If Obama was a strong President, would anyone be worried about Nader running?

[MannyGoldstein]

Poll question: If Obama was a strong President, would anyone be worried about Nader running?

I personally think that if the Raw Deal had been replaced by the New Deal, and real unemployment was running at 5% rather than 10%+, nobody would give a rat's turd about Nader running for President.

What do you think?

[Avalux]

1. Oh Manny. Please. n/t

[trueblue2007]

54. If nader had not have run, Gore would have won

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

4. By that token, Clinton was weak

Since Gore was carrying on for him.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Gore chose to run as his own man

I don't think it's comparable.

[treestar]

6. From wiki

"At the July 1940 Democratic Convention in Chicago, Illinois Roosevelt easily swept aside challenges from Farley and John Nance Garner, his Vice-President. Garner was a Texas conservative who had turned against FDR in his second term due to his liberal economic and social policies. As a result, FDR decided to pick a new running mate; he chose Henry A. Wallace of Iowa, his Secretary of Agriculture and an outspoken liberal. Wallace was strenuously opposed by many of the party's conservatives, who felt that he was too radical and "eccentric" in his private life (he practiced New Age spiritual beliefs, and often consulted with the controversial Russian spiritual guru Nicholas Roerich) to be an effective running mate. However, FDR insisted that without him on the ticket he would decline renomination. Wallace won the vice-presidential nomination by a vote of 626 to 329 for House Speaker William B. Bankhead of Alabama."

FDR was weak. He had a primary challenger.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. My hypothesis is that people are *worried* about a challenger because

they perceive that Obama's weak. Not that he *has* a challenger because he's weak.

[ProSense]

7. Typical

"If Obama was a strong President, would anyone be worried about Nader running?"

...misrepresentation of the facts. Nader isn't running, and no one would give a shit if he did.

The fucker isn't even a Democrat and he's out talking up a primary challenge to every RW asshole (Fox, Tucker Carlson) who will listen.

This is a GOP/media-driven attempt to confuse people who aren't paying close attention to the dynamics.

[MrMickeysMom]

10. Doesn't matter if the "fucker" is or isn't a Democrat...

It didn't matter in the past either, did it? It was STILL influential and it got the right people to change, albeit in small ways.

Gee, people are that clueless? Who would have thunk it? I think people have stopped giving a shit and this explains why so many don't even bother to vote, thus weakening Obama's position due to a third party candidate.

[ProSense]

13. Hmmmm?

"Gee, people are that clueless? Who would have thunk it?"

No shit!

Ralph Nader praises Sarah Palin

[MrMickeysMom]

21. Here... since you like reading Nader...

You may as well read the rest of what he has to say: http://www.nader.org/

Or, do you just read what you want to read when it comes to criticism of the President?

Yeah, I thought so...

[SwampG8r]

30. finally

i knew if i read and read at some point you would post something i agree with 100%

[JoePhilly]

9. No one is worrying about Nader running.

Most of us find the notion pretty silly.

Oh ... btw ... is he running???

Um, no.

[tinrobot]

11. Ummm... Nader isn't running

He's trying to recruit someone to run.

[la la]

12. i think....

little ralphie needs his infusion of his 15 minutes of fame again----i think most of us ( i HOPE most of us) have finally gotten his 'number', so to speak---he's a hog for attention- just like bachmann, perry, palin et al.....

[mikekohr]

14. He is, and I'm not worried

and his re-election is a done deal. 52.3% Take it to the bank.

[saras]

15. People are worried because winner-take-all SUCKS DEMON SHIT.

We have a system that actively prevents us from having appropriate representation. We could eliminate the spoiler effect, in quite a number of different ways. The result is nearly always that the pressure of public opinion moves all the parties closer to public opinion.

In particular it eliminates the effect where you have two conservatives running against each other but trying to introduce a more liberal candidate actually supports the more conservative of the two. This is so OBVIOUSLY STUPID that it baffles me why people tolerate it, let alone advocate for it as normal and good.

[FrenchieCat]

16. I thinking that someone's weak,

but it ain't this President! http://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/misinterpreting-a-man%E2%80%99s-strength-is-our-weakness-not-his/

[BzaDem]

17. That doesn't make sense. Let's say Bernie Sanders were President now, and he fought tirelessly

against a Republican congress for the maximalist liberal position (making him a strong President, at least by your definition). But let's say the Republican Congress told him to go jump in a lake, that Sanders got nothing passed, and that he was running for re-election with high unemployment through no fault of his own.

In that situation, of course people would be worried about Nader running. Sanders would be vulnerable, Nader would call him a corporate stooge and run to satisfy his ego, and the minuscule fraction of the vote that Nader gets just might be enough to flip a milimeter-tight election in Florida.

[Fruittree]

53. Right!!

I am so tired of people blaming on man for what we have a whole government to work on. How can everyone not see where the real problem lies???

[babylonsister]

18. Unrec. Even beneath you, Manny. nt

[TwilightGardener]

19. I'm not worried about it. In fact, I don't give a rat's turd what Ralphie The Delusional does.

[jefferson_dem]

20. Good grief.

That's some thin gruel right there.

[vaberella]

26. Amen. n/t

[Starbucks Anarchist]

22. Who the hell is afraid of Nader running?

The only ones who give a rat's turd about Nader running are Ralph Nader and a rat's turd.

[krawhitham]

23. people will ALWAYS get pissy when Nader runs because of 2000

[Fruittree]

24. So somehow you believe if Obama was a

"strong president" real unemployment would be running at 5%?? How so? Personally, I think if Nader wants to run - let him - and if you want to vote for him - that's fine too. Whoever wins, wins but until people realize there isn't some magician in the White House who's going to fix everything they'll just keep being disappointed. Obama is a strong president otherwise he wouldn't have accomplished as much as he has with the obstructionist/"we oppose anything you want" congress that he has and the "supporters" who think support means, let's just watch what you do then sit home and complain when it doesn't work out exactly how we want, when we want.

[vaberella]

25. Nader is runnning? People are scared Obama will be ousted by Nader? Give me a break.

This is some kind of joke.

[CakeGrrl]

27. Nader isn't running. Unrec for a(nother) misinformed premise

among other issues with this poll.

:eyes:

[YellowCosmicSun]

28. Nobody's worried. We're just annoyed that a rat turd is trying to interfere with our Primary

[LWolf]

48. WHAT primary? I think that's the whole point. nt

[Inuca]

29. Nader is NOT running, and

if he were I don't think many would be worried. Annoyed, maybe.

[ChiciB1]

44. I Don't Think Nader Will EVER Get Many Votes Again. Ever Since 2000

whether it was votes to him that cost Gore this state, and I don't believe it did, his name is probably MUD to more people than not.

Deep in my soul, and I know many don't feel as I do, I've always felt Gore won Florida... straight up! I don't remember the man's name but he actually testified before Congress about how he was recruited to screw around with the voting machines here. He even said it WAS done before, but I don't think it was during a National election. If someone remembers his name please post it. I had a lot of info about it on another computer and I lost it.

Why is there so much talk about him anyway? I haven't posted like I used to so I may have missed what he's doing.

[emulatorloo]

31. Dumbass Push Poll. I expect better of you n/t

[CakeGrrl]

35. Really? Based on all the other threads, I don't. -nt

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phx_Dem]

33. Scared? Manny, I think Karl Rove has a new mission for you.

[JNelson6563]

34. lolz Scared of Nader??

No one I know with even the slightest clue considers him anything to give a moment's consideration to, much less actually worry about.

lolz Dude, you need to get out of the bubble for a while.

Julie

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Interesting Bit Of Sophistry

You know the answer. In a close race every vote counts. And yeah, President Obama is as vulnerable as any incumbent candidate running in a era of economic pain and anxiety.

[Pisces]

37. Fuck Nader. No one gives a shit.

[Patriot 76]

38. No one is worried about him running.

But the rewriting of his history by his devout supporters is worrisome.

[Wait Wut]

39. Other.

Who the hell is afraid of Nader? And, Pres. Obama is a strong President.

[bklyncowgirl]

40. There are always some people who are not going to be happy and like to fantasize.

Do you see any credible challengers jumping in?

So far the "I want a real Democrat" crowd has been disappointed by: Howard Dean, Gary Hart, Hillary Clinton (via Bill), Bernie Sanders (not a Dem but could I suppose register as one if he wanted to), Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold and just about any other politician you'd care to mention.

I'm not holding my breath. Reality is that except for a couple of keyboard campaign managers no one has any intention of challenging Obama and being blamed for putting the like of Rick Perry in the White House.

[Whisp]

41. fertilizer factory working overtime.

jesus, what imaginary rubbish people come up with here.

unfuckingRec

[Honeycombe8]

42. First, you don't include a response for those NOT "scared", which is majority....

No one is "scared" of Nader. So right away, you are hereby spotted as a Naderite.

[ChiciB1]

43. I Have Not Heard That Nader Is Running... However I HAVE Heard Many Times

from MSM that people are really wanting an Independent to make it big. The consensus by them is that this won't happen, and that an Independent simply can't win. It will just throw a monkey wrench into the fray.

Having said that, I do have to admit that my daughter & her husband and their oldest son just switched from Democrat to Independent. This is a state where you have to be either a Dem or Repuke to vote in primaries. Given that Obama will be the nominee I don't think it matter much for the primaries in 2012, but WILL matter after that.

As one who never chose Obama as my 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice, THEY were the ones who pushed me hard to hit the streets and campaign for Obama in 2008. And I walked many miles and rang many door bells, registering people to vote and urging them to vote for Obama. It was "all the rage" with the Hope & Change thingey, so I got on board. Not going to do it again, it's still very hot down here in Sept./Oct., and even though I don't feel super about it, I will more likely than not vote for Obama again. This state is a very important state to win and some say it's Obama's to lose! HORRORS!

But then, THIS STATE has problems with voting period!

[Ikonoklast]

45. The only thing Nader is running

out of is money, so like clockwork, he pops his racist pinhead out of his cubbyhole in order to get face time on the right-wing enabling media, and the sheep all bleat 'baaaaa!' and open their wallets to him.

Like Palin, in many respects, he knows how to work the house.

Oh, and no one is scared of Nader doing anything except running his piehole on Fox; it's what he does best.

[Jennicut]

46. Ralph Nader is 77. No one is afraid of him at this point. If John McCain was

too old then Nader is ancient.

[libodem]

47. Fuck Nader

The traitor.

[bhikkhu]

49. If the economy were strong, Obama would be perceived as a strong president

So to some extent I agree with you.

You do know that about half of the original stimulus package proposed by Obama, the part that was supposed to most directly improve the jobs situation, was effectively blocked by the repugs and the blue dogs in congress?

The current jobs package is the second attempt to get things through.

[COLGATE4]

50. Right on, Mannie. K&R

[Zoeisright]

51. Nader takes the stupid vote, which is huge.

So yes, he is a problem. I wish Nader would just get his ass out of public life. He's long past worn out his welcome.

[OmahaBlueDog]

52. At this point, a Nader candidacy would be equivalent to Pat Paulsen or Harold Stassen

No one would take it too seriously.

If the Greens want to get serious about being viewed as a national party, I'd urge them to skip running for President and instead focus on running for state houses, congressional seats, and in Senate races.

The American people, as a whole, almost never really want change. What they want is whatever is screwing with the status quo ended. In 2008, the overseas wars were a cluster****, the economy was in full meltdown, and John McCain didn't seem to have an answer or a clue. Enter Barack Obama - he stood for change. Problem: he tried to finally get some kind of national healthcare plan in place (actual change) instead of doing what he was elected to do -- which was to end the wars and undo eight years (or 16 years -- depending on when you start counting) of economic damage (i.e. ending whatever is screwing with the status quo).

There are two potential third party candidacies that I could see dooming Obama, and one that damages the GOP -- everything else would just be window dressing to the race between Obama and whoever the GOP nominates.

IF Jon Huntsman decided to breakaway and run as an independent, he could cause serious havoc for the President. Think John Anderson in 1980. This scenario would be most likely to play out if the GOP nominates a Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann type. The logic for a Huntsman independent candidacy would be to try to seize the socially moderate elements of the GOP, independents, and conservadems.

IF Al Gore decided to run, that could also hurt the President badly. Mind you, I don't think there's a chance he would, but if he were 100% convinced that Obama had no chance in the GE, he might reason that he could appeal to progressives and left leaning indies -- and could probably fundraise well in the tech sector.

I think that if Mitt Romney is nominated, there will be intense pressure on the Tea Party to sit down and shut up. That said, there are many Republicans that view Romney as something of a closet liberal, and many social conservatives who will be loathe to vote for a member of TCOJC&LDS. Enter Sarah Palin. IF Sarah Palin chose to run under a Tea Party Banner against Obama and Romney, Romney would be toast. I don't think this will happen, but I think conservatives won't hesitate to use it as a tacit threat to get the party focused on Perry instead of Romney.

[MrSlayer]

55. Other:

And furthermore,