The only way we get anything is if we work together... Purity tests are for losers

[Peacetrain]

The republicans can get by with purity tests better than we can, and even they will fail.

You may not like me, and I may not like you.. But I dislike THEM the republicans a whole lot more.

But I am not a socialist, I am not a communist, I am not a green, I am not a progressive, I am not a blue dog... I am a liberal Democrat.

But I do not automatically dismiss everything you say because you are a socialist, a communist, a green a progressive a blue dog..

Because I need you.

I am not so pure in my ideology that I can have the luxury of dismissing people because I do not agree with 100% of everything they say.

[NJmaverick]

1. We are all in this battle together and we need to stick together

divided we fall.

[enid602]

2. purity

Where can I get my Democratic Party purity ring? I´ll pay $20 for one!

[Xipe Totec]

8. You can get the 95% pure ring for $10 n/t

[Enrique]

3. the public option was a compromise

if anyone was a purist, they wouldn't support the public option. Very few demanded single payer, though most of us wanted it.

[ibegurpard]

4. yup

they put a compromise on the table at the start and were willing to throw it out the window first as well.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kestrel91316]

6. Use of the term "purity test" with respect to Democrats is in itself

unnecessarily inflammatory and divisive.

Just sayin'........

Reasonable people can agree to disagree, but throwing around RW buzzwords is unreasonable.

And I'm saying this, not knowing at this moment whether or not you support Obama these days.

[HopeOverFear]

7. well said, Peacetrain

[whatchamacallit]

9. I don't care to "win" if I have to sacrifice my beliefs and principles to do so. (n/t)

[Better Today]

10. While I agree with the idea that we shouldn't have anything like a purity test,

I am at this point thinking SOMETHING needs to allow us to have some minimal required expectation from a person taking our contributions directly (which we can control) or indirectly (thru DNC, etal). For example, whether someone is personally anti-choice or pro-choice, they shouldn't be a Dem unless they agree to not voting for stricter right's for women's choice.

But then I see that as being a form of purity test, which I disagree with.

There's a gosh awful catch 22 going on internally for me these days on this subject.

[POAS]

11. Nice post PT, kicked and rec'd

It's unfortunate your message will go unheeded.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. Right there with ya. K&R

:thumbsup:

[bvar22]

13. "If we work together AND do everythig MY way."

When was thew last time this administration moved to the Left on ANT issue?

When was the FIRST time?

"Compromise" if just peachy when YOU get EVERYTHING and we get nothing.

Your post is simply another form of "Purism".

[whatchamacallit]

14. +1

[billh58]

17. And your post

is...? :shrug:

[bvar22]

28. "Purist" doesn't bother me.

Reach for the Stars, but accept pragmatism as a last resort.
When ALL you reach for is "Pragmatism" the inevitable results is sliding to The Right.

If YOU want to call ME a Purist for fighting for THESE principles, then I gladly accept the LABEL.

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.
---FDR's Economic Bill of Rights

Tell me please:
On WHAT issue will a "pragmatist" take a STAND?

[billh58]

29. And what, pray tell,

leads you to believe that ALL Liberal Democrats do not want these same things? Does it somehow make you feel superior to smugly believe that only a few "Progressives" have been working toward these goals?

Does slinging around labels like "purist," or "pragmatist" make our collective goals any easier to accomplish? Ever read Don Quixote? Did it ever dawn on you that the Democratic Party has always had both passionate dreamers, AND pragmatic realists? How do you think the Labor and Civil Rights movements came as far as they did -- beginning with FDR's New Deal?

Do you actually believe that ALL of FDR's New Deal aspirations were totally accomplished during his time in office? He began a process that lasted almost half a century, and the Neoconservatives have been hard at work attempting to dismantle it for the past three decades. We now have an opportunity begin a process of not only re-building a better "New Deal," but of making those gains a lasting legacy.

I was working hard to complete some of the initiatives of the New Deal when I first became politically active over 40 years ago. So was LBJ, JFK, RFK, and MLK, along with many other determined and socially aware Democrats. Because of my long experience with the social and political process in this country, I don't take being called a "pragmatist" anywhere near to being the insult that you intend it to be.

I am proud to be a member of just one generation of Americans (out of eight, so far) who has contributed to our country's social, economic, and civil progress. I welcome every American's help and participation in furthering that march toward an ever elusive utopia. In the meantime, I will settle for any, and every, literal windmill that we topple.

[bvar22]

31. The current leadership of the Democratic Party...

and his "Centrist" supporters are definitely NOT fighting for these goals.

In case you missed it, there is only one consistent unifying everything they have done so far:
Increasing the PROFITS of their Big Corporate Donors.
For evidence, lets look at their record so far and use it to determine a unifying theme:

*WARS fully funded and EXPANDING. Bill sent to our children…...Mission Accomplished !

*Trillion Dollars given to friends and campaign contributors on Wall Street. No Strings Attached...Mission Accomplished!

*Military Spending INCREASED....Mission Accomplished!

*Trillion+ Dollars given to the Health Insurance Industry. Easily Avoidable, symbolic only strings attached....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Force all Americans to buy invisible products from For Profit Corporations who produce nothing tangible and create no wealth.....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Kill the possibility for a REAL "Public Option" or REAL Universal Health Care for at least another generation, and begin the “Entitlement Reform” defunding of Medicare (-$500 Billion)....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Block ANY REAL re-regulation of BIG BANKS and Credit Cards....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the Bush War Criminals and Torturers from JUSTICE....Mission Accomplished.

*Throw the GBLTs under the bus and expand "faith based" initiatives....Mission Accomplished!

*Reinforce the worst Police State provisions of the Patriot Act....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the very richest. Tell the Working Class that they CAN WILL compete with 3rd World Slave Labor for their jobs.....Mission Accomplished!

*EFCA (Employee Free Choice Act) killed in the crib....Mission Accomplished!

*More Anti-LABOR "Free Trade"....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Jobless Recovery....Mission Accomplished

*The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party SHUT OUT of the Obama Administration…...Mission Accomplished!

*Accelerate the destruction of Public Education...Mission Accomplished!

*Bury next generation under such a debt burden that they will never be able to afford any social or economic programs that will benefit their Working Class....Mission Accomplished.


After all the bullshit and rhetoric, the truth is what is left.
"You will know them by their work."

[TheBigotBasher]

33. Well said.

I do not blame the President for this, but the militant Republican tendency operating inside of the Democratic Party have been able to get away with demanding their agenda, because there is no consequence for doing so.

There is no point in blaming the GOP. Fuck them they are the opposition. Militant Republicans (they are not "moderate dems") are betraying the very people that elected them.

[billh58]

34. Wow!

You sound as if you spend more time looking for fault among those who are on your side, and being angry, than you do on working to find solutions. Do you sincerely believe that because the "leadership" is not fulfilling all of your expectations, we should all just give up and go eat worms? Incidentally, you answered none of my questions with your latest response -- you just spouted more unhelpful vitriol.

Do you really believe that attacking Democrats (as weak as they may be) and helping Neoconservative Republicans gain traction is a better approach than looking for Democratic solutions? Do you believe that any of your "wish list" items would have been accomplished by now under a McCain/Palin, or a Kucinich/??? <snort> administration? Do you believe that our international reputation would have improved as it has, or that HCR would even be on the table under a Neoconservative cabal?

And, fwiw, many of your bullet points are subjective interpretations of an unrealistic "wish list" that do not appear anywhere in the Democratic Party Platform, and are not politically achievable at this moment in time -- by anyone. President Obama and his administration are a far cry from the "evil empire" that you and others are attempting to portray them as. Thankfully, you and your ilk are among the 3% minority of voting Democrats who would divide our Party for idealism and little more.

Good luck with your destructive approach of attacking Democrats, and when you're ready to work with the rest of us who see a need to continue the good fight rather than just piss and moan, or exhibit immature anger in order to gain attention, we'll be here.

In the meantime, Happy Holidays to you and yours...;-)

[JoeyT]

36. See, you're using the elitist liberal definition of the word "compromise".

Whereas conservatives think the word means "I get everything I want and you get nothing."
Then they congratulate themselves on being so good at compromisification.

By conservative I mean all of them. Blue dogs included.

[Hydra]

15. The dismissal is coming from the people who don't want to move forward

And if they want the world to stay the way it is, they can feel free to enjoy it- outside of our party.

We're the party that works toward a better world, and not just for the chosen few at the top. If that's "too difficult" and "not politically workable," maybe they need to look at women's sufferage and how far a long shot that was.

[mitchtv]

16. unless my candidate supports full marriage equality

you can count me out. No more of this ersatz "support" from Dems

[Nite Owl]

18. You are right in that the point is to

compromise but those on the left are the ones who have done all the compromising. The purity test is on the right wing conservadems, they are the ones who want to make this fail.


Compromise: a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/compromise

[TheBigotBasher]

27. You have this right

It is not the Democratic members of the Democratic Party that have been demanding purity, it has been the Bush Dog Democrats who have now found the power of blackmail to not only get whatever they want, they have broken key Democratic principles just because they can.

Rights for women
Support for some form of universal health care
Support for a jobs package to get the economy out of the mess it is in.

Now these Bush Dog Democrats are now spinelessly bunching up together to threaten the whole US Government if they do not get their way and block any increase in borrowing limits. What do they want for their pieces of silver? They want to cut back Social Security and benefits for the low income of America.

These people are supposed to be members of the Democratic Party. They were elected to the Senate on a Democratic platform. This is not about a purity test this is about them acting as a militant wing of the Republican Party within the Democratic Party. They are a cancer.

[billh58]

35. +100 n/t

[quaker bill]

19. K&R

[TheKentuckian]

20. What issues are Nelson, Lieberman, and Co asked to compromise on?

It seems their "compromises" are to simply to entertain actually doing stuff in our platform.

You can only complain about compromise when you expect it from all concerned. The left is called uncompromising but reality is that the left is forced to make the concessions, let's not even pretend that this effort even started out in leftwing nirvana. I have been consistent on saying single payer was not doable and stated over and over that a public program was pushing the envelope. One would think that serious market based reforms would be a rational compromise.

[Cha]

26. I don't want to be like them. There's always

going to be uncompromising assholes who are in it for themselves.

[TheKentuckian]

37. I don't want to be like them either and that includes knuckling under

to them to the point that they effectively get their way and our legislation looks more and more like they wrote it.

There is always the potential for too much of a good thing. How far can we compromise and still have a result that is the fruit of the idea we started with?

What is the result of bending over backwards for uncompromising and compromised assholes, Cha?

[Jamastiene]

21. "Don't worry about the left."

That told us all we needed to know.

[ima_sinnic]

22. unrecced and dismissed for obsession with labels & phrase "purity test"

funny how the corporate suck-asses want to act all "accepting" of "those others," if only those others would agree to their terms.

The Democratic Party has become the Wal-Mart of the political world--full of cheap shit, shitting on the workers, screwing the suppliers, hoarding the gold like Scrooge McDuck in his vault while passing out smiley faces and screaming cheap-ass meaningless slogans about "lower prices" for getting screwed. Meanwhile, their "competitors," the Republicans, are like Best Buy--a slightly more expensive version of the same worthless shit.

I'm not buying from either anymore.

[depakid]

23. Here's news- by pandering to the right & corrupt corporate interests Democrats are repeatedly losers

while Republicans- odious as they are, continue to win policy fights even while they're ostensibly out of power!

Now, what's wrong with that picture?

[dfgrbac]

24. Are you really a "liberal Democrat"?

If you are, you have a lot of socialist in you.

By the way, socialist means "for the people". It does not mean a type of government - really.

Socialism can be defined in multiple ways, but it comes down to being an economy that provides for the general population's needs.

As Wikipedia says:

Most socialists share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through exploitation, creates an unequal society, does not provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximize their potentialities<4> and does not utilize technology and resources to their maximum potential nor in the interests of the public.<5>

[Armstead]

25. Come together...Purity tests for losers? I sense cognitive dissonance here

[Clio the Leo]

30. "We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes"

It is that fundamental belief -- It is that fundamental belief: I am my brother’s keeper. I am my sister’s keeper that makes this country work. It’s what allows us to pursue our individual dreams and yet still come together as one American family.

E pluribus unum: "Out of many, one."

Now even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us -- the spin masters, the negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of "anything goes." Well, I say to them tonight, there is not a liberal America and a conservative America -- there is the United States of America. There is not a Black America and a White America and Latino America and Asian America -- there’s the United States of America.

The pundits, the pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an "awesome God" in the Blue States, and we don’t like federal agents poking around in our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and yes, we’ve got some gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

In the end -- In the end -- In the end, that’s what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or do we participate in a politics of hope?

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/barackobama2004dnc.htm

It is what hooked us all those years ago ..... yet how quickly we forget ..... well, I shouldn't speak for everyone. I suppose there are some among us who supported Barack Obama because of his infamous claims that he would turn the country into a Progressive Utopia. (heh.)

[IndianaGreen]

32. Well, Peacetrain, I rec your thread just on general principle

I am sure that we will find common ground down the road.

[mmonk]

38. I wish those that set policy felt the same way. They more often

than not remind me they do not by explicitly saying so.

[freddie mertz]

39. K & R. I hope everyone who rec'd it will READ it and renounce the strategy of division

We have seen here as of late.

Start by working hard to improve the bill during reconciliation.