Check in if you though the Baucus bill was trash and a betrayal but want this to pass

[TheKentuckian]

and explain why. I'm just seeing the Finance committee report with some adjustments along the edges.

[pscot]

1. It's this or nothing.

If this falls we'll lose seats in both houses. It will be deadly.

[Oregone]

2. If this doesn't pass, the Democratic Party will lose power...

and no longer be there to pass compromised and corrupt bills.

[TheKentuckian]

3. Well, that's a rational argument at least.

Better than lying to one's self and others about how this is a good though not perfect bill.

Just say it sucks to the point of maybe making things worse but if we don't pass it then the Confederates strike back.

I can maybe work myself into not letting the shitty become the enemy utterly unacceptable, or whatever but there is no way I can pretend something I despised with the heat of a 1,000 suns is now between a good start and a good bill.

[cliffordu]

4. Bitter, much??

[TheKentuckian]

5. Why shouldn't I be bitter?

I'm being mandated into a predatory monopoly with no choices or price controls for a product that I very likely won't be able to afford to use and will get no further help because there is no more money for it and everyone will have insurance.

Affordability, proper oversight, internal competition, outside competition, and choice all went by the way side. I'm someone who has tried to fight the good fight, I haven't been throwing towels or tantrums, I've never asked for a single fucking pony but I do want to fix a problem that can put a serious dent in all of our quality of life and economic security and all we're getting is a way to cover up guilt for a portion of the millions without insurance and to be fed into a fucking meatgrinder controlled by some of the very worse people in the world.

Fuck if I haven't argued to support compromises of compromises but I never thought the whole thing would be so fucked up that even market based solutions would also be written off as left wing nonsense. Yeah, a Democratic bill that can't put in real regulation and provide some choice is unacceptable. I told you silly bastards that Single Payer was impossible but I was foolish enough to believe that SOMETHING would be possible, a public option open to all was at least at the edge of the possible, that something more constrained like just for the uninsured was PLAUSIBLE, and that actual market based reforms were a lock but we can't even make it to what I'd say is right to center/right reform.

How is this not ridiculous bullshit?!? How is too extreme to have some choices and comprehensive regulation? Come on now, we're leaving them with an anti-trust exemption folks!

A pretty far right winger can ideologically deal with not allowing a monopoly for crying out loud.

THIS FUCKING BILL SUCKS AND IT SUCKS EVEN FROM A FREE MARKET VIEW POINT. THATS BAD.

[cliffordu]

7. Have you read the bill or are you reacting to the talking heads and the

rage here??

How much REAL information do you have??

[TheKentuckian]

13. No one in the world has read this particular incarnation Clifford

except a few aides, insurance lawyers, and the CBO.

All anyone can react to is the bills we already had, what the pols say, and what the talking heads/writers discuss.

What is it that based on your understanding am I off base about? Are there price controls, is there competition, do most people have choices I don't know about, is there some system in place contain costs?

Are we are we not funding this in large part by squeezing health plans which can be expected to lower premiums by shifting costs to the consumer and cutting services?

Ben Nelson did have the anti-trust legislation pulled, correct?

Dude, I want to support this bill and if you've read my posts then you'll know I've been supportive all the way but my problems aren't being addressed but rather evaded or ignored.

I read the Finance bill, I read the HELP summary, I read the House bill summary, and I've tried to stay on this much as I can just like many others but you don't have to talk to me like I'm an ignorant asshole that wants to bitch and whine life away in search of progressive nirvana or whatever.

I put this up to see what is significantly different than Baucus here and why those changes make a bad bill a decent one.

[Oregone]

6. Just realistic

[cliffordu]

8. I think maybe not.

[Oregone]

9. Well, since you are an authority

Ill go sob in my beer

[cliffordu]

10. have you read the bill or are you reacting to the talking heads and

the rage around here?

Your extremely angry postings on the bill have been myriad.

I just want to know at this point what part of the bill SPECIFICALLY you are reacting to.

[Oregone]

11. What part are you specifically defending?

Just curious, because no real final bill exists. Anyone can weave that shit trap. But the entire process should leave nothing but the taste of feces in one's mouth. Good luck cleaning that out.

[cliffordu]

12. I want to know what you are reacting to.

I won't defend any part of it, but my cancer-survivor unemployed, uninsurable wife might get a checkup now and again.

[Oregone]

15. Well, as long as you get yours

The answer to the problem is not mandated, subsidized private insurance (which mostly still remains employer-based). Thats just a whole other problem. What a waste of energy at the end of the day.

[cliffordu]

16. still no specifics.

I thought as much.

[salguine]

14. Nothing at all would be better than this piece of shit bill.