Howard Dean: "if the Republicans hate it so much, there must be some good in it."

[DCBob]

Dean said this just a few moments ago on the Rachel Maddow show. Dean has basically caved and is now supporting the bill. He is not totally thrilled with it but no more "kill-the-bill" non-sense.

[scheming daemons]

1. Hmmm... wonder where all "rec if you're with Howard Dean" posts are now?

...

[krawhitham]

41. +1

[mcablue]

58. Dean never said there was "nothing good" in the bill. He allegedly said tonight there is "some good"

...in it. And we don't know if the OP is misrepresenting what Dean said. we don't have a link or transcript to Dean's words until tomorrow. No context either. Unrecommended for the lack of links, confirmation or context.

[mzmolly]

2. I don' think he 'caved' I think he's

being pragmatic, as always.

[DCBob]

10. Well he wasn't being "pragmatic" at all just a few days ago..

So he changed his mind. Does that sound better?

[mzmolly]

18. He changed his mind after the bill changed. So yeah,

that is better.

[DCBob]

28. Yes, your are right. Dean actually made that same claim but..

the changes that were made were not the ones he was demanding just a few days ago. But heck, I am just ahppy we can all get along now. :)

[mzmolly]

30. He was concerned about cost controls. The public option was one way

to obtain this. However, we went another route. I hope we CAN all get along now? :hi:

[madfloridian]

39. I have two videos posted in this thread that say you are wrong.

But it does no good to argue if anyone questions this administration.

[Cha]

12. Yeah, as a former Deaniac..actually I still

like all the pols who I've supported in the past.. I agree, mzmolly.

[mzmolly]

It's amazing

that so few appear to understand progressive leadership and what it's about in the end. UGH. :hi:

[rurallib]

3. I think the repugs are just doing this for show now.

It is a win-win-win for them. Plus this tough anti-Obama talk always plays well in their circles.

[DCBob]

17. No doubt. They are playing this thing for all its worth..

Its all about politics now for them. They could care less about real healtcare reform.. scumbags.

[Maraya1969]

52. And a lot of them are on here un'rec-ing every OP that is positive about the President or Democrats.

[bevoette]

4. reality trumps ideology. always. (nm)

[babylonsister]

5. Funny, Barbara Boxer said basically the same thing, and she's

a pariah now. Go figure.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7301751

[glitch]

16. Hardly a pariah, just made a disappointing move. As has Dean. Some of us can see beyond B/W

Hero/Pariah. What a weird world the binary inhabit.

[babylonsister]

26. What is wrong with what she said? I've heard that said often:

if no one is totally happy, something is being done right. And last I heard, we are all entitled to our opinions without being made into a pariah. We used to discuss things around here; not anymore.

And the level of hate I'm seeing for this President after 8 years of that one is mind-boggling to me.

[glitch]

35. Right, haters. Not policy dissenters, haters. Lover or haters of persons,. not statments or policies

Don't you get how simplistic that is? Do you really want to reduce our complex world to such simple terms?

And I am the one saying Boxer and Dean aren't pariahs simply because they made statements we disagree with. You are the one labeling them pariahs because they are being disagreed with.

[mzmolly]

37. Agreed!

It's unbelievable, and the rec/unrec feature is showing our collective cynicism here.

[mzmolly]

34. Of course. Black is white, progressive heros "cave"

and are suddenly craven, cowering in fear, and trying to please the White House at all cost. It's nuts.

[burning rain]

46. Not a pariah with me. I quite like her.

But on Countdown today she did use the fatuous talking point that the health care bill, like Social Security and Medicare, was a good start and would be improved in the future. If Social Security and Medicare were informed by the same principles as the Senate health care bill, they'd require people to invest for their retirement on Wall Street, and buy private health insurance, respectively. They would not be private, not public institutions. Today's Washington Democrats are unworthy of the legacy of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson. They should probably rename the Democratic Party "the Moderate Republican Party" if they're going to keep this up.

[sandnsea]

6. He remembers he proposed subsidized insurance n/t

[Skittles]

7. WRONG

they hate EVERYHING - they are the party of NO IDEAS

[girl gone mad]

8. There is some good in it, no question about that.

It's just that the bad outweighs the good by such an extreme measure, that it's difficult to celebrate this.

[Oregone]

9. They (and insurers) came up with the fucking thing.

They hate it because its a Democratic "win".

Sorry Howard...again and again youve screwed the pooch shilling for this crap.

[dkf]

11. Oh they hate it because Obama wants it and it doesn't involve killing people with guns and bombs

This is bad though. He is falling into the trap of supporting political victory over the good of the public.

[DCBob]

36. LOL! So true about the "guns and bombs"..

But this isn't "bad". Its a big first step for the "good of the public" and Dean knows it.

[SnoopDog]

13. That's a bull-ony throw away line...

republicans don't want any Democratic Legislation to pass...period....

[Betsy Ross]

14. I have to say this is a little reassuring

There is some good and we can keep fighting for more. I haven't heard the word reconciliation this week. We still have a path to a public option and lower-age Medicare buy-in. We need to keep the pressure on.

[madfloridian]

15. Video from today with Schieffer. Make your own decision.

Dean to Schieffer on CBS today: Dems need to toughen up.

Kind of sad we put down our strongest voices and urge caving in.

[Armstead]

20. Yes We Can.....Cave In

[DCBob]

21. Dean brought this on himself.. He should not have gone public with such a negative tone..

He f'ked up and he knows it. Watch the Maddow replay. He is one whooped puppy.

[madfloridian]

33. Well, then if he is a "whooped puppy"...then ain't we happy and cheery.

I mean how dare he point out the harmful things in the bill.

How dare he cross the party leaders.

:shrug:

[DCBob]

40. There is a huge difference in "pointing out harmful things" and demanding to "kill the bill"..

There are better ways to do what Dean was trying to do.

[madfloridian]

43. You are misquoting again.

But that is your problem.

[DCBob]

47. Are we talking about the same "Howard Dean"?

He sure sounded like he wanted to kill the bill a few days ago.

[mzmolly]

72. Where is the Maddow replay DCB?

Thanks in advance. :hi:

[glitch]

25. Sad, it's pathetic. I truly don't think they can see other than black or white.

And so can't imagine the incredible detail in reality. It's all about soundbites and gotcha, even if the gotcha misses by a mile.

Truly bizarre.

[Better Today]

19. That's the lamest justification I've heard to date. They have made it clear

even if the bill was exactly what they claimed to have wanted, they'd move the goalposts and not vote for it. They could very well love the bill and we'd never know it.

Howard Dean, I love ya' man, was really wound up about your run and pissed that you couldn't be allowed to celebrate loudly and excitedly, but you're really being stupid to change your mind if this is the reason why you're changing your mind.

[madfloridian]

24. Watch the spin. Make sure the truth is being told.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5448

[Better Today]

29. Hence the "if" in my assesment.

[DCBob]

32. Spin? I think I quoted Dean word for word..

Check the replay to verify if you are in doubt.

[madfloridian]

38. I will do that.

[DCBob]

42. Maybe someone can get the vid and post it..

I think it would good for all of us to see it.

[madfloridian]

45. Have you watched the one I posted that has had untruths told here?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5448

This GDP forum told untruths about the interview. Over and over. I was attacked so was anyone who defended.

It's a shame, really.

This gotcha stuff.

[DCBob]

49. No i have not but this interview just happened so its latest and greatest..

Take a look at the replay later tonight and judge for yourself. In my view Dean is now on board with some reservations.

[Better Today]

70. Word for word, but out of context and entirely lacking based on the actual

ENTIRE interview. I just now had an opportunity to watch Rachel, you've entirely misrepresented Howard Dean.

[eridani]

22. Except that they don't hate it. They don't give a shit about its contents.

All they care is that Obama is for it. Too bad the Panglossian Dems operate on the same logic.

[dkf]

23. I wonder what Rahm threatened him with?

He looked tired on countdown. His heart isn't in it anymore. So sad.

[Cha]

64. You don't think much of Dean, do you?

Dean's his own boss..he does his own thinking.

[madfloridian]

27. No one criticizes Obama and survives WH and Media wrath...

and the wrath of the forums.

We will get the bill we deserve.

I am thankful Dean has spoken out. He has already lost place in party leadership, he can be honest while the others spin.

[ZombieHorde]

31. Bad logic. If one wishes to discuss the merits of the bill, then specifically name the merits.

Such as the removal of annual/life time benefit limits.

[DCBob]

51. He did also mention there were some changes that also affected his position..

Can remember exactly what those changes were. I will have to watch the replay again to get the details.

[ZombieHorde]

65. Good, perhaps the Republican bit was a joke. nt

[ellie]

44. Oh no

[madfloridian]

48. If he equated the left and right then he is wrong like Boxer.

If he just said the right hates it, then I have no gripe with that.

[Laelth]

50. Sorry to see Dean cave.

The only thing the Republicans hate about this bill is that Democrats are for it. Period.

It's still worse than doing nothing.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[madfloridian]

53. Don't let them do this. I have posted two videos.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5448

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5446

There is no caving in either.

This board was filled with Dean caving, but he did not. Check the first video first. He is fighting.

I really don't care anymore.

Anyone who speaks up is a dead duck in this party now. And at this forum.

The WH attacked him even with the VP, and he still is criticizing the bill.

Yesterday people made stuff up. If he said the left and the right like Boxer did, he is wrong. But if he said the right I can see that.

This forum is going to destroy him just as they tried to do in 2003.

[DCBob]

54. You seem a bit desperate dude.. Chill out. Dean is just facing up to political reality..

you need too also.

[madfloridian]

59. I am not a dude.

[DCBob]

62. Sorry.

No offense intended.

[Laelth]

55. Thanks for the real evidence and, as usual, for advocating for the truth.

You are a treasure.

:toast:

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[madfloridian]

56. Well, people keep falling for it. He has not caved.

He has changed his rhetoric as he thinks the bill has changed.

I may not agree, but it is not what they are saying.

[DCBob]

61. What real evidence?

Check the video posted below.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#34553032

[Sparky 1]

74. Thank you! I wanted Dean for President.

[jefferson_dem]

69. Dead-ender, huh?

n/t

[mcablue]

57. Can you provide context? that's what I hate about people quoting TV shows

No context. No transcripts until a day later when the OP runs away, and no links. One doesn't know if their quote is real or just a skewed paraphrase.

[DCBob]

60. Here's the link to the video...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show#34553032

[madfloridian]

63. I just watched the video.

Dean did not, like Durbin and Boxer did, equate the left with the right. He is accepting that the bill is going through with some changes.

He is disappointed, but he sort of shrugged that if the right hates it so much there must be some good in it.

My mind is boggled.

Dean does not support the bill...he is accepting grudgingly that it will pass. He says there is a battle coming down the road with the insurance companies.

Do any of you who are happy that he is called a "whooped puppy" think it is okay that our party is selling us out to the insurance lobby?

I just don't get how he became the boogie man when he has been warning us.

Now we are getting it, he accepts grudgingly, and gets ridiculed here for it.

What is happening to this party?

[ProSense]

67. He said the Nelson amendment was significant and the Senate exchanges are better than the House. n/t

[Unvanguard]

66. That is my sentiment exactly. :) n/t

[jefferson_dem]

68. Good. I'm very proud of Dr. Dean.

:applause:

[Clio the Leo]

71. Thank you Howard for coming back home!!!!

I MISSED YOU!!!!!!

It seemed like a pretty obvious point a week ago, but I'm weird I guess.

[babylonsister]

73. ...

:rofl:

You do amuse me! :thumbsup:

[Tippy]

75. I really wouldn't call it a cave in...

Just a minor change in direction...He has the ability to look at the bigger picture..