If they had chosen Universal Coverage instead of whatever it is they came up with...

[WCGreen]

How would we pay for it?

I mean this idea of the mandate has a lot of people up in arms. How dare they say on the right, how can they make me get insurance...

Those on the left are concerned with making poor folk to get and pay for insurance.

But if we suddenly have Universal Care, would we pay through higher taxes, high deductibles, or would you just get the coverage and print more money? Oh wait, we can't do that. That optiojn is only for wars and bailing out failed capitalists.

To me, Universal Public Health Care would require a mandate to get and then pay for coverage. Something very much like they are proposing under this proposed plan.

I know the main sticking problem with most of us here on the left is that for profit insurance companies are being forced down our throats. And anyone who has ever dealt with a heartless company designed for one thing, to make a profit for it's investors, know this isn't the greatest way to administer health care.

In a alternative universe where we had a semblance of sense and sensibility, how would we pay for Universal Coverage? How would we administer it? If we expanded medicare there would be insurance still involved. Would the gov provide a basic package and would we could then pay for better coverage.

Oh well...

Just some stuff to mull over.

[pocoloco]

1. How the fuck do you pay for two unnecessary wars?

Which would you choose??

[LastNaturalist]

2. One unnecessary war....

One necessary war, that has been fought wrong.

[lunatica]

6. Actually it's two unnecessary wars

Both of the wars are supposedly on Terrorism. No country or government has the franchise on that 'ism'. If the US wants to go after a group of people who are from different countries and who fight their cause by covert acts of terrorism perpetrated on civilians and on the symbols of that country, such as Embassies and the military machines the way to go after them is to treat their actions as international crimes.

And Bush went to war on Terrorism only as a guise. Their real motivation for both wars was to go after Iraq's oil and to control the flow of oil in Afghanistan. There were other reasons and all of them were economic. To continue making obscene profits by selling weapons to all sides of world conflicts and to control the natural resources wherever possible.

The truth is very ugly and anyone who believes the propaganda in spite of the truth being glaringly out there is allowing themselves to be manipulated by a government that represents only American for profit interests.

[Jamastiene]

18. Go ahead and make that three unnecessary wars

Pakistan is a ruse. The plan to "work with Pakistan" to fight al Qaeda is a really black op just to destabilize that country. What better way to destabilize a country than to draw them into a war?

What will happen is there will be a falling out with the leader of Pakistan in the near future and they'll be declared another rogue state. Then the actual plans for war against Pakistan will be revealed to the American people.

It is becoming a VERY predictable pattern.

[tekisui]

8. Riiiiiight.

[T Wolf]

3. The mandate should be income-related taxes. The medical care should be complete and without

all the paperwork that the corps use to deny paying for much of what you paid to have covered. Supposedly, a non-profit, govt-run system would not do that.

There is an enormous difference between medical care as provided in every other civilized nation and the atrocity that is being forced on us.

[polpilot]

5. Once the U.S. becomes 'civilized' then we'll have healthcare.

So...let's work on that. 1st step: Stay the fuck out of countries we're illegally occupying.

[Armstead]

4. Nobody is really suggesting free healthcare -- It's more about social insurance

The real goal should be universal coverage supported by everyone, based on what is affordable to their income.

Same basic idea as taxes and Social Security, and the health systems of many other countries.

The problem that many of us have with the current system -- and this bill -- is that the mandates are for private insurance companies, rather than a true public insurance program.

[Jamastiene]

7. Make it a War on Illness and let military doctors treat us all. n/t

[liberalmuse]

10. Post of the day.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[lunatica]

9. The same way Social Security is paid

The same way we pay for our police force, our firefighters, our teachers in our public schools, our roads, our libraries, the military, our space program and our infrastructure. The same way we pay for the health insurance for our representatives and for their salaries, their housing and the same way we pay for Airforce One, our President's White House, his trips his security and his family's security.

The same way we pay for social programs that help those who are in need. The same way we pay for our veterans administration.

Oh! and the same way we pay to bail out failed and crime ridden banks and credit card companies.

I'd like for my taxes to go to making all Americans safe and healthy and able to have the basic human right of shelter, food, health and education.

We're not inventing the wheel here. Nor are we inventing fire. It's all been done successfully.

[WCGreen]

11. Just askin' a question....

I thought a progressive income tax would be the best way to pay for it...

That is what would be needed to work.

[lunatica]

14. You idea of a progressive income tax is excellent

I took out the sentence I think makes it look like I'm attacking you.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. The point being that everyone who is working will be FORCED, MANDATED to PAY

Mandates in and of themselves are not the problem. The problem is that this bill institutionalizes the useless revenue extraction by the for-profit insurance companies. These companies do NOT perform any sort of health care, they simply transfer funds from health care consumers to health care providers, and extract huge sums for doing so. They have become an institutionalized rentier class and have bought legislature votes to lock in their rent extraction activities. Mandates are not the problem. There are multiple examples of universal mandate systems that are good systems, unfortunately we will likely not be one of them.

[Vinca]

12. Taxes. Did you know Canada has a budget in surplus?

[Oregone]

13. Magic wishful thinking

Because wouldn't it be awful to see a government service paid for with progressive taxation based on income.

Dollar for dollar you may just get more benefit than what you are paying to drop bombs on Afghans

[Blue_In_AK]

15. I personally would rather pay taxes to the government

for a government-run plan than give my money to for-profit insurance companies. That's just me.

[donheld]

16. Let you pay for it

[TheBigotBasher]

17. Health care in the UK

is (largely) free at the point of use, paid for out of general taxation. There are no charges or co-pays, except for a relatively small prescription charge of £7 ($10) for admin costs. There are NO hospital co-pays.

Dentistry and optical care are the exceptions. If you work you have to pay and most dentists are a mix of NHS and private and will do combo opps. For example nhs tooth extraction and a white (private) filling instead of a metal one.

If you are on benefits, are a child, or elderly, eye tests are free. £10 ($15) otherwise. With a voucher for spectacle costs. The NHS used to supply glasses but people, especially kids hated them. So they replaced the glasses with vouchers. Now the NHS glasses are a bit of a niche fashion market.