

[Pisces]

31. In a perfect world we would have taken him into custody. He knew if he was caught it meant death.

This was a no win situation. Taking him into custody would have created a legal nightmare as well as a new reason for radicals to attack us, take us hostage etc.

[MedicalAdmin]

33. Another frightened American scared of that which has not happened ...

... and eager to toss the virtues this country was based on as well as the rule of law like a piece of filth onto the gutter.

If we give up what we stand for, then did we ever stand for anything?

[Pisces]

34. In times past the CIA just did the dirty work undercover. We were never puritans living up to our

ideals. Sorry that this little bit of reality has smudged your image of our Country. Anyone thinking that our virtue has been tarnished has been sleeping through the last century.

[MedicalAdmin]

38. Virtues are ideals, never attained but always strived for.

What I find objectionable, generally and not about your reasoned reply, is that we seen to have stopped trying.

[coalition_unwilling]

36. So then, following your logic, you wouln't really have any problem

if a foreign government that objected to our foreign or military policies sent a team of commandos into our country to assassinate our leaders? I ask what may seem like an absurd question only because, once you start down the 'might makes right' slippery slope, you can end up in some unpleasant and uncomfortable places.

[MedicalAdmin]

39. Of course anyone with this opinion would have a problem with it.

That is how many in an empire think. It's OK and just and righteous when we do it, but if any other nation does the same then they should be "bombed back into the stone age" to quote a similar thinker.

[OhioBlue]

32. I agree. Mike's wrong on this one. n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

37. What a wonderfully enlightening original post. Might we have

the benefit of your thinking, oh wise one? :sarcasm:

N.B. Not just Michael Moore. To the list you can add Glenn Greenwald and Noam Chomsky.