Howard Dean TODAY on MTP-"...I would let this thing go to Conference Committee and

[jenmito]

let's see if we can fix this some more." What happened to him wanting to "kill the bill"? He seems to change his position every day. :shrug:

ETA-He said THIS days ago: "If it were up to me, I'd kill the bill entirely, then have the House start again in reconciliation, which is what should have happened in the first place."

[Progressive_Angel]

1. that was always his position

on hcr

[jenmito]

8. No it wasn't. He said...

"If it were up to me, I'd kill the bill entirely, then have the House start again in reconciliation, which is what should have happened in the first place."

[LaydeeBug]

30. and if it were up to him today (or me for that matter) that's still what he'd do

but since it's not up to him, if he were a senator, he' vote FOR the bill and see if we can't get something better in conference.

[jenmito]

32. No he wouldn't have voted for it if he were a senator.

He would've voted AGAINST it. But TODAY he said he'd vote for it to get into conference. He changed.

[Hissyspit]

38. VIDEO Here, so everyone can hear the entire conversation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=415619&mesg_id=415619

[NJmaverick]

2. When you are not actually in charge of anything you are free to change you position

on a whim.

[jenmito]

11. Yup. And he HAS changed his position

on a whim.

[Better Believe It]

3. What happened? Possibly Rahm Emanuel's "sharp elbows" are coming into play against liberals.

Ya think that might be happening?

It wouldn't be the first time Rahm Emanual goes after liberals while his coddles conservatives.

That's his MO.

[BklnDem75]

13. LOL! The Rahminator!!!

He's the cause of every evil in the world! Ah ha! Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!

[jenmito]

15. You think Rahm SCARED Dean into changing his position?

:rofl:

[Better Believe It]

36. Does Howard have any skeletons in his closet .... outside of medical ones?

That Rahm might have information on?

:)

[karynnj]

24. I don't think so, here

The Obama administration gave Dean absolutely nothing. Therefore, they have nothing to threaten him with. It could be that Dean has seen that they apparently have 60 votes (until the vote nothing is 100%) and that he has read the summaries from others of what is in the bill. As it can't be the "stick", it could be a "carrot", but I suspect it is just that Dean is backing away from being against the biggest expansion in health care since the 1960s. This is not that out of line with what he wanted in 2004.

[bluestateguy]

4. If he says "let it go to conference committee" then he is saying the Senate should pass it

I don't know if that's what he meant, but that is the logical extension of what he is saying.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Impetuosity, it's part of his charm

Should teach his most ardent followers from collectively jumping off a rhetorical cliff with him, but, as we saw this week, it hasn't.

[EFerrari]

9. Baloney. Dean actually follows events and isn't in an entrenched position.

Smart people do things like that, you know. :)

[ClarkUSA]

20. I'll remember that the next time I hear whining about how Pres. Obama deviated on a campaign promise

:)

[karynnj]

25. Absolutely -

Nothing would be worse than taking a position and sticking with it, in spite of anything new learned about it.

[EFerrari]

6. You may not get this but it is the mark of a thoughtful person

to consider the outcome of an issue more than their personal image.

[jenmito]

10. That's spin that doesn't make sense.

[karynnj]

Yes it does

The fact is that the right made sticking rigidity to a position a virtue. But, thoughtful people do not do this. If you don't allow yourself to change positions when you come to realize your original one no longer fits the current situation, you are INTENTIONALLY advocating things you no longer believe are best.

Here, it is clear that Dean learned that he was wrong on the inclusion of the Kerry provision he liked. It is quite possible that he has been impressed by the things enumerated by Kerry, other Senators and some respected commentators. In addition, having 60 votes and a scheduled vote changes where we are. This is FAR beyond where we have been on HCR in the past. The fact is that if they win the cloture vote, they will have a bill passing the Senate by Christmas.

Dean then speaks of onto reconciliation. I actually hope that Pelosi agrees to pass it as is and has the support to do so. If that happens, it never has to come back to the Senate - it is passed. Now, for those who say reconciliation can make it better, consider if it changes it much at all - it may fail to pass.

[TheKentuckian]

7. I dunno but nothing substantial is happening with conference

the structure is set as far as how it will be funded and how it will work. Conference may yield a little more subsidies but the basic plan is the Baucus bill and that's the way it will be.

[jenmito]

12. I'm sure that's what Dean thought when he said what he originally said...

but today, he said something different.

[phleshdef]

14. Because Howard Dean is a normal guy who can see things differently after having more time to think.

[jenmito]

16. I'm glad to see him coming to his senses.

;)

[BzaDem]

17. The funny thing is that Dean knows that

a) The bill is not going to fundamentally change in Conference
b) The conference report has a 99%+ chance of becoming law

He wants the bill to pass (if the alternative is nothing). If he didn't, the easiest way to kill it would be to kill the Senate bill.

[jenmito]

26. And that's probably why he

said what he said FIRST. I wonder why he changed his position.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

31. He recognized the futility of his advice

It was worth a shot. Didn't go anywhere. Having done what he can do, revert to good soldier mode.

Or... much more subtle... he recognized that calling for changes in conference is the same as calling for the bill to be killed since any substantial improvements in conference would kill the bill, so it's a more hopeful sounding way of saying the same thing.

[SpartanDem]

18. He started thinking rationally again

and the rational thing to do is t0 pass it and see if it can be improved anymore in conference.

[girl_interrupted]

23. Because Dean realizes these idiots will pass it

as it is. They have the numbers for that, don't they? Nelson is out there bragging how they got rid of the public option. So it goes. What he is hoping for now, is that they can try and fix the crap, somewhat, before they do. It's called taking a bad siutuation and trying to make it better. That's all that can be done, at this stage.

[Oregone]

19. He was probably told a blowjob to his special interest would be inserted in conference

He no longer needed to use fake populism to derout a bill excluding him. Now he gets paid off by those he represents, as much as the other congressmen and lobbyist.


Ugggggggg.


Don't ever trust anyone older than 5.

[w4rma]

21. Obama and Rahm seem to be working for Wall Street every day. (nt)

[ClarkUSA]

22. Tell that to Lily Ledbetter.

:eyes:

[girl_interrupted]

27. I'd be happy to

since one doesnt have anything to do with the other.

"The bill amends the Civil Rights Act of 1964 stating that the 180-day statute of limitations for filing an equal-pay lawsuit regarding pay discrimination resets with each new discriminatory paycheck. The law was a direct answer to the Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., 550 U.S. 618 (2007), a U.S. Supreme Court decision holding that the statute of limitations for presenting an equal-pay lawsuit begins at the date the pay was agreed upon, not at the date of the most recent paycheck, as a lower court had ruled."

It extends the limits on presenting equal-pay lawsuits. That's it.

Lily worked for Goodyear, Obama works for WallStreet. Never was that more evident then when he signed that credit card bill that had no caps & allowed guns in National Parks, while these very same credit card holding Banks took our taxpayer dollars, interest free, for their bailouts while screwing the consumer. Made the NRA happy too.

[ClarkUSA]

29. Go for it, because your fact-free Counterpunch rhetoric is laughable, as always.

Lily will get a big kick out of it. As I have.

:rofl:

[w4rma]

35. You're very quick to dismiss problems that other people see, ClarkUSA. (nt)

[high density]

28. MTP was the standard useless DC clusterfuck and/or circle-jerk it is every Sunday

David Gregory was playing it from the left, saying the president hasn't done enough to support liberal ideals.

Ed Gillespie later comes on in the program and (surprise) says that Obama is way too far to the left.

I mean really, he's too far left, he's not left enough... What a useless program.

[Cha]

33. Good thing the President is who he is

and can handle those assholes on all sides. Steady focus he is.

[jenmito]

34. I agree...

Gregory managed to have four guests that all were against the current Senate bill. He couldn't even have ONE person defending the bill?! :eyes:

[cornermouse]

37. The first part of the quote that you somehow misplaced...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34490422/ns/meet_the_press/page/3/

"DR. DEAN: I would certainly not vote for this bill if this were the final product. But there are--the House bill is a--quite a good bill. This bill has improved over the last couple of weeks. I would let this thing go to conference committee and let's see if we can fix it some more, because this..."