Be prepared, progressives! Here comes Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones all

[CTyankee]

over again, followed by monica-on-the-rope-line footage over and over again...

I'm just sayin...better have your talking points shined up because you KNOW this stuff is gonna come at us from Fox and Friends...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. They Impeached Clinton For It, Didn't They

And Clinton never said God asked him to run for president.

[CTyankee]

2. well, they'll say Dems have a double standard.

It's kind of like a reverse IOKIYAR...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Well

"A foolish consistently is the hoggoblin of a small mind."

[CTyankee]

5. that might come across as weak, tho...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. It Is Weak

I encourage the Republicans to nominate Cain and let the people decide.

[CTyankee]

8. yep. just call their effin bluff...good idea...I'm using it!

[Lint Head]

4. Will Cain be Able to keep his marriage alive?

[Zen Democrat]

7. These stories aren't coming from Democrats. They are coming from Republicans.

And the woman who has come forward is a conservative Republican. Hardly comparable.

Besides, in Clinton's case, the woman came on to HIM and he stupidly didn't walk away. And Genifer Flowers had a 12-year affair with him. That's not sexual harassment or assault.

[CTyankee]

9. Yeah, I know. But they'll use it anyway just for shits and giggles...ya know...

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. Oddly enough, I don't think the existence of these claims will be what takes Herman out.

I think for the older, whiter voting bloc who are the GOP's strongest primary voters, who haven't quite caught up to this century and the whole black male/white female thing, this may be Herman's biggest problem, despite what they tell the pollsters.

It's definitely going to be interesting to watch as these ladies' identities are leaked, which they most certainly will be, and how they react. Like I said, we may not see it in public, but behind the scenes, I can imagine the other campaigns (Rick Perry) trying to make hay out of the fact that Herman's unwitting victims are white women. Remember, they can't be overt about it, but a nice whisper campaign wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. ;)

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

11. I've heard people like Thom Hartmann say that Rick Perry will have an even more explosive scandal

go public, if Cain drops out and Perry gets more popular. What that story might involve, I don't know. Hartmann refused to elaborate on his show.

[karynnj]

12. Already here

I was driving back from an errand and put on RW talk radio - and Sean Hannity was listing the whole Pantheon of women that ever accused Bill Clinton of being inappropriate - Flowers, Jones, Janita Broderick, Katherine Wiley etc Then speaking of how the women's organizations and the media didn't care about them.

In fact, the media DID cover Flowers, the only one out there in 1992 - extensively. It was likely ONLY because it was in the past and Hillary on 60 minutes stood with him and there was the strong implication that all this was in the past - they worked on it and it was no longer a problem.

Not to mention, that was a consensual affair - still wrong - but NOTHING like these accounts of uninvited attention - and in this case assault. The Jones allegation was on the same level, but it came up only after he was President and there were reasons to doubt it - especially as it was one isolated incident.

But all except Broderick, which was spoken of only by RW trolls, ALL of these allegations got huge coverage. It likely is true that you can say that the lies on Flowers (and on whether he was drafted) should have made Democrats more leery in nominating him. He was, for the most part, a media favorite. )

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Even At It's Worst The Jones Allegation Was Sexual Harassment Not SexualAssault

There was no touching and pushing of heads into laps.

[CTyankee]

16. well, there's the woman that Clinton supposedly bit on the lip...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Who Waited Fifteen Years To Tell Her Story

Sharon Bialek told her story immediately to two people who have signed affidavits attesting to that fact under the threat of perjury.

[CTyankee]

20. good point!

[former9thward]

22. Jones was more than an allegation.

He paid her 850k. You don't pay someone that type of money because of an "allegation".

[stevenleser]

23. Sure you do. Happens all the time. People are paid money to go away for all kinds of suits...

doesnt mean it wasnt true in her case, but payoffs even for things that didnt happen occur all the time.

[former9thward]

27. If you were familar with this type of suit you would know

that you pay five figures to make these type of suits "go away". When you get into six figures it means that a jury may well rule against you.

[karynnj]

25. I should have written that better - I was referring to the time period before 1996

when it could have been a bigger issue than it was had there been any corroboration. I do know at least one person, who voted for Clinton in 1992, voted against him because he believed - given his lying on Flowers that there was a real likelihood that he was guilty.

If I remember correctly, Clinton paid after the impeachment proceedings before the end of his term. At that point, he still raised an Arkansas trial - he paid and he had his law license suspended. Some might argue that he didn't want more humiliation like he faced during the impeachment proceedings. I don't think Clinton ever admitted there was truth to it.

I think the Democratic party would likely be in a better place now had the primary voters chosen one of the other 1992 nominees.

[former9thward]

29. I agree with you about 1992.

I think the best candidate would have been Mario Cuomo who decided not to run because he thought Bush I was unbeatable.

[karynnj]

31. True - I was really hoping he would run, but then liked Tsongus

One thing in 2004 that always irked me is that Begala and Carville kept referring to Kerry as ABB, where that had always been primary language. (Ie right now the Republican conservatives want ABR) It was galling as Clinton was nearly my last preference - but when he got the nomination, I supported him. For the 2 biggest tv Democrats to have dragged their feet publicly in 2004 was extremely hurtful as I didn't see anyone do that to their candidate.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

13. Genifer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky? NO!! But Paula Jones? YES.

Paula was the alleged victim of sexual harassment. It was consensual with Genifer and Monica.

[CTyankee]

15. Yes, you are right and I realize that. But they'll do the whole monty for us anyway...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Even At It's Worst Clinton Made A Ham Handed Pass At Paula Jones

He didn't sexually assault her.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

18. You and I both know that it doesn't matter. It's the same in the eyes of the Repukes/wingnuts

in the pursuit to achieve equivalency.

[karynnj]

26. I don't see a huge difference - if the Jones allegation was true

from the accounts, Clinton exposed himself to Paula Jones. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Jones) In addition, he is said to have sexually assaulted Kathleen Wiley.

I think the best thing is to be consistent and say that BOTH Cain and Clinton if the worse allegations are true are not people of good character - even if people on each of their sides, see them as charming, charismatic people. (This not mean that Clinton was not capable and smart - he was, but these actions are pretty bad.)

[Maccagirl]

21. Was Hannity in a coma for the entire year of 1998?

You literally couldn't pick up a paper, watch TV or listen to the radio without the subject of l'affaire Lewinsky being discussed 24/7. I remember the "left" (especially women) wanting Hillary to leave Bill-as if ait was anyone's business but their own. As for Flowers-what about all the tabloid stories and interviews?

[tledford]

28. Hannity has been in a coma all his life. eom

[JoePhilly]

24. What will they be accusing Obama of?

[CTyankee]

30. Nothing. They just will be picking on Dems cuz of Clinton...they can't let that go!

It's their "thing."

[Zoeisright]

32. So? If repukes bring it up, to be consistent, tell them that Cain

should be brought up on charges immediately.

Otherwise, they're fucking hypocrites.

But we already knew that.

[mojowork_n]

33. That doesn't tell us much about Herman Cain, does it?

He and Bill Clinton are so completely dissimilar in so many other ways.

This is the more apt comparison:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/07/herman-cain-and-il-duce/

Worth the time to read. It's good that some people remember history,
and resurrect that experience occasionally, for those of us in
the present.

[BlueMTexpat]

34. Excellent piece! Thanks for posting. nt