Is it just me or is it outrageous for a black woman liberal to be compared to the Klan

[Empowerer]

because she said that some white liberals are racist?

If calling someone a racist is unacceptable, certainly comparing someone to racist terrorists is just as, if not more, unacceptable.

http://newsone.com/nation/elonjameswhite/salon-melissa-harris-perry-kkk/

[TheWraith]

1. Yes. And what's worse is that there's people here defending it as appropriate.

Sirota should be fired over his comments. They're inexcusable.

[KoKo]

2. Do you have a better link...this one didn't seem to work. Thanks.n/t

[GeorgeGist]

3. Racism isn't color blind ...

as your post clearly demonstrates.

[jpgray]

4. It's not just you

Any time it is implied that white liberals are racist, they fall over themselves to absolve their own behavior. Some will be merely self-serving and apologetic in their self-absolution. Others will attack and attempt to diminish the accuser to acquit themselves of the charge.

What they don't realize is that dismissing the accusation so easily makes it appear that they don't care about the concerns of those harmed by racism.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

7. I care about legitimate racism, like a successful diversity program being destroyed by...

Teabaggers in Wake County, NC. I also care about voter suppression efforts by NC Republicans and the need to have a government-issued ID. What I don't care about is Obama's head cheerleader, petty Mean Girl MHP, making baseless accusations about white liberals. Nor do I care for the Clinton v. Obama nonsense, when a quick Google search will return link after link of articles in liberal publications criticizing Clinton during his 8-year tenure. MHP does not get to re-write history.

[Empowerer]

8. Who determines whether racism is "legitimate?" nt

[These Eyes]

9. Racism is only legitimate whe perpetrated by Republicans and Teabaggers,

Per the DU dictionary.

[FrenchieCat]

25. The majority decides.....

That why the "others" are called minorities.

[jpgray]

12. Her generalization is in many ways as unhelpful as the response to it, true..

Her argument doesn't make much sense as it stands, since any president would have an easier time in '93-'97 than '09-'13, and be held to a lower standard. Her argument has to be that a white president in Obama's situation would be held to a lower standard to have any bite.

[Empowerer]

14. Her argument has been dissected ad auseum

but no one who objected to her argument is talking about Lyons' response, much less condemning it.

Why the radio silence on Lyons' comment after so much noise about MHP's?

[treestar]

60. They criticized Clinton

But did not attack him personally ask such - he wasn't called a disappointment or a betrayer or weak/spineless. He wasn't criticized for everything, maybe policies. But not for everything he did. Which is what we have here.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

5. Yes, and where is the outrage here on DU?

[MNBrewer]

23. I'd say the outrage is right here!

But where's the thoughtful critique to the outrageous statment? Certainly NOT here.

[Cali_Democrat]

6. Calling someone a racist is not unacceptable

if they are racist.

[Empowerer]

11. But considering plenty of folks here believe that there is no such thing as a liberal bigot

they insisted that Prof. Harris-Perry's assertion that racism exists among some progressives was unacceptable. And it provoked an incredible amount of outrage here.

So the question why similar objections aren't being raised to Gene Lyon's comparison of MHP to the Ku Klux Klan. I see you did raise an objection in another thread, much to your credit. But you are a very lonely voice.

[frazzled]

17. She didn't call someone a racist (or anyone)

She posited that a kind of racism was underpinning the double standard to which this black president has been held by some on the left.

Now, Gene Lyons could have responded by saying that MHP was being hyperbolic/authoritarian, whatever. No, he chose to compare her to a Klansman--that is to say, to a person whose racism is so deep that they commit violence on its behalf.

Now who committed the bigger sin here? Hands down, Lyons.

[MNBrewer]

24. I don't think her theory of a "double standard" holds water.

[Empowerer]

26. Yes, we know - you've made that clear. But do you think Lyons' comparison of

her to the Ku Klux Klan holds water?

[MNBrewer]

29. I don't know if they hold water

Do you? If not, why not?

[EffieBlack]

32. Wow - you really don't want to deal with that question, do you?

You've been dancing around it all night.

Very telling.

:rofl:

[MNBrewer]

33. I'm not the person who is outraged

Why should I bear the burden of proof?

[EffieBlack]

37. Burden of proof?

:rofl:

[MNBrewer]

41. Empowerer expressed being outraged

When asked to explain why, demands to know why I'm NOT!

Who's avoiding the question???

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frazzled]

27. Well, maybe you don't think it does, but ...

(a) that doesn't make her theory "a photo negative of KKK racial thought."

(b) you've given no reason why her theory doesn't hold water, so it's hard to take you seriously.

[MNBrewer]

28. I've stated my opinions in other threads as to

why it's not a good argument (the higher standard theory). 1. Plenty of people abandoned Bill Clinton for his equally competent policies. 2. The media world is very different today than it was when BC was President.

And, I'm not defending Lyons' statement other than to say it's outrageous just to be outraged and not make an argument against it other than being outraged! If you're outraged that he mentioned that her line of reasoning was getting closer to a photo negative of KKK racial thought", WHY are you outraged? Because it's not true, or because the statement was even made regardless of its merit?

[MNBrewer]

10. If you're upset by the comparison, offset it with some contrasts.

Don't just flail your arms and scream!!

[Empowerer]

13. What does THAT mean?

How does one "offset" a comparison to the Klan? And why should anyone have to?

Did you demand that those who attacked MHP for pointing out racism in the progressive ranks stop "flailing their arms and screaming" but instead "offset" the accusation?

[MNBrewer]

15. Ever heard of compare/contrast?

How are her views not what they were characterized to be? How does it not resemble "a photo negative of KKK racial thought"? In what way is it different? CONTRAST her statements with KKK racial thought.

I think that Joan Walsh did a very good job of offsetting the accusation with a contrasting argument. She didn't just get offended and flail about talking about of "offensive" it was.

Why should anyone have to? Why shouldn't they? If the comparison is invalid, bring up supporting evidence.

[ZombieHorde]

16. Unless she is killing people, or at least threatening people's safety over "race,"

or some other trait, then comparing her to the KKK is ridiculous.

[Dr Fate]

59. As compared to Liberal racists, who are certainly killing people and threating people's safety....

...by not supporting Obama.

The Liberals DESERVED to be called something as awful and low as racists. That is the real difference here.

People who get called "racists" for not supporting a politician are supoposed to say NICE things back to the truth-tellers who make the charge.

[These Eyes]

18. No, it's not just you...

I believe the reason you're not seeing outrage around here is because those she called out feel she's getting what she deserves. I guarantee you, if she had written about white conservatives what she has written about white liberals, she would be the DU darling right now.

[Swede]

19. It's beyond outrageous.

Her editorial is like flypaper.

[Tarheel_Dem]

20. You notice how the same folks who dismiss Prof. Harris-Perry's "concerns" out of hand.....

have fully embraced those of Maxine Waters'? They are so concerned about us black folk that they're posting out-of-context crap from CBC members, from teabagger sites like NorquistDogLake. It's laughable, and ever so transparent. :hi:

[Swede]

21. They also do some fancy editing to boost their crap.

Fox News would be proud.

[Tarheel_Dem]

22. Someone noteable said that "it's all in the editing". The name escapes me.

but you're right, they would be proud. :hi:

[EffieBlack]

30. If a black politician criticizes the President, she's the voice of the people

If they defend the President, he's a sellout.

If a black academician criticizes the President's supporters, he's a brilliant, plain-speaking truthteller.

If a black academician criticizes the President's critics, she's a race-baiting, racist charlatan who got her tenure with junk studies and deserves to be compared to the Ku Klux Klan.

Got it?

[ClarkUSA]

31. You nailed it.

EffieBlack (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-29-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. If a black politician criticizes the President, she's the voice of the people

If they defend the President, he's a sellout.

If a black academician criticizes the President's supporters, he's a brilliant, plain-speaking truthteller.

If a black academician criticizes the President's critics, she's a race-baiting, racist charlatan who got her tenure with junk studies and deserves to be compared to the Ku Klux Klan.

Got it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=785665&mesg_id=785785

No double standard there, right? :sarcasm:

[EffieBlack]

35. And the hits just keep on coming . . .

If a liberal black woman criticizes a group of white liberals because of a tendency toward racist judgments, SHE's a racist because it's wrong to call liberals racists . . .

Except, of course, the liberal you're calling a racist is black because, while a white liberal cannot, by definition, be racist, apparently a black liberal can be and is racist if she offends white liberal sensibility in any way.

And while it is a horrifying act for a black woman to accuse any white liberals of being racist, it's no big deal for a white man to compare a black woman to the KKK if she steps out of line and criticizes white people with her uppity self.

[ClarkUSA]

36. You did it again. Effie, please start an OP with your previous two replies verbatim, nothing more!

They illustrate MHP's point exactly. :applause:

[EffieBlack]

38. I just might do that . . .

[ClarkUSA]

40. Please do.

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. Effie you have encapsulated this whole mess in just one small post!

It really is that simple, and that's shameful. Kudos to you! :applause:

[ClarkUSA]

39. If you think that was good, read Effie Part 2 -->

If a liberal black woman criticizes a group of white liberals because of a tendency toward racist judgments, SHE's a racist because it's wrong to call liberals racists . . .

Except, of course, the liberal you're calling a racist is black because, while a white liberal cannot, by definition, be racist, apparently a black liberal can be and is racist if she offends white liberal sensibility in any way.

And while it is a horrifying act for a black woman to accuse any white liberals of being racist, it's no big deal for a white man to compare a black woman to the KKK if she steps out of line and criticizes white people with her uppity self.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=785665&mesg_id=785797

[Tarheel_Dem]

45. That was excellent, and spot on. Melissa, apparently, overestimated the smarts of.....

her Ivy League colleagues, and the overpaid members of the Professional Left. I think she thought she was writing her usual thought provoking commentary that would start a thoughtful debate. But instead she's been inadvertently elevated to Grand Wizard status? How the hell does that happen? :shrug:

[ClarkUSA]

52. It happened because Melissa Harris-Perry hit a great big white elite liberal nerve.

She nailed them. So have we all. Thus, they all doth protest too much, methinks.

[EffieBlack]

53. Yes - and now she must be destroyed . . .

[ClarkUSA]

54. Yes, but we won't let them do that to MHP. We will not shut up and sit down.

Nor will we forget.

[Number23]

50. Nailed it, Effie

+100000

[Honeycombe8]

43. You can always find racism.....if you look hard enough. Or are paranoid enough.

But there are probably racists in every group, of every race. I've been snubbed & been treated poorly by black people who were very nice to the blacks in front of me or behind me. It was because I was white. And I'm sure that has happened to black people a lot. And to latinos, when Asians were rude to them. And to Arabs.

It's probably a condition of being human...to gravitate to our own "group" and be leery of those not in "our" group. But since we're in an advanced civilization, I think we forget our basic nature. We're supposed to be above all that. And for the most part, we are.

But feeling a kinship toward one of your own is not racism, I think. It's a commonality, a sharing of culture and such. But it's not all whites. I can tell you that I feel no kinship whatsoever with some white redneck types I've met or known....while my best friend is black (I'm white). I've been with my friend and seen her give a passing nod to a total stranger who is black. "She's a sister," she explained to me. I get it. They share something. A common experience. Something that I can't share with my friend. But it doesn't mean she's racist, when she doesn't nod at passing white women.

All that is very different from deep racism, the kind we all know. The one that attaches stereotypes to certain races or ethnicities. When it comes to that, calling out an untruth that a black person states is not racism, when you think it's not true. For example, I wonder (I don't know, but I wonder) if the fact that Af. Americans have such a high unemployment rate is because they have a higher % of people who don't finish high school, and also because they tend to have the sorts of low paying service and manual labor jobs that have been hit the hardest in this recession. Not because they are black. That doesn't mean I'm racist to wonder that or think that. It might be racism, though, just to say it's because they're black and not white or Asian or whatever. Not sure about that.

[Union Scribe]

44. If someone uses racially charged accusations and gets some thrown back

I'm not losing a whole lot of sleep over it. Both of them are idiots, and idiots tend to find each other in battle.

[EffieBlack]

46. False equivalency

There's a big difference between saying that some liberals have a tendency toward racism and comparing a specific individual to the Ku Klux Klan because she expressed that point of view.

[Union Scribe]

47. So what do you want?

All of a sudden I'm supposed to feel sorry for her because someone took it up a notch? That's what happens with incendiary bullshit (which she started), it gets bigger and worse with each volley. There hasn't been a better example than this fiasco for a long time.

[EffieBlack]

48. SHE started it?

She's the first person ever to bring up race in the context of politics? If mean old MHP hadn't picked on those poor innocent liberals, none of whom have ever done anything wrong or ever evidenced even the slightest racial bias, we'd be all post-racial now.

Of course, SHE started it - otherwise, how can anyone justify the vicious attack that Lyons launched at her as just "taking it up a notch."

I call bullshit.

[Union Scribe]

49. "I call bullshit."

No, you post bullshit. And you twist words, too. I didn't "justify" anything said about her. I'm just not getting out my violin. And no one said she was the first person blah blah blah....she just set THIS shit storm in motion, which is the "it" being referenced.

[fishwax]

51. that part of Lyons article was pathetic

and revolting.

[Empowerer]

55. Kick

To offer another chance to drown out the crickets ...

[EffieBlack]

73. I'll kick it again for you

But the crickets are still winning out . . .

[vaberella]

56. Apparently it is not..not even on this board. Many agreed with that man's assesment. n/t

[Dr Fate]

57. FOX news is always running reports on how Liberals are the "real" racists and elitists too.

Whether it is FOX news or this lady everyone is talking about, I would agree that it would be very outrageous to point out any hypocrisy or inconsistency when it comes to exposing the TRUTH about how racist all these liberals really must be.

Look, just b/c FOX news also says liberals are racists and elitists does not mean it cant be true. These certain liberals are obvioulsy elitist and racist- all you have to do is look at Obama's poll numbers for proof.

The Liberals DESERVED to be called something as awful and low as "racists." That is the real difference here. People who get called "racists" for not supporting a politician are supoposed ADMIT IT, deny it or merely say NICE things back to the truth-tellers who make the charge.

Even Liberals should know that.

[vaberella]

61. False equivalency. The point is that there are RACISTS on both sides of the aisle.

Do not assume they are not. And don't sit there and make it seem when there are those of us who call out racism on the Left that we're saying that they're the "real" anything---as though there are no racists on the the right. The point is that racism is on both ends and but it's assumed that if you're on the left that you can not be racist. If there are people to say that Blacks can be racist, then why can't some lefties be racist too? Why also can't they be called out for it? There are also lefties who are homophobic.

[Dr Fate]

63. My point is that these Liberals DESERVED to be called racists for not fully supporting a politician.

And the truth-teller who made this charge does NOT deserve to be argued against or attacked in return.

Liberals DESERVED to be called something as low and awful as "racist" for not supporting this politician.

The truth-telling lady does not deserve to be attacked or insulted in return.

Liberals should either ADMIT they are racist or change their ways by pledging full support for Obama, no matter what he does or does not do.

Instead of admitting they are wrong/racist, they choose to attack the truth tellers who KNOW they are racists.

[vaberella]

66. What are you talking about?

Your post no sense in relation to the discussion at hand.

[Dr Fate]

67. Yes it is. Liberals deserved to be called racist by this lady. She did not deserve to be attacked.

Liberals deserved to be labeled with somthing as low down and awful as racism. After all, they failed to fully suport a politician.

The truth telling lady who exposed their racism does NOT deserve to be argued against or attacked in kind.

Instead of arguing back or spinning in denial, the liberals she speaks of should just admit their racism and pledge to make it up by supporting Obama, no matter what he does.

[Supersedeas]

65. FOX news has a particular perspective, how is it any less relevant?

[Dr Fate]

68. Agreed. Fox news and us Obama-no-matter-what supporters both got this one right.

FOX news and DEMS KNOW that the Liberals are the real racist and elitists as opposed to conservatives/centrists.

Just look at your typical liberal- organic garden, trips to Martha's Vinyard, cozy corporate board room connections. How is this type of person ever supposed to relate to The President?

[lunatica]

58. I defend Melissa Perry Harris as a person and what she said is right

I don't care what color, sex or age she is. Gene Lyons is indefensible in his article.

[treestar]

62. Yes, that entire paragraph is outrageous

There is no "photo negative" on this subject anyway.

This Lyons got himself into such a tizzy over the suggestion there is a double standard applied to the President. It is strange why he gets so upset about it. Makes me think he knows he's doing it.

Maybe he thought that sounded clever, but it sure was uncalled for. And not so clever.

[slackmaster]

64. It's just hyperbole

Calling it "outrageous" would be meta-hyperbole.

[JVS]

69. Attacking liberals is the kind of think Hitler would do, so she deserves what she gets.

[Bobbie Jo]

74. WTF?

And today's Godwin award goes to....

Not even touching the "she deserves what she gets" gem. Maybe it was something she wore. ....

[Major Hogwash]

70. I don't think it is just you.

There are many people that are calling for a retraction of Lyon's comments about Harris-Perry.

[joshcryer]

71. I've come to the conclusion that there are some progressives here who ... aren't.

They just wear the progressive cape and feign progressivism.

[TheKentuckian]

72. You are quite right, it is appalling and stupid. Bachman was stupid too, she should be compared to

Rothchild...eltistist, kinda racist, sort of a ratfucker, and a tireless defender of shit policies in a fit of idol worship.

[EffieBlack]

75. How telling that MHP saying Joan Walsh wasn't really her friend provoked more outrage on DU

than Gene Lyons calling MHP a foolish little girl who bullied her way into tenure and was comparable to Michelle Bachmann and the Ku Klux Klan.

It's obvious that, even in some progressive circles, the sensibilities of white people must be protected from offense at all costs. On the other hand, black folk have to tread very lightly in those same circles since, once they are deemed guilty of offending those sensibilities, they are pretty much fair game for whatever abuse is thrown at them for stepping out of line.

To recap:

Melissa Harris-Perry writes that some white people apply a racial double standard . . . HUGE brouhaha ensues on DU, with folks accusing MHP of calling ALL white progressives (including all white DUers) racists (which she did not do).

Joan Walsh differs with her, prefacing her disagreement with a specific note that she and MHP are friends.

MHP says that she was "shocked and angered" that Wash would "deploy our professional familiarity as a shield against claims of her own bias is very troubling." . . . All hell breaks loose on DU, with folks accusing Professor Harris-Perry of all manner of insults against Walsh

Gene Lyons attacks Professor Harris-Perry as a foolish, ignorant bully who intimidated her way into tenure and then compares her to Michelle Bachmann and the Ku Klux Klan. . . . Crickets . . . except for the taunts of those who claim that MHP deserved to be attacked in this way because, in so many words, "she'd asked for it" by criticizing white people.

Duly noted . . .