Comments by Dean on MTP....so much spin here.

[madfloridian]

There appear to be efforts around here to bring on an anti-Dean atmosphere. There is a reason that is unfortunate. Not so much that it is criticism of Dean...but that it is an effort to discredit those who question this administration's policies.

There has been a lot of ridicule directed at those of us who were thankful someone was pointing out things in the bill that needed to be known. It appears some changes have been made in the bill even since then...but then who knows for sure.

Dean is not running for anything, probably never will again....so the obvious effort to discredit him from members of the party seems suspicious.

A strong bill, a good bill, should be able to withstand scrutiny of any kind. A strong party that is standing up for us should welcome scrutiny.

The misquotes about what he has said today are unfortunate.

Dean: 'We're Going To Have A 30-Year Battle With The Insurance Industry'

Appearing on Meet The Press, former DNC chairman Howard Dean predicted long-term problems for a health care bill without a public option: "We have committed--in this last week of unseemly scrambling for votes, we have committed to go down a path in this country where private insurance will be the way that we achieve universal health care. That means we're going to have a 30-year battle with the insurance industry every time when we try to control costs and try to get them do things. It is not a coincidence, David Gregory, that insurance company stocks, health insurance company stocks, hit a 52-year high on Friday. So they must know something that the rest of us don't."

More from this morning:

He says that "over the past week" there were some improvements to the bill, but it's "still got a long way to go." But Dean says the current bill allows insurance to get really unaffordable for the elderly. He predicts that the current bill will pit the government against the insurance industry, forever, whenever the govenment wants to control health care costs. He goes on to point out that insurance industry stocks took off last week - and this is the best sign you can possibly have, America, that you are about to get jacked where health care is concerned.

Would Dean stand by his contention to not vote for the Senate bill? Dean says he wouldn't vote for it, no. But, he says the House bill is stronger and a strong bill that he could vote for might emerge from conference committee. He laments the fact that the White House doesn't seem to passionately want a public option. "The elimination of the public option is a real sticking point."

Dean is very substantive, pointing out that what we are likely to do is akin to the system in Switzerland or Holland, but without the strong regulatory hand those countries place on their private insurance companies. Gregory don't want to hear about interesting facts on comparative health care systems! He wants to get Dean's reaction to a single snarky line that Alternate Universe President John McCain said!

TV Sound Off

And he and Wendell Potter had a conference call yesterday

Just got off another blogger conference call, this time with Howard Dean, former CIGNA exec Wendell Potter, and Mike Lux. Dean announced the results of a DFA poll. The Senate cloture vote is scheduled for 7:30 p.m. on Christmas Eve, he said. Dr. Dean opened the call by saying "this bill has always been a giveaway to the insurance industry, but we were willing to compromise" to get the public option.

He recapped all the compromises we made: "We wanted single payer, but that was taken off the table early on. That was a mistake. We had to get to the place where we had health insurance for all Americans." But now, he said, there's no public option, and no Medicare option.

"You're forced to pay money to an insurance company or get fined $750 by your government, while 27% of your money goes to CEOs who are flying around in these private jets," he said.

..."He said the real bad stuff in the Senate bill was
"hidden in the weeds, so you can’t find it."

Dr. Dean brushed aside the "Get a bill, any bill" mentality in Washington. "Any legislation passed will have a huge impact on American healthcare. If they can’t fix it, it shouldn’t pass."

Wendell Potter, former CIGNA executive and reform activist, said the insurance industry got "every single thing they wanted" in the Senate bill.

I am thankful he pointed out parts of the bill we did not know about.

I know the bill will pass now. As he said: "in this last week of unseemly scrambling for votes"....and indeed it has been that way....we have committed our country to a path dominated by private insurers.

And probably little regulation.

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. The Rahmbots have been spinning this shit all week long

When the Angry Dwarf gives the order to bash Dean, they jump.

[dbonds]

5. Spinning hard 24 hours a day

There are some I don't know when they sleep.

[Ozymanithrax]

2. I did not see it as an "unseemly scrambling for votes"

It required 60 votes to beat a filibuster. They did what they had to do to get a health care reform bill. Without those 60 votes, Republicans and Health Insurance companies would get what they want, no change at all. With no change 50+ million people continue to die at a rate of 45,000 a year because they have no health insurance.

Not looking for those votes would have been more than unseemly, it would have been an abject surrender to the health care companies and an abandonment of Americans in need.

[madfloridian]

4. They sold out women and paid hundreds of millions to select senators.

That's a little unseemly to me.

[Ozymanithrax]

10. Which Senators were paid hundres of millions of dollars?

I know about abortion provision. Such provisions appear in eveyr piece of legisltaion since the Hyde ammendment.

But I would like to konw which Senators took bribes.

[madfloridian]

12. Nelson, Sanders, Landrieu are 3 I know.

Nelson:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7275670

"Looks like its a done deal. Ben Nelson has agreed to a deal on restricting abortion access for women, and a deal whereby the feds cover medicaid spending in his state in perpetuity.

The other maybe-kinda-sorta-not-really holdout was our own Bernie Sanders, who was b(r)ought into the deal for the inclusion of a Patrick Leahy-promoted provision to increase Vermont's medicaid payments by a cool $250 million over the next six years. Breaks out, if divided evenly, to about $42 million a year. Given the looming budget hole, which could be $90 to $110 million, that's a big, big boost"

I think Landrieu was 300 million.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. Oh, you meant pork barrel spending...

Wow, nothing like that has ever happened before.

So these people held out to get improvements on health care for their constituents. Wow, what a sellout. It seems to me that I heard a report on Countdown that Limbaugh was complaining about Landrieu and others getting extra money for health care in their states. I've seen picutures of tea party signs complaining about that.

Screw Limbaugh and the conservative Republicans opposing health care. Screw the Tea party, or better yeat, Tea bag the tea party and Limbaugh.

Pass the bill. Bring help to the 50+ million who are dying at a rate of 45,000 a year because they have no health care.

[freddie mertz]

18. They were bribes, basically.

System corrupt.

Film at 11.

[Ozymanithrax]

39. Yes, except that the money doesn't directly enrich the Senators.

As I said, the I've herd this stuff from the right. I have nothing good to say about them or their tactics.

[depakid]

14. "They did what they had to do to get a health care reform bill." -That's a lie

They had to pursue reconciliation- instead, they pandered to the corrupt corporate right, appeased several little pissants that they could have made irrelevant, left everyone with ineffective public policy and set the stage for repeat performances on every piece of legislation coming down the line.

[burning rain]

35. It takes 60 votes because they choose to make 60 the threshold for cloture.

They could change the rules if they like, but, again, choose not to do so. Thus they have made the decision that only moderate pap can come out of the Senate, and the worst, most conservative members of the Senate Democratic caucus will always decide the key aspects of bills. They may as well name the Senate healthcare bill after Lieberman.

[Blasphemer]

3. Thanks for posting. I was getting tired of the spin-meisters.. nt

[ClarkUSA]

6. Funny how Dean was called a "sellout" when he supported HCR by the same folks who laud him now.

FACT: Dean has backed off his call to "Kill the Bill" last week in his MTP appearance today.

After setting off a political firestorm last week for telling legislators to kill the Senate health-care bill, progressive leader Howard Dean walked back his opposition this morning on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” Instead of advising Congress to vote against the bill for not containing the public option, as he stridently declared on Thursday, Dean said the Senate bill had actually “improved” over the past few weeks...

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/12/20/howard-dean-walks-it-back.aspx

FACT: He also praised Pres. Obama's hard work at trying to get HCR passed on MTP.

[jenmito]

17. K&Ring this post.

:fistbump:

[ClarkUSA]

30. Ain't it the truth, though?

:fistbump:

[girl_interrupted]

19. Dean hasn't backed off anything

He knows the writing is on the wall. Obama has the votes he needs to get this travesty passed. Nelson is out there bragging how he got rid of the public option. It's a done deal. Welcome to Reality. The only thing that can be done now is to try and fix it, see if some of the House provisions can be added. That's what Dean and lot of people can only hope for now.

But I still can't get over the gall of Obama & Rahm bashing a guy like Dean who has actually accomplished something when it came to healthcare reform. It turns my stomach. It's either their way or the highway. Bunch of backstabbers.

[ClarkUSA]

29. Last week, he wanted to "Kill the Bill" that's in the Senate. Now he wants to fix it in conference.

Sure he has. I respect the man but I also can acknowledge his flip-flop. Of course, he supported HCR for months before
his "Kill the Bill" statement, so really, he only changed his mind briefly last week before supporting HCR again.

[coti]

37. "...before supporting HCR again." Your facts are really twisted.

What he said a few days ago was that he wanted to kill the current version of the bill, go back to the House and start the reconciliation process.

He still maintains that he would vote against this bill as it stands- is that what you mean by "supporting HCR?" Because he has the same position now as he did then- basically, either make the bill MUCH better, or this is a step backward and it should be voted down. Is that "supporting HCR again"?

[ClarkUSA]

42. No, I am stating the facts. Perhaps you're interpreting what I said in a manner I did not intend.

<<What he said a few days ago was that he wanted to kill the current version of the bill, go back to the House and start the reconciliation process.>>

He wanted to "Kill the Bill" last week -- the Senate bill, that is -- and now he wants the Senate bill to pass the vote and then move
into conference. Those are two completely opposite positions to take inside of a week. Previously, Dean supported HCR by arguing
its merits and wanting the Senate bill to pass and move into conference where language could be changed.

<<He still maintains that he would vote against this bill as it stands- is that what you mean by "supporting HCR?">>

On MTP, he also said alot of good things have been put into the Senate bill in the past few weeks. He has reverted back to the position he had before last week's "Kill the Bill" statement, wherein he supports getting the Senate bill into a vote and then move into conference.

<<Because he has the same position now as he did then- basically, either make the bill MUCH better, or this is a step backward and it should be voted down. Is that "supporting HCR again"?>>

You're overstating his previous position. As I said previously, he has reverted back to the position he had before last week's "Kill the Bill" statement, wherein he supports getting the Senate bill into a vote and then move into conference.

The WH has reached out to Dean. He has confirmed to Newsweek that he and David Axelrod have talking with each other and has also praised Pres. Obama's hard work at trying to pass HCR.

All's well that ends well.

[Forkboy]

28. And it's funny to see some who hated him last week liking him now.

[Number23]

34. Wow! Thanks for that link, Clark.

[cornermouse]

38. (sigh) Actual transcript of MTP

in which Dean specifically refers to one week and then later two weeks but that he would not vote for this bill if this was the final product; the compromise has been too much; that a bipartisan bill is not possible; in which he says Obama has a terrific record on the environment and said that Obama had tried but didn't, imo, "praise" him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34490422/ns/meet_the_press/page/3/

[BzaDem]

7. "And probably little regulation"

This bill clearly increase regulation (ban on discrimination on pre-existing conditions and gender, limiting of age band ratios, 85/80 medical loss ratio, no lifetime or annual caps as stated in the manager's amendment, MANDATORY benefits and actuarial values for all plans in the exchange, etc.)

Some people seem to think that none of these regulations will matter, or will not be enforced, etc. etc. My question is: How do you increase regulations without passing a bill that increases regulations? Obviously you need to pass a bill that increases regulations (this bill). You can't add to regulations by not passing a bill that increases regulations.

[madfloridian]

8. More from the transcript today:

I have not watched the interview yet, but this transcript certainly does not lend credibility to some of the Dean sold out stuff going on here.

When you have even the VP writing op eds against you...you tend to sound more cautious. They are going to make sure he does not criticize the administration again. They think.

MR. GREGORY: What needs to be fixed specifically?

DR. DEAN: Well, first of all, the cost controls need to apply to hospitals. Second of all, we really do need some kind of a public option. At least allow the states to have a public option, a real public option, because they--you know, some senators have said, "Well, there's a public option to the bill." Well, that's not really true. The public option in this bill is allowing the federal government to, to negotiate with private insurance companies. That's not a public option.

MR. GREGORY: But, Governor, do you really expect the White House to fight for any form of a public option at this stage of the game?

DR. DEAN: Well, obviously we've been very disappointed by, by that. We, we don't think that there has been much fight in the White House for that. Another big piece that needs to be fixed is we--I don't think we ought to be able to charge older people three times as much as you charge younger people. The House has twice as much, that's still too much. So there's a lot of things that need to be fixed. But if they are fixed, you aim--may actually get the foundation of a bill coming out of the House. If most of the House provisions survive, then we could have a bill that we could work with. But this elimination of the public option is a real sticking point, because that, in fact, is how you really save money and bend the curve in expenses.

MR. GREGORY: But I just want to be clear. So your advice, former chairman of the party, to House and Senate members who come to the point of a final bill, if it does not have a public option, your advice would be vote no.

DR. DEAN: I think it's got to have a public option, at least some of this--some--at least allow some of the states. Now, there are two countries that have done this without a public option, Switzerland and the Netherlands, but they treat insurance companies as public utilities. That's what we would have to do. And I don't have an objection to that. The--my, my concern about the public option is not ideological. But I just think a 30-year fight with the insurance industries over every little detail about how they're going to control costs is something that, judging by this past week, when the insurance companies...

MR. GREGORY: Right.

DR. DEAN: ...have essentially wrote the bill, is not likely to happen.

Meet the Press transcript

To attack a private citizen who critiques the policies of this administration is wrong. Disagree, fine. But the mocking and the ridicule are over the top.

[Dinger]

9. K & R

[BklnDem75]

11. 'hit a 52-year high on Friday'

Can anyone confirm this?

[BklnDem75]

22. Anyone? I'm genuinely interested. nt

[madfloridian]

24. I did a search and found both 52 week and 52 year.

and nothing clarified.

Apparently they went up quite a bit.

I did not analyze the whole MTP interview word by word.

[BklnDem75]

33. Honestly, I think he misspoke

None of the major health insurance companies are close to touching their high. Unless he's referring to a no name upstart company, I'm pretty positive he meant to say 52 week high.

[angee_is_mad]

13. yep, easier to discredit President Obama

and have posts and polls about primarying with dean.

I understand.

[girl_interrupted]

20. yeah poor Obama

Poor soul. How dare anyone criticize. Has to be racism. The "whites" that voted for him in November, just woke up & realized he's black....so now they hate him.

I'm sorry but with Obama bowing to Banks and their Credit Cards, Home Foreclosures, no real Regulatory Reforms, And the NRA, by allowing concealed weapons in National Parks via a Credit Card Bill, Big Pharma, & Insurance companies, the escalation in Afghanistan, then kissing Joe Lieberman's ass and calling Dean "irrelevant" just makes me sick. I'm sure Obama won't have any problem paying mandated insurance premiums..cause guess what? He gets his insurance, free.


They are all just out to get him for no reason. Poor soul.

Yawn.

[madfloridian]

21. I don't do that.

I know they will get the bill through.

I don't try to discredit Obama, but I do question the direction we are going.

The ridicule toward those who don't toe the line is hurting all of us.

[highplainsdem]

16. K&R. Thanks for clarifying this!

[AVID]

23. its not anti-dean...it's anti DEAN WORSHIP. Get away from DU for a while. its refreshing

and more reality based

[madfloridian]

25. It's an effort to make those who question Obama look bad.

It's getting pretty over the top here at DU now.

I know the bill will pass, but hell they even sent out the VP to put us all in our places, nicely.

But at times it was not so nice.

[ClarkUSA]

31. lol! You're trying to make those who question those who question Obama look bad.

I agree with Howard Dean when he said on MTP this morning that he wanted the Senate bill to go to conference so language can be fixed:

I would let this bill go to conference committee and see if we can fix this bill more… Let's see what they add to this bill and make it work.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/12/20/howard-dean-walks-it-back.aspx

Dean also "said the Senate bill had actually “improved” over the past few weeks..." Go figure. Also:

"After setting off a political firestorm last week for telling legislators to kill the Senate health-care bill, progressive leader Howard Dean walked back his opposition this morning on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” Instead of advising Congress to vote against the bill for not containing the public option, as he stridently declared on Thursday, Dean said the Senate bill had actually “improved” over the past few weeks... Dean’s comments signaled a significant about-face from his call to “kill the bill” last week, which created a sizable split within the progressive movement. Liberal legislators like Senator Jay Rockefeller slammed Dean’s opposition for being “nonsense” and “irresponsible,” and labor leader Andy Stern pointedly distanced himself from Dean’s remarks. "

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/12/20/howard-dean-walks-it-back.aspx

[madfloridian]

26. There's a danger in ridicule and in trying to humiliate and discredit...

those of us who worked so hard in 2008.

Making fun of those who honestly believed in change is not a good thing.

[ClarkUSA]

32. No one is doing that. The WH has been reaching out so Dean and Axelrod have been talking all week.

".... the White House made a serious effort to reach out to the famously tempestuous former governor... Dean had confirmed
that he and Axelrod had “actually talked back and forth throughout the week,” doubtlessly in the aftermath of his controversial
op-ed. But, more than anything else, it was Ben Nelson’s announcement yesterday that he would support the health-care bill
that likely changed Dean’s political calculus. With Nelson on board, the Democrats now have the 60 votes they need to pass
the Senate bill, effectively rendering Dean’s opposition to the legislation irrelevant."

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/12/20/howard-dean-walks-it-back.aspx

Hopefully, those who had called him a sellout for supporting HCR for months before he wanted to "Kill the Bill" last week won't
be going back to calling him a "sellout" again now that he is working with the White House and supports the Senate bill again
enough to want it to pass and go into conference.

[madfloridian]

27. And there's a danger in selling out core constituencies...

like women. For years they have been doing it, but now it is getting more attention called to it.

Not wise.

Even those of us who try to post sensibly here are getting ridiculed and attacked.

Something is wrong with that picture.

[jefferson_dem]

36. Let it go.

Dean has.

[madfloridian]

40. That it is right to "let it go". I have heard that too often since 2000

[madfloridian]

41. Hissyspit has the video up in the DU video section.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x415619