Those who blame the left: can you show how the left has influenced this legislation AT ALL

[Lerkfish]

in any direction?

When you don't allow someone at the table and then blame them for the shitty food, something is wrong in your logic circuits.


Yes, people COMPLAINED about the left, but did they CHANGE ANYTHING? what influence, if any, did the left demonstrate?

I submit, instead, the left was, again, marginalized and ridiculed and frozen out of the process politicallly.

The "centrists" got the exact bill they wanted to get. The ONLY people obstructing it in any real sense were the blue dog democrats.

Unless you can prove me wrong.

[Selatius]

1. I don't see how the left can be blamed. The Senate bill PASSED...WITHOUT the Public Option.

There isn't even a Medicare buy-in with the Senate bill.

And, ALL the senators who are even considered LIBERAL voted for this junk bill because there was no other alternative given to them.

All threats to stop or kill the bill ended up as nothing, just more cheap words that carry no weight.

For the record: I don't support the bill in its current form, and the few good bits in there are outweighed by the monumental cost it will inflict on the economy in the form of high costs for middle class families.

[phleshdef]

2. How about the billions added to the bill by Bernie Sanders for more community health clinics?

[Donnachaidh]

13. how about the billions of GUARANTEED profits to the insurance companies that are the PROBLEM?

Bet that those numbers will make Bernie's gift seem like chump change.

[daa]

18. Wow so after the seniors get their Medicare cuts they

can go down to the community clinic.

[juno jones]

56. And not get the full panopoly of services that they used to get.

Pain relief for that spine you cracked 20 years ago which never healed and is still visible on your x-rays! No way, we don't do that poor people are junkies dontcha know, here's an aspirin and a number for a specialist who doesn't take our sliding scale...Tests for x,y,z well we don't cover those, but we will refer you to a specialist who will charge you full boat to do 'em. Minor Emergencies, go to ER, we're booked six months out even tho it would be cheaper for us to treat minor complaints than an ER. :shrug:

[phleshdef]

60. Yea the full panopoly that provides 82 year old women with yearly prostate exams.

[juno jones]

64. If men get bi-annual pap smears on the same insurance, I'd say it

A)cancelled itself out.

B) Is unlikely to be abused, unlike the non-guarantee of those services.

Besides, reality is inhabited in small numbers by the genetically different. Who is to say that a woman who is for all intents and purposes a woman DOESN'T have a prostate somehwere due to accidents of birth, surgery and personal choice?

[phleshdef]

58. Seniors aren't getting any medicare cuts. This claim has been well disputed and discredited.

[ipaint]

59. To help people who can't afford a financially punishing mandate,

their portion of the new health insurance tax, he and his colleagues are voting into law.

[Armstead]

3. The left forced us to pass a bill drawn up by insurance industry senators Nelson and Lieberman

Oh wait.....nevermind

[NJmaverick]

4. Everyone was allowed at the table, you were just not allowed to hog the potatoes.

[Armstead]

6. Go back and read the news reports at the time

From the very beginning Max Baucus -- one of the Insurance Industry Senators -- refused to even let proponents of a single-payer system speak at the preliminary hearing to "generate opinions."

That was just the start of the freeze out.

[NJmaverick]

12. I am going to go back to the summer when Congress held the town hall meetings

I don't think there is a better way to get everyone to the table than that.

[Donnachaidh]

15. you would remember that -- the insurance industry sent RINGERS to those meetings

to shout down any form of discussion.

So which ones did your employer send you to? Did they reimburse your traveling costs?

[NJmaverick]

20. .

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raineyb]

54. When there's no actual argument the stupid stolen pictures arrive. n/t

[T Wolf]

8. Your constant and consistent support for the GOP wing of the Democratic party is getting tiresome.

Libs were not even in the same room, not even at the childrens' table.

Hogging the potatoes? Bullshit. We did not even get to see what was on the plate.

[NJmaverick]

10. LOL! I am so sorry that I am annoying you with my pro Democratic comments on

DU. :rofl: oh who am I kidding, I am not sorry and I am going to keep on doing it!:dem:

[Donnachaidh]

16. Yup -- those pay for posts sure are adding up for you, aren't they?

Corporate shills on DU. And proud of it too :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

22. .

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

38. Yeah it's perfectly normal to have one traitorous scum ex-democrat

control the entire process. That's NEO-liberalism at it's finest, compromise all progressive policy on the path the the middle-right, and get the industry to write the difficult bills! Hey this legislating stuff is easy when you let the industry write their own laws!

[niceypoo]

23. Right wing Democrats were allowed to control the process via blackmail

The Senate bill is far to the right of the Baucus bill. The Baucus bill was too right wing but was going to be 'fixed in the senate.'

Boot licking never accomplish anything.

[NJmaverick]

30. Your comments indicate a poor understand of what was accomplished in the bill

[niceypoo]

33. You are ignoring the premise of my post

Mindless cheerleading of a bad bill assures that it stays bad.

[NJmaverick]

34. better than acting like a spoiled child that didn't get her way

still what you call blackmail is just a fact of life in the Senate, given the conditions. In the end some things were sacrificed for the momement to get the bulk of what was needed accomplished.

[Moochy]

35. Ah the NEO-LIBERAL appeal to "reason": You are a spoiled child.

Lieberman running things is A-OK in the hype man's playbook. GOOO DEMS!!!!111 GO momement !!!

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

39. And you are a shill with a clear agenda.

Is the thread locked yet? Mission accomplished yet?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

42. I need to get you a mirror for Christmas

:rofl:

[Moochy]

43. Keep it up

This thread that you disapprove of is not locked yet!

[niceypoo]

45. You have has deteriorated into pure mindlessness

...over the last couple of days. Obviously you are no longer able to present your positions on any intellectual level.

Congratulations.

[NJmaverick]

46. In football it's known as playing down to the level of the competition

If you and your fellow cyber gansters think your insults and name calling and profanity and accusations of anything and everything is even remotely intellectually, then you are sorely mistaken.

[Moochy]

47. what play in football has you spamming "old crazy lady pictures"

Is that "the blitz" ? Or is it "flooding the zone"?

Maybe it's the "nickel per post" defense?

:rofl: on edit, cyber gansters? really? ]

"Ay Oh, 11000101001010!"

[niceypoo]

49. A further degradation into the mindless abyss

After insulting everyone who disagrees with you, we now get the 'poor me, I'm a hapless victim' routine.

You are rapidly becoming the poster child for the pratfalls of mindless shilling.

[NJmaverick]

50. was "bootlickers" a term of endearment???

begone hypocrite

[Moochy]

51. I remember saying that when I added you to ignore

but your constant shillng has forced me to unignore you.

[niceypoo]

52. Bootlicker is another term for 'shill'

or sycophant.

A bootlicker is someone who automatically agrees no matter what. Does this sound like you?

[ClassWarrior]

63. Why are you ROFL? The line wasn't funny the first 318 times you used it.

NGU.

[Moochy]

53. All you can do is adhominem.

Calling me some scawy anarchist is not advancing your cause, and is just a bunch of personal attacks. The magically deleted posts that did not violate a fucking rule just means you have some fan in the mod hot tub, and shows what a ridiculous double standard applies to jingoists like you.

GO TEAM!

[Raineyb]

55. YOU are not a progressive.

Progressives are not corporate shills.

[HughMoran]

32. ad hominem

Can't you simply argue the facts?

[QC]

36. irony

[girl gone mad]

11. You, sir, are entitled to your own opinions..

but I think the parlor trick where you pull random facts out of your backside has become rather boring.

[NJmaverick]

14. I know you find facts bothersome, but I am not about to abandon them

to suit your agenda.

[Donnachaidh]

17. ka-ching!

More towards that flat screen TV...

[NJmaverick]

19. .

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[girl gone mad]

29. It's impossible to abandon that which you can never find.

[GreenArrow]

48. no, you just abandon them to suit your own agenda.

.

[havocmom]

5. Point taken

:thumbsup:

[VMI Dem]

7. Joe Lieberman and big pharma aren't the left?

[Odin2005]

9. The DLC corporatist freaks were determined to ignore us. FUCK THEM!

[niceypoo]

21. It is essentially a right wing bill

The privatization of national health care and the institutionalization of private insurance. All without a single GOP vote.

It is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism">Neoliberalism

[Armstead]

24. Exactly -- Neoliberalism is an unfortunate term because it has the wrong connotations, but...

It is actually corporate conservatism.

But the theory totally applies to this bill.

[Vidar]

31. K&R.

[Vinca]

44. Blame the left for what? Giving up everything we worked for?

The biggest problem with the so-called "reform," is that it installs big insurance as the national health care solution forever. We've always been told we couldn't get decent health care unless there was a Democrat in the White House and Dem majorities in Congress. And here we are. What a disappointment.

[Lerkfish]

57. no one could really defend the indefensible

though I was able to put a new someone on ignore who is obsessive about cartoon characters, so that's productive at least.

[treestar]

61. Talk to a Republican

They haven't vaporized.

They'll tell you.

[ClassWarrior]

62. It's pretty eye opening to see which rule-breaking posts have been deleted from this thread, and...

...and which ones haven't.

NGU.

[thelordofhell]

65. That's why we saw all those left-wing Senators vote no on the bill

Anyone?
Anyone?